Dharma only: what do you think about this video?

[no-body]

There has been cross over between mystical states and psychoactives since the beginning of time. I don't know if it really means anything other than that it is activating the same areas of the brain.

The stuff about DMT being released in the brain when we die is just a theory by the way along with it playing a key in meditation and dreaming. But it seems plausible. Near death experiences are probably some kind of chemical(s) being released.

 

[ratikala]

Hi ratikala , it's okay

in the video the guy talks about something IT, that knows everything, he often repeats it that it knows everything and it wants to forget because it gets boring and it is JOY for it to remember again, sounds to me like Brahman playing hide and seek with himself for his own joy, I hope that makes sense somehow, it was difficult for me to understand what he was saying lol

perfect sence .yes I heard the same and it makes sence .

a question aside , have you ever read the bardo thodol ?

 

[apophenia]

I have used DMT (and various other sacraments).

Ignorance is god's best trick. Delusion is also called 'creation'.

God is not all purity and love and so forth. God is also crazy. Conscious eternity is almost unbearable.Conscious ignorance is equally unbearable.

This world of suffering and ignorance is the cross to which god has nailed ITself. IT has no choice. IT is brilliant, all-knowing and yet caught in the dual impossibilities of existence and non-existence.

IT suffers immaculately. When IT is not lost in the delusion (universe/creation) IT experiences ITself as widom-display beyond description. The display is intensely beautiful/evil - both.

Even just trying to say this clearly, I am beginning to trip again... (thyroid rushes, bruxism, pupil dilation, tremors,

over and out ...

 

[apophenia]

oooeee

just making myself a cup of tea now, getting ready to do some gardening.

ignorance is an activity. it takes all our time and energy . it IS all our time and energy.

mmmm. sipping tea.

asserting my name, location and purpose.

stabilising.

if you want to function as a normal human, DON'T take DMT.

being a 'normal human' is the first thing to go .... and you will never quite believe in it again, even if you want to (and you do want to)

be very serious in asking yourself this - do you want the sense of being an ordinary human ?

If yes, leave the sacraments alone. You can't unscramble eggs. stick to mundane religion and meditation, which won't actually reveal the truth (obviously), but will instead cultivate a mystic foxhole of relative peace.


IT went to a lot of trouble to configure you as IT's karmaflage. Perthaps you should humbly accept what IT wants.

 

[DanielR]

perfect sence .yes I heard the same and it makes sence .

a question aside , have you ever read the bardo thodol ?

hi no I haven't it's the tibetan book of the dead, isn't it?? Are you a Tibetan buddhist maybe? I just watched Enter the Void, it deals with this subject, I would recommend it!

 

[DanielR]

oooeee

just making myself a cup of tea now, getting ready to do some gardening.

ignorance is an activity. it takes all our time and energy . it IS all our time and energy.

mmmm. sipping tea.

asserting my name, location and purpose.

stabilising.

if you want to function as a normal human, DON'T take DMT.

being a 'normal human' is the first thing to go .... and you will never quite believe in it again, even if you want to (and you do want to)

be very serious in asking yourself this - do you want the sense of being an ordinary human ?

If yes, leave the sacraments alone. You can't unscramble eggs. stick to mundane religion and meditation, which won't actually reveal the truth (obviously), but will instead cultivate a mystic foxhole of relative peace.


IT went to a lot of trouble to configure you as IT's karmaflage. Perthaps you should humbly accept what IT wants.

interesting posts, thank you

I think I would be too scared to try a psychedelic, you're right I'm gonna stick with meditation

 

[ratikala]

hi no I haven't it's the tibetan book of the dead, isn't it?? Are you a Tibetan buddhist maybe? I just watched Enter the Void, it deals with this subject, I would recommend it!

dear daniel ,

yes tibetan book of the dead ,

yes , I studied tibetan buddhism for many years

I would love to know your impressions from reading barbo thodol , I wont say any more , let us know what you think ?

I will look up enter the void and report back

 

[ratikala]

dear daniel ,

I just found a trailer for it ,

no I am not sure it is good to wach another persons inturpretation plus artistic licence ?

not for me anyway !

