Death Hell And The Devil .

[ChrisP]

the bible is full of sybolism but as a God of love he would never ever torment people .

An Abrahamic Deity might not torment people, but he could allow people to torment themselves... He's allowing that already

EDIT: Memories are slowly swimming to the surface about the sinners being forsaken also... forsaken = no sake... and everyone loves sake (microwave for a few secs for a better taste)

 

[may]

Hi May,
I think you must make a distinction between the body and the spirit - the body was made from dust and the body will return to dust. The body will descend to the grave - to the earth. Now you must be sure to look at the context of the scripture and see whether She´ol is meaning the earthly grave where the body will lie, or whether it means the 'underworld' ie. hell.
In anycase consider the following:

A clear distinction between the body and the spirit - the dust returns to the earth (the body) but the spirit returns to God who gave it.
So i ask again, where are the verses that speak of total destruction?

Sheol is the common grave of mankind.

Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell.

the Greek teaching of the immortality of the human soul infiltrated Jewish religious thinking in later centuries, and is not a bible teaching .the spirit returning to God just means that what returns to God is the vital force that enabled the person to live .only God has the power to bring a person back to life



his spirit Or, "His breath." Heb., ru·choh´; Gr., pneu´ma; Lat., spi´ri·tus.

goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish. ..psalm 146;4

(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the [true] God who gave it............. the bible does not teach us that we have a shadowy seperate thing inside of us, many people have been misled over the years ,the bible does not teach this

 

[Endless]

Hi May,

............. the bible does not teach us that we have a shadowy seperate thing inside of us, many people have been misled over the years ,the bible does not teach this

I'll let Job answer you:

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding.

Yes, there is a spirit in man.

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:

This spirit inside of man was formed by God - God gave it therefore this agrees with the verse that says it returns to God.

The Bible teaches such a thing as a spirit - unclean spirits which are demons. So there are entities which are spirits. What about the spiritists and mediums the Bible talks about? Check this passage out:

1Samuel 28:9 Then the woman said to him, "Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?"
10 And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing."
11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!"
13 And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What did you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth."
14 So he said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle." And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.

I don't really know how much clearer you want the Bible to be that man has a spirit in him that lives on after he has died...The spirit of Samuel (who was dead) is seen ascending out of the earth. This is not total destruction - quite the opposite really.

1Samuel 28:15 Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do."

Read this passage if you want May, Samuel remembers, Samuel thinks, Samuel talks about the Lord but Samuel is already dead. What is talking, what still remembers? The Bible answers this clearly: I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.

People would say that it is the spirit inside of us that makes us alive - whether that is true or not i don't know, expect when the body is dead the spirit leaves that body. Personally i would be careful about your definition of Sheol - because allow it can mean the grave, it can also equally mean the 'underworld'. The Jews who wrote the Old testament did not believe that life finished at the grave, but they believed in life after death. Hence the reason they followed God, sacrificing to cleanse their sins etc. So while Sheol can mean 'the grave' it can also mean 'the underworld' or life hereafter, it doesn't always mean the grave, the context decides this. Hope this helps.

 

[may]

Hi May,

I'll let Job answer you:


Yes, there is a spirit in man.

This spirit inside of man was formed by God - God gave it therefore this agrees with the verse that says it returns to God.

The Bible teaches such a thing as a spirit - unclean spirits which are demons. So there are entities which are spirits. What about the spiritists and mediums the Bible talks about? Check this passage out:


I don't really know how much clearer you want the Bible to be that man has a spirit in him that lives on after he has died...The spirit of Samuel (who was dead) is seen ascending out of the earth. This is not total destruction - quite the opposite really.

Read this passage if you want May, Samuel remembers, Samuel thinks, Samuel talks about the Lord but Samuel is already dead. What is talking, what still remembers? The Bible answers this clearly: I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.

People would say that it is the spirit inside of us that makes us alive - whether that is true or not i don't know, expect when the body is dead the spirit leaves that body. Personally i would be careful about your definition of Sheol - because allow it can mean the grave, it can also equally mean the 'underworld'. The Jews who wrote the Old testament did not believe that life finished at the grave, but they believed in life after death. Hence the reason they followed God, sacrificing to cleanse their sins etc. So while Sheol can mean 'the grave' it can also mean 'the underworld' or life hereafter, it doesn't always mean the grave, the context decides this. Hope this helps.

regarding Job 32;8

Surely it is the spirit in mortal men




​

And the breath of the Almighty [that] gives them understanding................ the spirit spoken of here is Gods spirit or the active-force , Gods spirit brings understanding to men

That spirit acts as a driving force that moves and impels them,

It can be like a "fire" within them, causing them to be "aglow" with that force , as the following verses tell us(1Th 5:19; Ac 18:25; Ro 12:11),

Do not put out the fire of the spirit. 1 thessalonians 5;19

This [man] had been orally instructed in the way of Jehovah and, as he was aglow with the spirit, he went speaking and teaching with correctness the things about Jesus, but being acquainted with only the baptism of John. ...acts 18;25 yes the spirit is a motivating force , when a person has Gods spirit it impels him .

