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Featured Detachment and suffering

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Jul 15, 2022.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I would rather not divulge what I am going through or what I fear is up ahead, I just want to talk about detachment and suffering. One reason I do not want to go into any details is because what people say very often only makes me feel worse and I cannot afford to feel any worse since I am walking a tightrope right now. I kindly ask you not to offer any religious platitudes about how suffering is good for us, as that is the very last thing I need. If you cannot help yourself, please do not reply to this thread.

    Some believers claim that detachment is the way to reduce or eliminate suffering, that is a Buddhist as well as a Baha’i belief, but what does one do when they cannot detach from a situation since it involves another person who depends upon them, a person that they care about? I am trying to be detached from the situation but when does it become selfish to detach from the other person who is the source of my suffering, just to reduce my own suffering?

    I feel like I want to die whenever I stop to think so I am staying as busy as possible so I won’t have time to think If I did not believe in God and the afterlife, I would probably kill myself before having to go through what is up ahead. This will probably be the most difficult test I have even endured in my life. If only I could be selfish and only care about myself this would not be that difficult, but I have never been one to think about my personal happiness.

    When there is nobody left to turn to and no other hope, God is all I have. God is working overtime listening to my constant prayers just so I can stay afloat. I am asking God for guidance and assistance getting through this. God knows I would like to see a miracle but I am trying to believe that whatever happens is God’s will and I am 'trying' to accept that.
     
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  2. The Hammer

    The Hammer Fork-Beard
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    I would say it's never selfish to look after oneself. And detaching doesn't have to be a complete removal of yourself from the person, if they are depending on you. It's about becoming detached from the good or bad consequences regardless of what occurs. I'm not really sure this helps. But I'm here for you if you need anything.
     
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  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I can only say there is nothing but going forward.

    I think one of the hardest aspects of letting go is the realization of the dynamics of change and why we try to grasp and cling as things do so, for both better and worse.
     
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  4. KenD

    KenD Face to face with my Father
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    With this comment, a prayer for you is accompanied... When one part of the body hurts, the whole of the body hurts.

    In my book, suffering is not what God wants for you.

    That being said, may God give you wisdom to know what to do and guidance on how to do it.

    May He give you a door of escape. May you be strengthened in your inner person and may faith arise.

    May His grace flow and give you peace.
     
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  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    For the time being I have completely removed myself from this person since I now know that this person does not care about me the way I care about him. He only cares about himself. He now has other people who are caring for him so he does not need me anymore. Maybe I should be grateful to be relieved of my responsibilities but that is not the kind of person that I am. I care about people even if they don't care about me.
     
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  6. The Hammer

    The Hammer Fork-Beard
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    Understandable, and there is nothing wrong with caring for someone, even if they aren't any good for you. The main thing is to not allow that care for them, to override your better judgement of self care.
     
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  7. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    You can care about someone without having to spend all energy on them, if this person (which I think I know who is) is being taken care of by others and is happy in that situation. Then you haven't done anything wrong, so you ought to feel fine spending more energy on yourself and your own happiness, without feeling bad about it. Again, from what you write, this seems to be the choice chosen by this person, so you can still care about them and be friendly to them, but remove some or a lot of responsibility that you would normally take on you and be more free.
     
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  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I guess now is as good a time as any to stop being so mysterious and since you are still my favorite atheist, I trust you with my feelings...

    This person is my husband of 37 years who has Stage IV bladder cancer. He had been sickly for a long time but nobody had any idea that it was cancer and it was misdiagnosed and mismanaged by the doctors. There will be a lawsuit if that is determined by the law firms that I have a case but now is not the time to be filing lawsuits.

    My husband could try to fight this cancer by getting any available treatments, and since we live close to Seattle we are near one of the best cancer treatment centers in the country, but he has chosen not to fight. He is in the hospital 30 miles north of here and I have not seen him since his admission on July 5. He does not care about me and the suffering I will have to endure after he dies, he only cares about himself and not being in pain, but the pain he has is only bladder spasms and it is nothing like the real cancer pain many cancer patients have to endure.

    It is not as if we have had a loving relationship. We have been living like roommates who barely get along for over 20 years, but he is still my husband and I still love him even though he does not care about me. I have taken care of him for 37 years and although he worked for 23 of those years, he did nothing else. I took care of everything.

    We never had any children so I have no grandchildren and I have no other family left except one older brother who lives in Colorado, but he does not care about me either. He had not called me in years and about a week ago he finally called me for another reason at which time he found out about my husband. All he did was listen and at the end of the phone call he nonchalantly said "Let me know if Lewis dies." I have told that to many people, complete strangers, and they cannot believe a brother could be that insensitive and uncaring. I get more support and love from the cats.

    People just assume that everyone has someone, friends or family, but such is not always the case and it is very hurtful when people assume that although I know it isn't their fault. Some Baha'is in the Baha'i community where I live have expressed some concern and desire to help but they do not really want to be bothered by this so they are not really there to help, especially when I carry on about God. I am in essence completely alone except for my counselor and the people on this forum.

    Cancer is a scourge. I cannot understand why a loving God would allow such a disease to destroy the lives of so many people, which is one reason why I do not believe God is loving. However, I still cry out to God because I believe God is all-powerful, so He is the only entity that can help me at this point. The way I feel does not make sense to most people, believers or atheists, because they would not believe in a God they felt this way about, but I stayed with my husband too, in spite of him not being loving.

