Detachment and suffering

[Trailblazer]

Stop acting like a spoiled child, Tb. Please try to forget about yourself for five minutes and go and care for your husband.

My husband is on a Covid-restricted floor that allows no visitors....
I guess you missed that part when you wee perusing this thread.

 

[osgart]

I think it's true sometimes loved ones push away those they love the most when faced with an ultimate crisis. I don't know though what the situation is you are facing.

 

[Ella S.]

The rationalist by-line is that one should recognize that your emotional turmoil is, in and of itself, not real and instead based on false judgments about "good" and "bad" born from your attachment to having the world be a certain way.

However, Chrysippus points out that this is a preventative measure and it doesn't help people who are already suffering. For that, he recommends that people go to therapy.

I'm actually not making that up. He was an ancient Greek philosopher who taught about the importance of therapy in alleviating the suffering of those with poor mental health. He even refers to it as mental health, making a passionate argument for why it should be seen as just as important as physical health and why one should consult a therapist just as they do a doctor.

I agree with Chrysippus. I'm just amazed that Chrysippus agrees with me.

 

[Trailblazer]

I just want to make it completely clear that, this is obviously based on my very limited knowledge about your situation, so if something doesn't feel or seem right for your current situation, that is most likely why, so it is purely based on what you have told me earlier and what you write here, mixed with my own interpretation.

Thanks Nimos. I don’t think it would be right for you to weigh in on what you have no knowledge of. All you know is what I have told you, but there is a lot more to the story. Of course there is also another side, my husband’s side, but I have no idea what that is since he won’t talk to me. He talked to the doctor so all I know is what the doctor told me. I asked one of his Baha’i friends to talk to him and tell me what is going on. She talked to him on the phone but never got back to me.

I think it might be ok for you to maybe get an objective point of view on it, because when you are experiencing something like this, things might not see or you might not notice things as clear as when not standing in the middle of it. So when I say that it might not be as bad as you think, I don't mean the general situation, that is obviously not good.

It is always good to get an objective point of view, and that is what I try o do by asking the doctors and nurses how he is doing and what he is doing.

But since I don't know your husbands perspective and only yours and what you are writing. I think, you have to maybe take a step back and try to look at things, a bit differently, and maybe take the bull by the horns so to speak. Because to me, it sounds like you two haven't really talked with each other for a long time, and I mean "really" talked.

That is correct Nimos, because my husband will not talk to me about his thoughts, feelings or wishes. This did not just start with this illness, it has been going on for years. You know what they say, you can’t squeeze blood out of a turnip.

But eventually it will come to that as someone will have to step in and mediate because decisions will have to be made regarding where he is going after he gets out of the hospital.

So if I were you, I would go see him and simply put it to him straight and ask him if he is interested in you coming by and visiting him or essentially having any further contact with you or if he would rather be left alone, making sure whether he have made up his mind about the situation etc. Said in another way, get some sort of closure or final conclusion.

I could not see him even if I wanted to since he is on a Covid-restricted floor that allows for no visitors. Aside from that I have no way to get to the hospital where he is located since it is not local and I cannot drive on the freeway.

You said that you don't have many people in your life, which is obviously not fun, but it is not something which can't be solved. And from how I understand it, your husband, despite you two might not have been getting along the best, he at least gave you someone. Which I could imagine is probably also why you feel down at the moment.

You are correct, I do not have many people in my life, and maybe that is one reason I don’t want to lose my husband; but it is more than that, as despite the bickering I really do love him and care about him. Unfortunately, I feel no reciprocity. I don’t think it is really rejection, it is probably because he just does not have the capacity to express love and caring and he has trust issues from his childhood. Of course I knew this for all of these years but I think I just repressed it to a certain degree so I would not feel so hurt, and because there was nothing I could do about it despite my trying to talk to him constantly.

But on the other side, again based on what you have told, maybe there weren't really a lot in the first place? If you care to be around other people, you want to be around people which you enjoy being around and makes you feel good etc. But it doesn't seem like this relationship have really offered that, but is more based on the fear of being alone, so you accept a lot of the bad things that comes with it.