they receive the "power of the spirit," or "power through his spirit." it is not a thing that comes out at death and floats off to God,
The Greek pneu´ma (spirit) comes from pne´o, meaning "breathe or blow," and the Hebrew ru´ach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ru´ach and pneu´ma, then, basically mean "breath" but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. (Compare Hab 2:19; Re 13:15.) They can also mean wind; the vital force in living creatures; one’s spirit; spirit persons, including God and his angelic creatures; and God’s active force, or holy spirit. (Compare Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, Leiden, 1958, pp. 877-879; Brown, Driver, and Briggs’ Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, 1980, pp. 924-926; Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, edited by G. Friedrich, translated by G. Bromiley, 1971, Vol. VI, pp. 332-451.) All these meanings have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects

 

[may]

getting back to total destruction

Gehenna represented complete destruction without hope of a resurrection.

When Adam and Eve died, they had no prospect of benefiting from Christ’s ransom sacrifice. Rather, they went to Gehenna. they have no hope of a resurrection,it was total destruction for them ,but most people who die go to sheol which is mankinds common grave, the same as hades is mankinds common grave.

What, then, are the prospects for those in Sheol (Hades) and those in Gehenna? Simply put, resurrection for the former; eternal destruction—nonexistence—for the latter.

At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to "be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the "soul" separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, "second death.

 

[Endless]

Thanks for the reply May. Interesting though that you have not commented on the account of Samuel's spirit rising from the earth. Though i did not expect you to comment on that because you must actually ignore this section of God's word if you are to hold onto the concept of total destruction.

The verse in Job shows that the spirit is not the breath of God - it clearly distinguishes between the two. First it states that man does have a spirit and second it states that it is the breath of God which gives man understanding. So the spirit though you describe it as a life force, is more than just this, because it is an entity or thing which is formed by God within man. Therefore showing that it is separate from man ie. the body.

The spirit inside of you is the real you - your body is merely a shell by which your spirit can live out a life on earth. When the body dies your spirit returns to God who gave it - why does it return to God?

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment

All will be judged - all will appear before God, hence the spirit returns to God inorder for this judgement. I'd like to have a quick look at the verse in Matthew 10:28 that you covered there - i noticed that you did not quote the first part of the verse.

Mt 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Lu 12:4 "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

May i ask how you believe the body can be killed and yet the soul still remain alive. (The soul in this case meaning the spirit of the man). Since you do not believe in such a place as hell, you must interpret hell here to mean the grave - so who is Jesus talking about that can destroy both the soul and the body in the grave? The body and the soul must still be 'alive' in the grave under your interpretation if they can then both be destroyed. Why then are we not to fear those that can kill just the body? Total destruction occurs as you state as soon as we die - therefore there should be no distinction between the two parts of this verse...

By referring to the "soul" separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him.

Yes, that is totally correct. That is what destroyed in this case means - it doesn't mean total annhilation wherein the person ceases to exist. When a person is sent to hell their life prospects are completely destroyed - they have no hope of anything, because they are there for eternity. They are lost for eternity - nothing remains for them.
As to the concept of a second death - you should believe in no such thing May - for you believe in total destruction when a person dies. How can there be such a thing as a second death - unless of course it is not the end when we die the first time...

In anycase the account of Samuel is what should really stay with you. I'm not hear trying to force my view down anyone's throat, but if you are serious about God's word being the truth May then that's great and we will come to the right conclusion . But if you are prepared to ignore sections of God's word then there's no point - i don't know which you are.

 

[James the Persian]

When Adam and Eve died, they had no prospect of benefiting from Christ’s ransom sacrifice. Rather, they went to Gehenna. they have no hope of a resurrection,it was total destruction for them ,but most people who die go to sheol which is mankinds common grave, the same as hades is mankinds common grave.

Are you saying here that Adam and Eve have no hope of salvation? If so, why do you believe this and is it specific to Adam and Eve alone or to all people who lived prior to the Incarnation? I've never actually heard anyone make this argument before and it sounds as if you are claiming to know God's mind. I have no knowledge of who will or will not be saved, but I do know that the Scriptures state that God wills that all men will be saved - there's no exclusion for Adam and Eve there. I certainly wouldn't want to state what any individual's eternal fate will be.

James

 

[may]

Thanks for the reply May. Interesting though that you have not commented on the account of Samuel's spirit rising from the earth. Though i did not expect you to comment on that because you must actually ignore this section of God's word if you are to hold onto the concept of total destruction.

The verse in Job shows that the spirit is not the breath of God - it clearly distinguishes between the two. First it states that man does have a spirit and second it states that it is the breath of God which gives man understanding. So the spirit though you describe it as a life force, is more than just this, because it is an entity or thing which is formed by God within man. Therefore showing that it is separate from man ie. the body.

The spirit inside of you is the real you - your body is merely a shell by which your spirit can live out a life on earth. When the body dies your spirit returns to God who gave it - why does it return to God?

All will be judged - all will appear before God, hence the spirit returns to God inorder for this judgement. I'd like to have a quick look at the verse in Matthew 10:28 that you covered there - i noticed that you did not quote the first part of the verse.