 

[ratikala]

dear apophenia ,

oooeee

if you want to function as a normal human, DON'T take DMT.

being a 'normal human' is the first thing to go .... and you will never quite believe in it again, even if you want to (and you do want to)



IT went to a lot of trouble to configure you as IT's karmaflage. Perthaps you should humbly accept what IT wants.

excuse my asking , did you have any sence of this before taking dmt ?

may be a sence of what lay beyond illusion ?

just a tiny sence that dmt might have expanded upon ?

I'll explain my curiosity if you wish

many thanks

 

[apophenia]

Before using psychedelics, I had already learned about inducing altered states naturally. I often meditated by the river after school and entered trance states which included major perceptual changes (like watching the trees breathing and morphing in shape, and seeing displays of colours and patterns in the sky).I was fascinated by the fact that if I practiced sky-gazing, an extraordinary animated lotus shape would appear, which was mesmerising.

This process was initiated spontaneously when I was about 11 years old. I was walking across the school playground and suddenly became awake in a way I had never before experienced. I was fully conscious of the depth of my mind, and aware of myself as 'presence' rather than just being involved in senses and thinking. It was an experience of samadhi whilst fully in the body.

Prior to that, when very young, I had regular experiences of being contacted by non-humans. My mother reminded me when I was about 30 that for a year or so from age 2-3 I woke her every night because beings from space wanted to 'take me back into the sky again'. That was around 1957, and I had not been exposed to television or movies at that time. My very first memory of this life is floating in orbit above the earth.

The first time I used psilocybe mushrooms (and BTW psilocybin is 4-hydroxy DMT) I had out-of-body encounters with buddhas who explained abidharma to me. I was a teenager and had not encountered the abidharma teachings prior to this.

 

[ratikala]

dear apophenia ,

Before using psychedelics, I had already learned about inducing altered states naturally.

thankyou for your reply , personaly I have never wanted to touch psychedelics , I think when young I was quite capable of doing similar things , I thought everyone experienced these things , apparently they dont , I think my mother thought I was a little crazy so I just learned to keep quiet about it ,

This process was initiated spontaneously when I was about 11 years old. I was walking across the school playground and suddenly became awake in a way I had never before experienced. I was fully conscious of the depth of my mind, and aware of myself as 'presence' rather than just being involved in senses and thinking. It was an experience of samadhi whilst fully in the body.

so I have become semi sceptical of my own experiences , but then as you say
"It was an experience of samadhi whilst fully in the body" but still I wonder if samadhi is more than that experience ? maybe yes , maybe no , one day I will find out .
I still have simmilar experiences but I attatch nothing to them they are just there , and very much colour my understanding allthough I try not to let them do so ,

Prior to that, when very young, I had regular experiences of being contacted by non-humans. My mother reminded me when I was about 30 that for a year or so from age 2-3 I woke her every night because beings from space wanted to 'take me back into the sky again'. That was around 1957, and I had not been exposed to television or movies at that time. My very first memory of this life is floating in orbit above the earth.

my mother never comments , but my grandmother understood without much being said , I knew that she knew things it is a shame that she is no longer with us I would love to discuss some things with her now , but then on the otherhand do I need to ?

The first time I used psilocybe mushrooms (and BTW psilocybin is 4-hydroxy DMT) I had out-of-body encounters with buddhas who explained abidharma to me. I was a teenager and had not encountered the abidharma teachings prior to this.

if it is not too much to ask , can you explain this first impression and understanding before meeting the teachings , how you perceived it ?

many thanks ,

 

[apophenia]

if it is not too much to ask , can you explain this first impression and understanding before meeting the teachings , how you perceived it ?

many thanks ,

I'm prepared to describe it as best I can. But tonight I need to get a lot of sleep because my upstairs neighbors had a noisy late party last night, until I asked them to quiet down at 3am. So I will respond tomorrow, your reply is interesting and I'm happy to continue the conversation.

I'm off to dreamland now - my daily natural dose of DMT and related substances .

 

[Surya Deva]

Ive not taken many drugs, the occasional dabble with my friends, but I have found interestingly I don't get affected by them all that much. My friends are surprised how I have taken lines of cocaine, speed, pills and not been affected. Ive kind of just looked up at them a bit bemused, waiting for something to happen and nothing happens. So I have got this reputation among my friends of being immune to drugs.