Sadly, whatever there once was was gone a long time ago, 20 years ago. You are very astute Nimos, yes it was probably more based on the fear of being alone, so I accepted a lot of the bad things that comes with it. It was also that I did not want to abandon him because I knew he could not have taken care of himself if I divorced him. Unlike most couples, he said I could have everything we own if we divorced, and all he would want was enough to live on, but where would he live? I knew he could not take care of himself so I could not abandon him. Now it seems like that decision is going to be made for me.

Now I personally like being alone, I hate having people around me all the time, I don't like going on long vacations and I get bored of spending to much time around others fairly fast. Not everyone have it like that, but I know plenty of people that live alone, including people which have no children etc. and are very happy about it, because it gives freedom. I even know, yet one of them is dead now, people that were married, but didn't live together, so they had separate apartments, but whenever there were parties etc. they showed up as couple and did things together as you would expect married people to do and it worked well for them.

I also like being alone, but having been married for 37 years it is different from your situation. I have never lived alone except for one year, as before I got married I lived with my mother. I am not really alone because I have the eight cats, but it is not the same as a person.

On the other hand, for many years it has been as if he was not even here, and I only now realize that fully, now that I can think back on how it was. I was not consciously aware of how bad it was when he was here because I had to repress those feelings since it was so painful to bear. It has been particularly bad for the last two years since he started having urinary problems and the doctors could not diagnose them properly for so long. I got accustomed to hearing him complain constantly but the urologist discounted that it was anything serious so how could I know?

I think I could live alone after he passes on, or maybe I might want to get married again, but if I ever married again, it would only be for companionship, not for anything romantic. I have no interest in such a relationship.

(Continued on next post)

 

[Trailblazer]

So in your case, since you have the Bahai community or it might not even have anything to do with them, what you could do, is maybe join a group to learn to cook, gardening, paint, writing, singing, gospel if that is a Bahai thing, something with cats, whatever you think could be fun and then meet new people through that. And if you are lucky you could make some new friends.

I would be involved with the Baha’is if they were doing anything in person, but now all they have are Zoom meetings and I am not interested in those. I don’t really have any hobbies since I never had time or interest in anything but the cats and posting on forums. I guess you could say that writing is my hobby. I am still working full time and I have eight cats, so I don’t have a not of free time on my workdays.

Alternatively, you could do charity work, maybe if there is something in the community that you don't like or you know could use some help, you could start an event to do something about it and maybe some will join you, maybe from the Bahai community or just some evil atheists

and you can meet people like that. And lets be honest, there might very well be other people in similar situations which are also looking for someone to hang out with. So I wouldn't be so down about it, because there is a lot you can do fairly easy if you want to meet people and feel that is very important.

When it comes time to have to fill my time, I will think about how to, and possibly try to meet new people, but right now I am busy all the time. It is not as if I am finished with my husband’s care, as I have to figure out what will happen after he leaves the hospital, if he makes it that long.

What is happening is that he refuses to eat more than a few bites of food and he is dangerously underweight, so by refusing to eat he is hastening his own demise. He was also doing this when he was home but not to the degree that he is doing it now. The nurses will not force him to eat whereas I could convince him to eat. I feel completely helpless at a distance.

But to me, if I were you, I wouldn't spend so much time of what went wrong between you and your husband, that is what it is, and again it might sound easier than it is, but I would try to get some form of closure, you don't have to break all contact with him unless he say that this is what he want. But I don't think you will win anything from trying to keep on to something, which might not even have been there in the first place, which might only give you a "false" sense of it being there.

No, there is no point dwelling on what wet wrong as the past is the past. When I explain it it is just so other people will understand.

I know I need closure even if he does not need it but I don’t know how that will come about. I am going to have to rely upon the social workers to facilitate this.

There is no point thinking about hanging onto anything or any false sense of what is there because he is not going to live long enough to ever mend the relationship, not unless God performs a miracle. I pray for a miracle but I do not expect one.