    For years, I have known that my husband does not care about me because he never did anything but say "I care" but now that other people are involved in his care they have seen it, as it is right out in the open for all to see. When the doctor at the hospital gave him alternatives for where he wants to go after he gets out of the hospital and suggested Hospice House in the city where the hospital is 30 miles north of here, he said that he would like to go there because he does not want to go home, since he is afraid he will be in pain again, but he could have the same pain medications at home as in the hospice facility.

    After 37 years that I care for him he has not even called me from the hospital and he does not care if he ever sees me again, all he cares about is himself and his physical pain. I do not really want him at home but I was willing to care for him with the help of visiting nurses. Right now I just want to forget I ever married him, but that won't be easy. I should add that I do not depends upon him for anything so I don't need him the way he needed me. I will have the same income after he dies and the three houses paid in full and more than the equivalent in stocks and bonds and money in the bank. I am fully self-sufficient. There is a part of me that wants a new life perhaps with someone else but there is a part of me who wants to live alone for the rest of my life.

    I should also mention another reason he does not care if he dies, because he believes in an afterlife that is going to be so glorious, and he'd rather be there than here. This is what religious beliefs do to people. I also believe in an afterlife but it won't necessarily be glorious for him when he dies and realizes all the suffering he put me through and how I am suffering now. But God is all-merciful even if that is not just. In Baha'i parlance it is said that God's mercy exceeds His justice. Something is wrong with that, but who doesn't want mercy, even if they don't deserve it?
     
    #8 Trailblazer, Jul 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2022
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  9. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    I went through a lot of sadness when I lost my dad two years ago, as I was taking care of him alone, and he passed away in my own home. So, I recall that, there was nothing I could have done in those days to reduce my sadness. I only prayed that things might be less painful for him.
    But now, when I look back, I realize, it is impossible for anyone to live forever. Even if he hadn't passed two years ago, he would have passed 5 years or maybe 10 years later. So, at this time, I think it does not matter when he passed, because he wasn't going to live forever, and that is the case for all of our loved ones. We go to a better place.
     
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  10. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    There are online mental health services. Folks willing to help you with your mental well-being.

    Perhaps it is time to seek professional help. I usually go through my grief by myself but maybe sometimes it is too much to handle alone.
     
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  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Well, I never had to go through that with my father because he died of a sudden heart attack when he was 52 and I was 12. My mother lived to be 93 and lived alone in her own condo and was taken to the hospital for an illness and passed in the hospital three days later. That was 15 years ago. So I never had to take care of an aging parent or anyone else, but I would not mind taking care of my husband. You can read the story as I just posted it to Nimos.

    Detachment and suffering

    Nobody knows if we go to a better place, or to any place, all they can do is believe that.
    Sure, I have faith in the Baha'i version of the afterlife, but after all the suffering I have endured in this life, the very last thing I ant is to be close to God. Hell, here I come!
     
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  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Thanks, but I already have all the help I can get and this is not a mental health issue, it is a grief and loss issue, but there is more to it, as I just explained to Nimos.

    Detachment and suffering
     
  13. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    That is a long post and sad to hear everything you are going through. Will have to answer you later though as I don't have time now. But keep it up, it might not be as bad as you let yourself believe, but will get back to that later :)
     
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  14. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    In the past when I suffered I refused to give in to my negative feelings. I lost my closest friend recently and I never gave in to despair. I tried to look at things in the Truest best light possible. I determined myself not to give in to emotions that I didn't want to feel, and did me no good to feel. I don't know if that's a great idea, but I detached from bad ways at looking at things.

    I've lost people in my youth that made me very emotionally grief stricken and feeling very gloomy, and doomy. I vowed never to let myself get that way ever again, and I've managed to do that.

    Self care is very important and some people lose track of themselves after suffering loss. This time around I determined myself to handle things better than the first time around. It was best for me to fight off too much negativity.

    As for loving people that don't love back I suppose that's their problem when there's no reason to be blamed for anything. Sometimes it's a comfort to know that you've done your absolute best even though things don't go as hoped for.
     
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  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am truly sorry for the loss of your friend. I am going to lose my husband of 37 years and it is a long story why. I explained to @Nimos so I won't explain it again. If you want to know you can read that story.

    Detachment and suffering

    I was holding my own and even had a positive attitude despite all this till I heard from the doctor in the hospital today. After 37 years, my husband does not even care if he ever sees me again. I just cannot understand how anyone could be so aloof from the person who cared about him and for him for 37 years. It hurts more than hell.
     
  16. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Is he in his right mind? That makes no sense.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Yes, he was evaluated by a psychiatrist two days ago and it was determined that he has no cognitive impairments and is fully capable of making his own decisions.

    He just does not think about me and how I feel because he is selfish. Maybe he is incapable of caring, I don't really know.

    I know that is difficult for you to understand given all the spiritual virtues you have.

    How much more suffering I can endure in this life I don't know.
    Maybe God will help me, I don't know.
     
  18. We Never Know

    We Never Know No Slack

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    Seek some one to talk to in person instead of here online.
    I wish you the best but you need a personal connection talking to someone, not a chat forum.
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I have a regular counselor that I see, but only via Zoom, since he sees no clients in person.
    I already tried to find a support group but so far all of them are virtual, not in person.
    The only one I can talk to 'in person' is God but He does not talk back! However, I know he hears every word.
    Every night I go on a long walk and God gets an earful.

    Covid-19 has changed the way people live and communicate. People are so afraid of dying.
    The irony is that I am not afraid of dying of Covid, never have been, even though I have no vaccination.
     
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  20. We Never Know

    We Never Know No Slack

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    Sorry to hear all that. In my opinion personal contact with some one to talk to would be great, but as you said covid has cut much of that off.
    Don't give up and keep seeking. Someone will be there.
     
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