Debt Relief for Unpaid Government Workers!

[Salvador]

....And Trump's wall would cost US, the taxpayers, 30 - 70 billion just to build, plus maintenance over the years which will quickly exceed the initial cost to build the wall. We could actually address immigration in a meaningful way, streamline the immigration process, and actively work towards creating a solution for immigration rather than wasting money by passively hoping the issue goes away.

Trump has already shifted his position from a $40 billion concrete wall across the entire border to acceptance of a less than $6 billion steel slated barrier across a few hundred miles; the amount of funding the POTUS is now requesting for security border fencing is in line with what Democrats supported in the Secure Fence Act enacted by Congress with bi-partisan support in 2006.

 

[Salvador]

I
How do you propose we bypass the risks posed to migratory animals and local environments? .

A steel slated barrier would allow smaller-sized animals to go through the slated openings without getting stuck.

Unlike most human persons, other larger-sized animals such as creatures of flight could fly over the wall, burrowers could tunnel under the wall, and sharp clawed climbers might be able to climb over the wall.

Wild life species who can't get passed the wall will have to adapt to their new environment with a security border barrier or they will go extinct. The extinction of species simply happens all the time in nature.

 

[Salvador]

I Why not cameras, satellites, and drones to allow the border to watched with a degree of efficiency with one person watching more boarder from behind a screen than what a whole crew could do in a day on foot?

The most effective border security barrier system would include all the above mentioned surveillance equipment as well as a border security steel-slated barrier.

 

[Salvador]

How does a wall prevent illegal immigrants when most of the illegal immigrants came here legally and overstayed their visa?

Nearly half of Mexican illegal aliens now in the U.S. have trespassed into our nation by way of crossing the open border from Mexico into the United States; a security border barrier is intended to prevent these unwanted intruders from trespassing into our nation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nearly half of Mexican illegal aliens now in the U.S. have trespassed into our nation by way of crossing the open border from Mexico into the United States;

EVERY Mexican immigrant, legal or illegal, crosses the border. A good chunk of them did it legally and overstayed their visa. An easy number is about 50/50 overstayed their visa and came illegally. Some sources show that overstayers have outnumbers those illegally crossing for several years now. Regardless, a wall does nothing more than throw an obstacle to for those illegally coming to cross. And there are already means under and over that are utilized by the cartel. So we fail to address half illegal immigrants with a wall and create a way for the cartels to make even more money as they ferry the other half through. And we're left with a massive bill for a wall that leaves us still with employers who knowingly and eagerly hire illegal workers, people who overstay their visa, an immigration system that fails legal immigrants, and a country that loudly proclaims "give me your tired, huddles masses yearning to breath free" and has long taken in those coming from lands of violence and poverty. Taking in immigrants and assimilating them is about as American of an American tradition as it gets.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The most effective border security barrier system would include all the above mentioned surveillance equipment as well as a border security steel-slated barrier.

Then why all the cries for a wall, and the impatient Trump supporters demanding a wall? And if we can actually watch the boarder, why have a wall at all? We see them coming in, we can send someone out directly to them. No need to rely on ancient technology when we can do so much better for so much cheaper.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Unlike most human persons, other larger-sized animals such as creatures of flight could fly over the wall, burrowers could tunnel under the wall, and sharp clawed climbers might be able to climb over the wall.

It's doubtful they could climb over. Burrowers will probably not go deep enough. And even birds are posed to have their immigration routes thrown off. Water ways would become obstructed.

Wild life species who can't get passed the wall will have to adapt to their new environment with a security border barrier or they will go extinct. The extinction of species simply happens all the time in nature.

Human arrogance has already severely ****ed up this world. We don't need to let our own fears and insecurities continue to make life hell - and non-existent - for other species because we can't share our land. Those who also share this world with us are not there for us to abuse and make demands of because we refuse to live in harmony with the Earth. We are animals just like they are, they owe us nothing, and we are not any better than them no matter how much we like to pretend they are. This calloused and cold "oh well if the go extinct over our own stupidity and inability to properly manager our affairs" is why we humans created the ongoing mass extinction and why we will probably destroy ourselves before our time is up. How can we care about ourselves and our own well being when we care not for the well being of those we are dependent upon for our own survival and well being?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Trump has already shifted his position from a $40 billion concrete wall across the entire border to acceptance of a less than $6 billion steel slated barrier across a few hundred miles; the amount of funding the POTUS is now requesting for security border fencing is in line with what Democrats supported in the Secure Fence Act enacted by Congress with bi-partisan support in 2006.