So it might be good for you, to sit down and just try to take a step back from everything and look at it from a wider objective perspective, and try to put your personal feelings to the side for a moment and look at what options are there and simply realize that there are certain things you just have to accept for what they are, whether that is your husband's choice, that your brother might not be very nice, I mean you are not forced to keep contact with him or put anything into it. Because again, I don't think you would have a hard time finding some people to hang out with, that are looking for the same thing as you and as you said you are already used to taking care of everything, so at least that doesn't change.

Thanks Nimos, that’s is what I am trying to do, put my personal feelings to the side for now and look at what options are there for my husband when he is released from the hospital, realizing that there are certain things I just have to accept for what they are, as I cannot change my husband or my brother, they are who they are. My husband has chosen not to fight this cancer and I cannot do anything about it, so even if there was a treatment that might be effective that it is a moot point, and that is what hurts so very badly.

In all honestly, I have to say I think he is selfish to only think of himself and not of me, after I cared for him for 37 years. I am so hurt by that and that is the main reason I don’t want to talk to him, as there is nothing more to say. He is waiting to die and he 'believes' he is going to “a better place” just like all Christians and Baha’is. He lost interest in living long before this illness came on and there was nothing I could do to help him, despite my trying.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it's true sometimes loved ones push away those they love the most when faced with an ultimate crisis. I don't know though what the situation is you are facing.

That is probably true to a certain extent, but I have only done that in my mind and emotions, not in my actions towards him. He is the one who has rejected me by his actions and inaction towards me.

 

[Truthseeker]

Thanks Duane. I will keep that in my back pocket but if I listened to it right now I would just start crying again.
I cannot afford to start crying, I have too many things to tend to, and I need to be strong or I will not get through this....

Okay, I understand. I hope you listen to it sometime later when there is a better time.

 

[1213]

I explained exactly what is going on in this post to Nimos:
Detachment and suffering
....

Ok, thank you for the information. Hopefully the situation gets better.

 

[samtonga43]

I would be involved with the Baha’is if they were doing anything in person, but now all they have are Zoom meetings and I am not interested in those. I don’t really have any hobbies since I never had time or interest in anything but the cats and posting on forums. I guess you could say that writing is my hobby. I am still working full time and I have eight cats, so I don’t have a not of free time on my workdays.

When it comes time to have to fill my time, I will think about how to, and possibly try to meet new people, but right now I am busy all the time. It is not as if I am finished with my husband’s care, as I have to figure out what will happen after he leaves the hospital, if he makes it that long.

What is happening is that he refuses to eat more than a few bites of food and he is dangerously underweight, so by refusing to eat he is hastening his own demise. He was also doing this when he was home but not to the degree that he is doing it now. The nurses will not force him to eat whereas I could convince him to eat. I feel completely helpless at a distance.

No, there is no point dwelling on what wet wrong as the past is the past. When I explain it it is just so other people will understand.

I know I need closure even if he does not need it but I don’t know how that will come about. I am going to have to rely upon the social workers to facilitate this.

There is no point thinking about hanging onto anything or any false sense of what is there because he is not going to live long enough to ever mend the relationship, not unless God performs a miracle. I pray for a miracle but I do not expect one.

Thanks Nimos, that’s is what I am trying to do, put my personal feelings to the side for now and look at what options are there for my husband when he is released from the hospital, realizing that there are certain things I just have to accept for what they are, as I cannot change my husband or my brother, they are who they are. My husband has chosen not to fight this cancer and I cannot do anything about it, so even if there was a treatment that might be effective that it is a moot point, and that is what hurts so very badly.

In all honestly, I have to say I think he is selfish to only think of himself and not of me, after I cared for him for 37 years. I am so hurt by that and that is the main reason I don’t want to talk to him, as there is nothing more to say. He is waiting to die and he 'believes' he is going to “a better place” just like all Christians and Baha’is. He lost interest in living long before this illness came on and there was nothing I could do to help him, despite my trying.

If you do not visit your husband you will never know if you may have been able to convince him to eat or to help in some other way. You will have to live with this. Think carefully, Tb.