However, there is one drug I took that really did give me a profound experience, mushrooms, liberty caps. I took about 80 of them to get an effect. The experience I had is easily one of the most spiritual experiences Ive ever had in my life. I did not really experience any strong hallucinations(pretty mild) but I understood a lot about what I had previously read and practiced in spiritual traditions. When on the effects of the mushroom I tried all the spiritual exercises I had learned: Asanas, Qiqong, mantras and meditation, and I GOT IT, I completely got why these exercises were done. I literally felt the prana flowing in my body during the asanas and the Qiqong, I literally felt the sound vibrations resonate through my entire body and around me during the OM chanting, and I literally felt like my concentration power had become like a lazer and was peircing through the layers of unconscious, putting me in a very deep restful state(but not samadhi) Another interesting result was that the day after I was able to look at every individual that passed me by like they were their own universe, everybody became so fascinating, everybody had a history, a presence, a character and I could accept everybody without judgement.

 

[SageTree]

I don't feel I can share my experiences with psychedelics without breaking rules.

Sorry.

This one of my favourite rules. :/
But I guess I understand why it exists on here.

 

[TenjikuZero]

This is an interesting Video, and reminded me of one of the important teachings of Patanjali in his Yoga Sutras

Patanjali's Yoga Sutras 4.1

janma osadhi mantra tapah samadhi jah siddhyayah

The subtler attainments come with birth or are attained through herbs, mantra, austerities or concentration(meditation).

Five ways to thin the veil: Five methods are mentioned by which that barrier or veil of ignorance (2.3) is thinned, or eventually removed entirely, allowing Self-realization (1.3) and liberation (4.26). Here's the five ways of thinning the veil:

1. Birth (janman): Some rare ones are born with a natural ability to drop the veil between the conscious and unconscious. Recall that in sutras 1.19-1.20, two kinds of people were mentioned. First were those who naturally are predisposed by virtue of having attained a high level of experience in a previous life, though that experience was not complete. Second, were those who (like most of us) need to follow a path of faith, energy, memory, concentration, and knowledge. Here, in this part of the sutra, it is simply being acknowledged that some experience beyond the barrier or veil by virtue of birth.

1. Herbs (ausadhi): There is said to be an ancient elixir that when ingested, breaks down the barrier. It is also said to be an inner elixir, in the subtle aspect of our own being. At a more surface level, we are all familiar with the way in which various drugs or chemicals break down the barrier between conscious and unconscious. Throughout spiritual and religious history of humanity, herbs have been used responsibly in this way by many cultures. While we are not suggesting drug use here as a means to spirituality, it would not be complete that it not be mentioned as one of the ways people can remove the barrier between conscious and unconscious. In light of herbs as a means of removing the barrier, it is imperative to remember that the foundation principles are of non-attachment and attaining a natural state of stable tranquility (1.12-1.16). The way in which the ancients used such herbs is vastly different from drug abuse and addiction

1. Mantra: Here, the use of mantra goes beyond being just a religious affirmation or prayer, however pleasant and useful that may be. The constant repetition or awareness of mantra is like the persistent tapping, tapping, tapping on a closed door. Eventually the door is open. The mantra goes further, not only opening the door, but also becoming a guide to the deepest, subtlest, absolute reality from which it arose in the first place. For many people, mantra is a very comfortable means of gradually, gently thinning that barrier or veil between the known and unknown.

1. Training senses (tapas): It seems that we humans are ever engaged in our relationship with the external world, except when we lose consciousness completely in sleep. Tapas means training the senses, and this can be done gently in daily life, or it can be done with great intensity through quite austere practices. The principle is that, if you gently train your senses, your attention will naturally, gently come inward. If you not only train your senses, but strongly restrict the engagement of the senses, attention will decidedly come inward. One is the gentle way, while one is living an active life in the world. The other extreme is for those who have renounced the world and are willing to suffer any consequence to substantially speed up the process of going inward to attain direct experience.
   

1. Concentration (samadhi): The path of samadhi is well outlined in the Yoga Sutras, and in particular, is explained in the eight rungs of Ashtanga Yoga (2.29). Systematically, step after step, the veils are encountered, explored, pierced, and gone beyond, one after the other. Samyama is the three part process of dharana (concentration), dhyana (meditation), and samadhi taken together. When the samadhi of samyama is available, that is the finer tool (3.4-3.6) for piercing the subtler veils that cloud (1.4) the center of consciousness (1.3).

source
Yoga Sutras of Patanjali 4.1-4.3: Means of attaining experience

Patanjali also goes onto say that the meditative path is the one not fraught with dangers sometimes found in the other paths.