Know why some people who jump fences sometimes first throw a rug over the fence?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Seriously, if, as the Conservative argument goes, banning guns won't stop criminals from getting guns because they're criminals and don't care about the law, why is it that suddenly a wall will get people to care about legality? If you have already decided to break the law, and to make such a move, chances are there has already been so much thought, effort, energy, and time spent into planning and deciding that it's going to take more than a wall to deter someone. Especially if their plan already starts with the assumption there is a wall to overcome.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If Trump does get his wall, I eagerly await the first social media posts from the first wave of illegal immigrants who got through just to spite Trump. It will be such a fine time for so many of us to announce "told ya so." (It will happen. No point in trying to pretend it won't)

 

[Salvador]

Then why all the cries for a wall, and the impatient Trump supporters demanding a wall? And if we can actually watch the boarder, why have a wall at all? We see them coming in, we can send someone out directly to them. No need to rely on ancient technology when we can do so much better for so much cheaper.

Border fencing isn't considered ancient technology, Hungary just recently erected border fencing in 2015 that's been highly effective at keeping illegal migrants out of there country, and some border fencing was erected at the U.S. Mexican border recently within the last decade. Border patrol agents with a border security barrier system, inclusive of surveillance equipment along with a steel-slated barrier, can enable border patrol agents to do their jobs more safely and more effectively keeping illegal aliens from trespassing across the border than if border patrol agents were limited to having only surveillance equipment without a physical barrier or than if they were limited to having only a physical barrier without surveillance equipment.

 

[Salvador]

Know why some people who jump fences sometimes first throw a rug over the fence?

I doubt most Mexican men could so easily climb over a 20 foot high steel-slated barrier; maybe a few could accomplish this feat, but I'd reckon there'd be some who'd break their legs trying, which would teach them a good lesson not to try trespassing illegally into America.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I doubt most Mexican men could so easily climb over a 20 foot high steel-slated barrier; maybe a few could accomplish this feat, but I'd reckon there'd be some who'd break their legs trying, which would teach them a good lesson not to try trespassing illegally into America.

I think most Mexican people, men and women, unless severely physically disabled, can easily get over a wall. A stationary wall isn't exactly an obstacle course. Rope, ladder, rug, wire cutters, and we can turn getting over the wall into a game. This doesn't take much imagination to figure out how to do this. The engineering for the tunneling is astounding, but most ways to cross a wall are pretty low tech, unimaginative, and pretty simple to figure out. Scout patrols, cameras, and other holes and observation and you can run a ring sending people over all day at various points - all of them where the eyes of Uncle Sam are not.
Easier to just let them walk in, make it easy, and pick them up because you saw them coming. And it's way easier to see the coming when there isn't a giant wall obstructing the view.

Border fencing isn't considered ancient technology

So, is China's wall a modern invention?
And do keep in mind Hungary has a very different topography than the Mexico/US border. We have large vast areas of desert. Hungary has forests and mountains waiting for those who would illegally enter. America's natural barriers are the oceans. You also haven't posted any sources for this "99%." It seems doubtful if for no other reason than the fact such numbers are pretty much impossible to accurately capture (illegal immigrants do typically keep a very low profile and keep as much attention off of them as possible).
You are also ignoring the fact a wall will not address at least half of all illegal immigrants who came here legally and overstayed their legally granted visa. A wall can do nothing about that. Everybody else there are already underground tunnels, oceans to swim in, and catapults to launch contraband across the boarder. Wanting a wall so desperately is really nothing more than an admission that you don't really know what the Mexican cartel is capable of and already doing, now, even before Trump's wall. It should be assumed they have already at least made plans for adjusting operations once the wall is there, if they haven't already set those plans in motion just to be ready if the wall does come once it is up.

 

[Shad]

As I've just recently discussed, one of my latest concerns is to keep unpaid government workers doing their jobs; this can be done with legislation that would allow them to withdrawal money from their retirement funds without penalty as well as deferring their financial obligations to pay their loans, mortgages or rent until they get all their back pay when their partial government shutdown holiday ends.