 

[Nimos]

Thanks Nimos. I don’t think it would be right for you to weigh in on what you have no knowledge of. All you know is what I have told you, but there is a lot more to the story. Of course there is also another side, my husband’s side, but I have no idea what that is since he won’t talk to me. He talked to the doctor so all I know is what the doctor told me. I asked one of his Baha’i friends to talk to him and tell me what is going on. She talked to him on the phone but never got back to me.

But couldn't you call him as well then, if it was possible for her?

You are correct, I do not have many people in my life, and maybe that is one reason I don’t want to lose my husband; but it is more than that, as despite the bickering I really do love him and care about him. Unfortunately, I feel no reciprocity. I don’t think it is really rejection, it is probably because he just does not have the capacity to express love and caring and he has trust issues from his childhood. Of course I knew this for all of these years but I think I just repressed it to a certain degree so I would not feel so hurt, and because there was nothing I could do about it despite my trying to talk to him constantly.

I understand, but I don't assume that he is interested in hurting you either, which his behavior is obviously doing. Maybe if he knew that, he might look at it differently as well? And even if he has a hard time expressing feelings etc. that shouldn't prevent him from at least communicating with you and telling you what he want and don't want.

Sadly, whatever there once was was gone a long time ago, 20 years ago. You are very astute Nimos, yes it was probably more based on the fear of being alone, so I accepted a lot of the bad things that comes with it.

But again, even if its not the most loving relationship, that doesn't necessarily mean that he hates you and as you, yourself say you don't hate him either, so you ought to still be able to talk as friends at least, you still know each other fairly well I assume, given the time you have spend together.

On the other hand, for many years it has been as if he was not even here, and I only now realize that fully, now that I can think back on how it was.

Can only speak for myself, but I think, I would find that a lot worse, here where I live and not that its the same as with you. But there is this guy living in the same apartment building as me, and in Denmark as I guess most other places, you say hello to people when you know they lived in the same building, but this person you can walk right pass and get eye contact and he simply behave as you don't exist. Even if he can see you coming behind him and are heading the same way as him and there only being one door to go through, its normal that you would hold the door etc. This guy doesn't care, he opens the door, go through and it slams right in your face. He is extremely weird, so I simply refuse to say hello to him anymore and just ignore him as he does with others. But my point is, I would rather be alone than having a person like that around, because with such person you simply have to spend to much time wondering why they are as they are. Again, Im not saying that its the same with your husband, but more that when you have a person around you and you know they are aware of you, but choose to ignore you, then I would rather them not being there.

And personally im a person, that if people **** me off, they can **** off. Straight up and simple as that, I don't care spending any time on them whatsoever. Again, not saying that it is like that with your husband.

I would be involved with the Baha’is if they were doing anything in person, but now all they have are Zoom meetings and I am not interested in those. I don’t really have any hobbies since I never had time or interest in anything but the cats and posting on forums. I guess you could say that writing is my hobby. I am still working full time and I have eight cats, so I don’t have a not of free time on my workdays.

You could ask if any of them would be interested in meeting outside Zoom like once a month, because you think it could be more interesting, maybe some of them are thinking the same. But someone has to make the suggestion to do so.

Thanks Nimos, that’s is what I am trying to do, put my personal feelings to the side for now and look at what options are there for my husband when he is released from the hospital, realizing that there are certain things I just have to accept for what they are, as I cannot change my husband or my brother, they are who they are.

Again, you don't have to try to force him to express his feeling if you know he doesn't like too, but you could speak to him as one person to another. And maybe he have it difficult with the situation he is in and his way of dealing with it is trying to "push" you away, because he might think that way you might not get hurt or he might think its easier to handle that way.
But it do sound like and sorry if im wrong, but that you should probably have gotten him to speak with a psychologist a long time ago to try to figure out if he "suffers" from something, maybe that could have helped him and you in general. Again, just a thought, might be completely wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you do not visit your husband you will never know if you may have been able to convince him to eat or to help in some other way. You will have to live with this. Think carefully, Tb.

Funny you mention that. I just got off the phone with the doctor and we talked for a long time. He thinks I should talk to my husband, preferably in person and with him present as a mediator, because we need to determine what my husband's wishes really are. This is a new doctor on the case and he thinks I should try to convince my husband to want to live longer and get any possible treatments that could extend his life.