 

[TenjikuZero]

I have never taken mind-altering Substances, but the Subject of DMT and the DMT containing plant "Ayahuasca" of the Amazonian people has always been one of interest to me.

For those interested in this Subject, please check out the "God molecule" and the ", "The cosmic serpent: Dna and the origins of knowledge". They are pretty good and approach this subject from a scientific perspective. Furthermore the Cosmic serpent book also extensively investigates the similarities between these experiences, and the Hindu philosophies.

apophenia, Thank you for sharing your experiences. The moment I saw that Avatar if yours I knew that it was an artist's rendering of an Ayahuasca(DMT) induced vision.(Am I correct in my assumption?). Even though I have not partaken of that substance, I have researched a bit into this topic and the avatar of yours seems to be very similar in character/type to the other Shamanic visions shared by those who drink Ayahuasca(DMT).

Just like some of you and Ratikala, I too have had some such experiences starting from my childhood(around 10 or 11)only much later...when I had access to textbooks and resources a 10 year old never had; i realized that these experiences are categorized as common shamanic experiences. (Out of body experiences identical to some shamanic literature I later read about in my 20s). I do not want to delve into this too much; but suffice to say that my experiences left me with a firm conviction that the time and space we exist in is by no means the only one; and that time is definitely not linear. Furthermore the notion that there is a set/definite future is also belied by some of my experiences...the furture branches into infinite branches every instant...

As I grew up I realized that Both Astrophysics (Quantum mechanics/superstrings theory/M-theory) and Advaita Vedanta pretty much speak about this very thing. Thus my natural inclination towards the Advaitic and scientific paths.I am of the view that they speak of the very same things. Buddhism too. No.not the "no self" Buddhism which has become so popular after the passing of the Buddha..but Buddhism of the "not self" variety. Last but not the least, such experience in my childhood had left me with some permanent changes...ones of which is that every dream I have from the time I was about 11 has been a Lucid Dream. I have never had a non-lucid dream for more than a decade and a half. A lucid dream where the notions of reality themselves are in question..and a dream that can be re-run again and again..and a dream where our dreaming self can making rational decisions..change them if they do not work....have arguments about the nature of reality...restart the dream from a "save point" as many times as we like till we get the desired dream result.... make me think that what we think of as 'waking state" is probably not a true "waking state"...The time is short and the subject is definitely vast and I hope one day we can even realize some of it.

please share your thoughts if you will, especially apophenia; I would love to hear about your DMT induced travels if you do not mind sharing

 

[SageTree]

please share your thoughts if you will, especially apophenia; I would love to hear about your DMT induced travels if you do not mind sharing

Sadly this sort of talking treads painfully close to the rules of not endorsing illegal activities.

Not my favourite rule as it limits what I am able to express about my Self's journey.

Just mentioning because the thread has already been under review for said reasons already.

Tread carefully and wisely in the discussion.

 

[apophenia]

Sadly this sort of talking treads painfully close to the rules of not endorsing illegal activities.

Not my favourite rule as it limits what I am able to express about my Self's journey.

Just mentioning because the thread has already been under review for said reasons already.

Tread carefully and wisely in the discussion.

You may notice I have not responded any further. The reason for this is not just because Rule 6 suggests not to, it is because I do not want to encourage anyone to use psychedelics.

Most comments about these substances are either from those who believe that psychedelics are a pretty much guaranteed way to experience spiritual insight, or thse who believe they are a dangerous scourge.

My experience tells me that there is no predictable outcome, and unfortunately many people are more damaged than enlightened. And of those who are not damaged by the experience, most have insights which disappear like the morning mists. A few have a profoundly good and enduring experience, and the sense to not attempt to repeat it.

Generally speaking, with the wisdom of hindsight, I would say that use of these substances by teenagers and young adults is a bad idea, unless it happens in the context of a culture where this experience is familiar and accepted. Most of those cultures have been destroyed by or absorbed into the modern world and transformed (in my opinion to everyone's detriment generally).