The last thing we want is a public uproar from those whose flights get delayed or cancelled from a walk-out of unpaid government workers involved with air travel safety. We want this partial government shutdown to be as painless as possible. Unfortunately, we don't know how long it'll take Democratic congressional members to come to their senses for approving border security barrier funding in order to keep the American public as safe as possible from illegal alien criminality.

Please write your Congressional representatives expressing your support of the aforementioned legislation to financially help unpaid government workers until they can fulfill their financial obligations when they get all their back pay upon the commencement of their partial government shutdown holiday

Voted no as federal employees by ignorance or knowledge accepted a contract to work for an employer that can shutdown pay due to politics. Sue the government or get a better job.

 

[Salvador]

I

So, is China's wall a modern invention?

I'd reckon steel-slated barriers are way more modern than a stone wall.

 

[Salvador]

I You also haven't posted any sources for this "99%." It seems doubtful if for no other reason than the fact such numbers are pretty much impossible to accurately capture (illegal immigrants do typically keep a very low profile and keep as much attention off of them as possible).

Hungarian border barrier - Wikipedia

"Attempted border entries have fallen since the barrier was constructed. During the month of September 2015 there was a total number of 138,396 migrant entries, and within the first two weeks of November the average daily number of intercepted migrants decreased to only 15, which is a daily reduction of more than 4,500."

http://www.police.hu/hirek-es-infor...onap[value][year]=2015&honap[value][month]=11

 

[Salvador]

EVERY Mexican immigrant, legal or illegal, crosses the border. A good chunk of them did it legally and overstayed their visa. .

Right...I'd meant to write that nearly half of all illegal Mexican immigrants have trespassed into the U.S. by way of trekking across the border between legal ports of entry.

 

[Revoltingest]

Then why all the cries for a wall, and the impatient Trump supporters demanding a wall? And if we can actually watch the boarder, why have a wall at all? We see them coming in, we can send someone out directly to them. No need to rely on ancient technology when we can do so much better for so much cheaper.

With no physical barriers, the traffic would be overwhelming.
To make it physically more difficult to cross eliminates those
who are less capable or dedicated. Manpower deals with the
rest. The amount & type of wall is a function of this traffic.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

With no physical barriers, the traffic would be overwhelming.
To make it physically more difficult to cross eliminates those
who are less capable or dedicated. Manpower deals with the
rest. The amount & type of wall is a function of this traffic.

While that is true, I'd rather not give more money to the drug cartels who would no doubt prey upon the desperate and offer safe, and relatively first class passage through the boarder. Pretty much any solution will have to consider how it will effect the cartels, as they are an epicenter of violence and drugs coming from Mexico (and within). And they are already beating walls where they exist, with devices as simple as a catapult to launch contraband into America.
We also have to consider the consequences. If all undocumented workers were deported today, we could expect our food situation to get abit hairy for awhile with costs going up to make up the difference from going from cheap illegal labor to at least minimum wage legal labor. And, of course, though agriculture may potentially bear the biggest blow, there would be a lot of work that wouldn't be getting done. Of course 100% deportation is extreme and highly improbably, we really do have to accept we are dependent upon illegal immigrants. The old saying "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind.
And what will a wall really accomplish? There will still be employers willing to risk getting caught breaking the law to lure in and hire undocumented workers. There will still be those who overstay their visa. There will still be bodies needed by the cartel for some jobs. Internal policy changes, I believe, will be far more effective than a wall could ever be. Most people probably wouldn't like some of the needed solutions, such as legalizing and regulating all drugs and prostitution. And also harsh/stiff penalties for employers who hire illegal immigrants - and then making them legal work visas to get them paying income taxes. And of course people whine and cry about "what about American citizens born here?," but those born in other nations and coming here often times don't have the same inflated sense of entitlement and are more ambitious and willing to work, and because they want to become citizens we do need to prioritize the immigration system from the bottom up to streamline the process and improve efficiency to reduce overstayed visas.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Right...I'd meant to write that nearly half of all illegal Mexican immigrants have trespassed into the U.S. by way of trekking across the border between legal ports of entry.

And of the other half a wall will do absolutely nothing about, and the aforementioned half will be balked but many will still manage to find their way here.