This new doctor is very different from the other doctor who just accepted my husband's lack of will to live or get any treatment because he told me any treatment would be pointless. This doctor really cares about both my husband and me and he is going the extra mile to help. One person can make all the difference. I could not have faced this alone, and it would not help for me to see him alone, but if the doctor is there when I see him that will help a lot and it could be fruitful.

This doctor will be arranging a meeting with me and my husband and himself and he is going to contact the social worker to try to find transportation to the hospital for me. Normally no visitors are allowed because this is a Covid-restricted floor but the doctor said he will get a special exception just for this meeting.

@Truthseeker I was going to tell you about this but you can read what I just wrote above.

 

[Truthseeker]

Funny you mention that. I just got off the phone with the doctor and we talked for a long time. He thinks I should talk to my husband, preferably in person and with him present as a mediator, because we need to determine what my husband's wishes really are. This is a new doctor on the case and he thinks I should try to convince my husband to want to live longer and get any possible treatments that could extend his life.

This new doctor is very different from the other doctor who just accepted my husband's lack of will to live or get any treatment because he told me any treatment would be pointless. This doctor really cares about both my husband and me and he is going the extra mile to help. One person can make all the difference. I could not have faced this alone, and it would not help for me to see him alone, but if the doctor is there when I see him that will help a lot and it could be fruitful.

This doctor will be arranging a meeting with me and my husband and himself and he is going to contact the social worker to try to find a way for me to transportation to the hospital. Normally no visitors are allowed because this is a Covid-restricted floor but the doctor said he will get a special exception just for this meeting.

@Truthseeker I was going to tell you about this but you can read what I just wrote above.

This new doctor seems to be caring and compassionate.

 

[Trailblazer]

This new doctor seems to be caring and compassionate.

He is awesome! I thought the second doctor was a big improvement over the first doctor who was very insensitive, and the second doctor was very kind and compassionate, but this third doctor is drop dead awesome!

 

[samtonga43]

Why can't you just mind your own business?

You don’t want advice? I had hoped that my comments would encourage you to think laterally, because in my opinion you would gain some insight.

You are not God so you have no idea what my personal situation is, what I have endured with my husband, or what is going on now.

Oh, I think we all have some idea. Your posts are many and are available for all to see.

Stop acting like you know it all. My husband is being well-cared for in the hospital. My husband does not want to see me or talk to me. He does not care about me or how I feel, he only cares about himself and how much pain he is in. If he cared, he would pick up the phone and call me. Others who are aware of the situation also know this and they recommend I not see him or talk to him.

He has a right to feel how he feels at this time. He is dying. You complain because he cares about how much pain he is in. And you call me 'mean and critical'. Look in the mirror, Tb.

I can hardly believe a Christian would ever be so judgmental in light of what Jesus said.
Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Here are those verses in the language of today, rather than the language of the early 17th Century:
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye”.
Read these words carefully, Tb.
Allow them, if you can, to speak to your situation.

Nobody else, including all the Christians on this forum, have ever been mean to me or critical of me the way you are constantly.

I am being honest with you, Tb. I feel it is what you need.

If you don't want to humiliate yourself any further I recommend you cease and desist coming after me with your snide comments, because others can see your behavior for what it is, they are just too polite to say anything.

Oh, I can assure you many of them do say something. Some say quite a lot, actually.

 

[samtonga43]

Funny you mention that. I just got off the phone with the doctor and we talked for a long time. He thinks I should talk to my husband, preferably in person and with him present as a mediator, because we need to determine what my husband's wishes really are. This is a new doctor on the case and he thinks I should try to convince my husband to want to live longer and get any possible treatments that could extend his life.

As I said, I agree with your doctor, and I hope you will go along with his advice.

 

[samtonga43]

But couldn't you call him as well then, if it was possible for her?


I understand, but I don't assume that he is interested in hurting you either, which his behavior is obviously doing. Maybe if he knew that, he might look at it differently as well? And even if he has a hard time expressing feelings etc. that shouldn't prevent him from at least communicating with you and telling you what he want and don't want.