I have observed people whose psyches were a little unstable become much more unstable. There is no institution in our society which can guide, or assist those who experience difficulties. The casual observer or interested reader cannot possibly grasp how deeplly affecting such experiences are, the kind of directions they can take.

I have experienced hellish states on occasions. My story isn't one of exclusively positive and valuable experiences by any means. Even during periods when I was enthusiastic about these experiences, I was also appalled at times by the stupidity and recklessness and insensitivity of many users of these substances. We may have shining lights like McKenna and Alan Watts, but there are also cases like Charles Manson, proving that it's not always love and light by any means.

In 2008 Albert Hofmann, who first synthesised LSD, died. He had been lobbying the US government for many decades to establish a center for research into psychedelic compounds. This will probably never happen in our lifetime, which is a great shame. Ann Shulgin is the wife of Alexander Shulgin, a famous chemist responsible for synthesising hundreds of new psychedelic compounds. She works, illegally, in the field of MDMA-assisted therapy. Her results with treatment of various conditions, most notably PTSD, have been very impressive. This was mentioned in an article in Scientific American, which noted that cases had been completely resolved in a matter of hours. This is as much a testimony to her sensitivity and skill as it is to the potential of such compounds. This is the crucial point. My observation of the recreational use of MDMA (ecstacy) leads me to believe that it is generally not worth the risk people take with their physical and mental health, because the experience is handled in such a shallow, even stupid, way. Most users of these substances really just want their dance club experience enhanced, and any mind expanding or insight inducing effects are incidental and very short-lived.

Without a shamanic tradition to guide people, the experience is unpredictable, chaotic and often detrimental. So my advice in general is don't indulge in mind-altering substances.

So on reflection I wish I had not posted my remarks in this thread, because I realise that it could encourage very unwise experimentation from people who have no guidance, or knowledge, or background in meditative practice. For that reason, I would even say that I would feel more comfortable if this thread was removed, because it could well be seen as an endorsement and encouragement by young, inexperienced and unsupported individuals who may suffer as a consequence. The psychedelic experience is not trivial, and its effects, for better or worse, can last a lifetime.

 

[SageTree]

In 2008 Albert Hofmann, who first synthesised LSD, died. He had been lobbying the US government for many decades to establish a center for research into psychedelic compounds. This will probably never happen in our lifetime, which is a great shame. Ann Shulgin is the wife of Alexander Shulgin, a famous chemist responsible for synthesising hundreds of new psychedelic compounds. She works, illegally, in the field of MDMA-assisted therapy. Her results with treatment of various conditions, most notably PTSD, have been very impressive. This was mentioned in an article in Scientific American, which noted that cases had been completely resolved in a matter of hours. This is as much a testimony to her sensitivity and skill as it is to the potential of such compounds. This is the crucial point. My observation of the recreational use of MDMA (ecstacy) leads me to believe that it is generally not worth the risk people take with their physical and mental health, because the experience is handled in such a shallow, even stupid, way. Most users of these substances really just want their dance club experience enhanced, and any mind expanding or insight inducing effects are incidental and very short-lived.

Without a shamanic tradition to guide people, the experience is unpredictable, chaotic and often detrimental. So my advice in general is don't indulge in mind-altering substances.

So on reflection I wish I had not posted my remarks in this thread, because I realise that it could encourage very unwise experimentation from people who have no guidance, or knowledge, or background in meditative practice. For that reason, I would even say that I would feel more comfortable if this thread was removed, because it could well be seen as an endorsement and encouragement by young, inexperienced and unsupported individuals who may suffer as a consequence. The psychedelic experience is not trivial, and its effects, for better or worse, can last a lifetime.

Thanks for your words, Brother.

I particularly agree with the end portion of what you wrote.

Making things taboo, just keeps them there.
Study leads to predictable ends and knowledge helps with prevention,
awareness and guidance.

In the way of your post, I have a lot more to say,
but will refrain as to not come off as misunderstood or encouraging.

However, I'm torn in wanting to add a preventative note here,
because history shows prohibition doesn't work,
and only hurts people for lack of knowing.

People, have respect for these substances. Please.

 

[Father Heathen]

I realize that this is a DIR, but I want to share a link that has a lot of info on the subject that you may find useful: Erowid