But again, even if its not the most loving relationship, that doesn't necessarily mean that he hates you and as you, yourself say you don't hate him either, so you ought to still be able to talk as friends at least, you still know each other fairly well I assume, given the time you have spend together.


Can only speak for myself, but I think, I would find that a lot worse, here where I live and not that its the same as with you. But there is this guy living in the same apartment building as me, and in Denmark as I guess most other places, you say hello to people when you know they lived in the same building, but this person you can walk right pass and get eye contact and he simply behave as you don't exist. Even if he can see you coming behind him and are heading the same way as him and there only being one door to go through, its normal that you would hold the door etc. This guy doesn't care, he opens the door, go through and it slams right in your face. He is extremely weird, so I simply refuse to say hello to him anymore and just ignore him as he does with others. But my point is, I would rather be alone than having a person like that around, because with such person you simply have to spend to much time wondering why they are as they are. Again, Im not saying that its the same with your husband, but more that when you have a person around you and you know they are aware of you, but choose to ignore you, then I would rather them not being there.

And personally im a person, that if people **** me off, they can **** off. Straight up and simple as that, I don't care spending any time on them whatsoever. Again, not saying that it is like that with your husband.


You could ask if any of them would be interested in meeting outside Zoom like once a month, because you think it could be more interesting, maybe some of them are thinking the same. But someone has to make the suggestion to do so.


Again, you don't have to try to force him to express his feeling if you know he doesn't like too, but you could speak to him as one person to another. And maybe he have it difficult with the situation he is in and his way of dealing with it is trying to "push" you away, because he might think that way you might not get hurt or he might think its easier to handle that way.
But it do sound like and sorry if im wrong, but that you should probably have gotten him to speak with a psychologist a long time ago to try to figure out if he "suffers" from something, maybe that could have helped him and you in general. Again, just a thought, might be completely wrong.

Some good suggestions there, Nimos. Let's hope Tb 'listens'.

 

[Trailblazer]

Some good suggestions there, Nimos. Let's hope Tb 'listens'.

I always listen to @Nimos because he always talks to me kindly and respectfully.

 

[Trailblazer]

You don’t want advice?

I do want advice, from people I trust, people who are kind. I listen to those people all day long and often cry out for help.

I had hoped that my comments would encourage you to think laterally, because in my opinion you would gain some insight.

I do not want your opinion because the delivery is always mean and critical.

Oh, I think we all have some idea. Your posts are many and are available for all to see.

I have not told you so you have no idea what my personal situation is, what I have endured with my husband, or what is going on now. Of everyone on this forum, only my best friend @Truthseeker knows.

He has a right to feel how he feels at this time. He is dying. You complain because he cares about how much pain he is in. And you call me 'mean and critical'. Look in the mirror, Tb.

I also have a right to feel the way I feel.
I have not been mean and critical to my husband. What I say on this forum is just reaching out for help, and the ONLY person on this forum who has been mean and critical is you.

Your posts are many and are available for all to see. ALL you ever do is hound me and criticize me. You never have a kind word. This has been going in since April 2021.

You do not know the half of it. You only see one side, the side you want to see.
He is dying by choice, because he has refused any cancer treatment. An oncologist who specializes in the kind of cancer he has reviewed his case and she said she has a treatment she can offer him. He has chosen instead to die and he could not care less about me and what I will have to endure after he dies.

I have a right to feel as I feel, and I am not hurting anyone by having feelings. I have never been anything but kind and caring to my husband. Nobody else in this world cares if he lives or dies and yet he throws me away like an old pair of shoes, after I cared for him for 37 years.

It is those who are left behind who suffer most, not people who die, as they go to heaven.

Here are those verses in the language of today, rather than the language of the early 17th Century:
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye”.
Read these words carefully, Tb.
Allow them, if you can, to speak to your situation.

It does not matter what translation you use, the basic meaning is the same.
You are the one who is judging me constantly, I am judging nobody. I am just crying out in pain, and I am hurting nobody by doing so.

I am being honest with you, Tb. I feel it is what you need.

I do not care what you feel because you are not my friend and you have no idea what I need. I need kindness, caring, and compassion, something you do not have to offer. You are just a know-it-all who is mean and critical.

Oh, I can assure you many of them do say something. Some say quite a lot, actually.

Oh, can you find these posts that are mean and critical like your posts?
Please post the links to posts of anyone who was mean and critical towards me and then we will have something to discuss.

I do not have any problems with anyone on this forum except you, and that is because nobody acts like you except you. I like everyone here and get along with everyone no matter what thye believe or disbelieve.

 

[Trailblazer]

But couldn't you call him as well then, if it was possible for her?

The reason I do not want to call him is because I don't want to upset him and because there is nothing left to say. Apparently, he has made his choice. I cannot be less than honest about my feelings, I cannot lie and say I am happy about his decision to give up and die. But I am going to call him anyway, tomorrow or the next day.

I understand, but I don't assume that he is interested in hurting you either, which his behavior is obviously doing. Maybe if he knew that, he might look at it differently as well? And even if he has a hard time expressing feelings etc. that shouldn't prevent him from at least communicating with you and telling you what he want and don't want.

I never said he was trying to hurt me. I never thought he was deliberately trying to hurt me, but he has hurt me nonetheless, for years and years. I got so used to it I stopped noticing just so I could survive day to day since I have many responsibilities.

I have endured it silently and the only people who knew about it were my counselors, because I had no friends or family to help me but the counselors could not help me either. They just said I have to either accept the situation as it is or get divorced.

I will have to communicate with him to determine what he wants. I probably won't do that on the phone, I will wait till I visit him in the hospital next Saturday because the doctor will be there to listen and maybe he can facilitate the conversation.

But again, even if its not the most loving relationship, that doesn't necessarily mean that he hates you and as you, yourself say you don't hate him either, so you ought to still be able to talk as friends at least, you still know each other fairly well I assume, given the time you have spend together.

No, I do not think he hates me, I have NO IDEA how he feels about me. Admittedly, I have a love-hate relationship with him, but I think he is just indifferent. It is hard to be friends when there is so much history which is fraught with difficulties and either miscommunication or no communication.

Can only speak for myself, but I think, I would find that a lot worse, here where I live and not that its the same as with you. But there is this guy living in the same apartment building as me, and in Denmark as I guess most other places, you say hello to people when you know they lived in the same building, but this person you can walk right pass and get eye contact and he simply behave as you don't exist. Even if he can see you coming behind him and are heading the same way as him and there only being one door to go through, its normal that you would hold the door etc. This guy doesn't care, he opens the door, go through and it slams right in your face. He is extremely weird, so I simply refuse to say hello to him anymore and just ignore him as he does with others. But my point is, I would rather be alone than having a person like that around, because with such person you simply have to spend to much time wondering why they are as they are. Again, Im not saying that its the same with your husband, but more that when you have a person around you and you know they are aware of you, but choose to ignore you, then I would rather them not being there.

My husband has been ignoring me for so long that I forgot when he ever paid any attention to me, so I just got used to it. I was always either busy on the forums, taking care of thee cats, or working at my job, and he was usually watching TV, so we were like two ships that pas in the night, except it was only in the kitchen!

Whenever I tried to have a discussion about our lifestyle and our future he would not say anything as he expected me to make all the decisions. I told him I do not want to make the decisions but that did no good. He had no idea what he wanted and he was settled into a routine, even though he admitted he did not like it. If I pressed him it always turned into an argument, so finally I stopped bringing it up, unless I got to the end of my rope with our lifestyle occasionally.

It is ironic that he now wants to make his own decision about not accepting any treatment for his cancer. He has not made an important decision since we got married 37 years ago. He has refused to do things though, things that would have benefited both of us, like working at a higher-paying job. That was 20 years ago when money was very tight since I had gotten laid off my job due to budget cuts and I had to accept a much lower-paying job for eight years until I finally got another job in my field that paid more.

And personally im a person, that if people **** me off, they can **** off. Straight up and simple as that, I don't care spending any time on them whatsoever. Again, not saying that it is like that with your husband.

Well, you are single and I guess you are also self-sufficient so you can choose who you want to spend time with.

You could ask if any of them would be interested in meeting outside Zoom like once a month, because you think it could be more interesting, maybe some of them are thinking the same. But someone has to make the suggestion to do so.

I think there are a few Baha'is who have started going back to meeting in person at homes, and they have a connection to the other Baha'is via Zoom, but I don't have any time to think about that right now. All my time is taken up on work and other serious matters..

Again, you don't have to try to force him to express his feeling if you know he doesn't like too, but you could speak to him as one person to another. And maybe he have it difficult with the situation he is in and his way of dealing with it is trying to "push" you away, because he might think that way you might not get hurt or he might think its easier to handle that way.
But it do sound like and sorry if im wrong, but that you should probably have gotten him to speak with a psychologist a long time ago to try to figure out if he "suffers" from something, maybe that could have helped him and you in general. Again, just a thought, might be completely wrong.

Like I said, I actually have no idea what he is thinking, but I think this nice doctor can help by facilitating a conversation.

He had seem a psychologist a long time ago, over 20 years ago, and we often both went together, and then we both went to another psychologist about10 years ago, and I can remember him saying we could not communicate with each other, although that was never resolved. That psychologist left the clinic and after that all they had to offer was MA level counselors and social workers who were less educated. That has never been very helpful.

More recently when he has been depressed, long before his cancer diagnosis, I have tried to get him to see a counselor but he never would.

I am not only in torment seeing him suffering and debilitated with the cancer, I am very upset because I don't know how this happened, how the cancer went undiagnosed for so long, why they waited to do surgery for two months after they knew he had cancer, and then we found out it had metastasized after the surgery on July 5. This might end up being a lawsuit if I cannot find out why this happened to my satisfaction. However, I cannot deal with that now, I need to make some decisions regarding where he is going to go when he is released from the hospital. That is the next order of business and we need to make that decision together.

I really don't know what people just assume I can be so strong and deal with this all by myself, since I have no family or friends. I also have a history of depression and anxiety and I am now walking a tightrope to prevent falling into a depression. If I see him in the hospital I cannot say what will happen. I really need more emotional support than I have. All I can do now is talk to God constantly and say "God help me!" I think God is helping me but I need more and more help each day, so it is a good thing that God has unlimited power.

 

[Truthseeker]

He has refused to do things though, things that would have benefited both of us, like working at a higher-paying job. That was 20 years ago when money was very tight since I had gotten laid off my job due to budget cuts and I had to accept a much lower-paying job for eight years until I finally got another job in my field that paid more.

Could it have been that he felt he couldn't get a higher a higher-paying job? Or handle the responsibilty of a higher-paying job?

I am not only in torment seeing him suffering and debilitated with the cancer, I am very upset because I don't know how this happened, how the cancer went undiagnosed for so long, why they waited to do surgery for two months after they knew he had cancer, and then we found out it had metastasized after the surgery on July 5. This might end up being a lawsuit if I cannot find out why this happened to my satisfaction.

I hadn't heard that tidbit that that you will sue them if you cannot find out to your satisfaction why this happened. It is good to make sure they did something wrong before you sue. That's the attitude. However beware of a lawyer possibly misleading you about the situation because he wants to make more money. Get a lawyer that is trustworthy and has integrity as far as you can tell. You want justice, but make as sure as you can you don't inadvertantly fall into injustice.

I really don't know what people just assume I can be so strong and deal with this all by myself, since I have no family or friends. I also have a history of depression and anxiety and I am now walking a tightrope to prevent falling into a depression. If I see him in the hospital I cannot say what will happen. I really need more emotional support than I have. All I can do now is talk to God constantly and say "God help me!" I think God is helping me but I need more and more help each day, so it is a good thing that God has unlimited power.

Yes, no friends there in person. My friendship at a distance does little good. I can't deal with your situation, you have to do most of it. Are you afraid you will fall apart when you see Lewis? I am afraid with you.