May i ask how you believe the body can be killed and yet the soul still remain alive. (The soul in this case meaning the spirit of the man). Since you do not believe in such a place as hell, you must interpret hell here to mean the grave - so who is Jesus talking about that can destroy both the soul and the body in the grave? The body and the soul must still be 'alive' in the grave under your interpretation if they can then both be destroyed. Why then are we not to fear those that can kill just the body? Total destruction occurs as you state as soon as we die - therefore there should be no distinction between the two parts of this verse...

Yes, that is totally correct. That is what destroyed in this case means - it doesn't mean total annhilation wherein the person ceases to exist. When a person is sent to hell their life prospects are completely destroyed - they have no hope of anything, because they are there for eternity. They are lost for eternity - nothing remains for them.
As to the concept of a second death - you should believe in no such thing May - for you believe in total destruction when a person dies. How can there be such a thing as a second death - unless of course it is not the end when we die the first time...

In anycase the account of Samuel is what should really stay with you. I'm not hear trying to force my view down anyone's throat, but if you are serious about God's word being the truth May then that's great and we will come to the right conclusion . But if you are prepared to ignore sections of God's word then there's no point - i don't know which you are.

The account found at 1 Samuel 28:3-20. Verses 13, 14 show that Saul himself did not see Samuel but only assumed from the description given by the spirit medium that she saw Samuel. Saul desperately wanted to believe that it was Samuel and so let himself be deceived. Verse 3 says that Samuel was dead and buried. these verses make clear that there was no part of Samuel that was alive in another realm and able to communicate with Saul.

Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10:

The voice that pretended to be that of Samuel was that of an impostor, the same way that the demons now pretend to be dead people when they work through spirit mediums,no wonder that Jehovah tells his people to have nothing to do with spirit mediums , Jehovah knows it is falsehood, remember that saul was unfaithful to Jehovah .if he was faithful he would not have had any dealings with a spirit medium because it was prohibited so he didnt see it the spirit medium did, the bible tells it as it was

Ezek. 18:4, 20: "The soul that is sinning—it itself will die." (So the soul is not something that survives the death of the body and with which living humans can thereafter communicate.)

Ps. 146:4: "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish." (When the spirit is said to ‘go out’ of the body, this is merely another way of saying that the life-force has ceased to be active. Thus, after a person dies, his spirit does not exist as an immaterial being that can think and carry out plans apart from the body. It is not something with which the living can communicate after a person’s death.) also those who go to sheol or hades have the hope of a resurrection , if they are in Jehovahs memory ,he knows how to resurrect an individual he knows the formation of us, it is no big deal for Jehovah to remember how to get us back

Being infinite in wisdom and perfect in memory, Jehovah God can easily resurrect a person. Remembering the life pattern of dead ones—their personality traits, their personal history, and all the details of their identity—is not a problem for him. so when we die we go to dust , we dont need a shadowy thing in us , Jehovah can work it out how to resurrect us again it is as if we have gone to sleep and then he can wake us up again

(Job 14:13) O that in She´ol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!

Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice John 5;28 those in Jehovahs memory,he will remember them.............. notice that the rightous and the unrightous are ressurected, and they will be judged on how they live their lives from then on ,not on their past deeds before they died, righteous ones will get everlasting life because they died faithful , but unrighteous ones have to learn about Jehovah and then have the chance to get everlasting life also. but if they dont want to live how Jehovah wants them too, they will get the second death which will be total destruction.

and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous Acts 24;15

 

[may]

Are you saying here that Adam and Eve have no hope of salvation? If so, why do you believe this and is it specific to Adam and Eve alone or to all people who lived prior to the Incarnation? I've never actually heard anyone make this argument before and it sounds as if you are claiming to know God's mind. I have no knowledge of who will or will not be saved, but I do know that the Scriptures state that God wills that all men will be saved - there's no exclusion for Adam and Eve there. I certainly wouldn't want to state what any individual's eternal fate will be.

James

The Scriptures speak of only two possibilities for the dead—the temporary state of nonexistence and the state of eternal death. Those who are judged unworthy of a resurrection are pitched into "Gehenna," or "the lake of fire." (Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:47, 48; Revelation 20:14) Among these would be the first human pair, Adam and Eve, the betrayer Judas Iscariot, and certain ones who died when God executed judgment upon them, such as the people in Noah’s day and the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. At death, those who will be favored with a resurrection go to the common grave of mankind—Sheol, or Hades. Speaking of their future, the Bible states: "The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds."—Revelation 20:13

 

[Endless]

Hi May,
Let me just highlight somethings that came to my attention:

The account found at 1 Samuel 28:3-20. Verses 13, 14 show that Saul himself did not see Samuel but only assumed from the description given by the spirit medium that she saw Samuel. Saul desperately wanted to believe that it was Samuel and so let himself be deceived. Verse 3 says that Samuel was dead and buried. these verses make clear that there was no part of Samuel that was alive in another realm and able to communicate with Saul.

No, verse 3 doesn't. It actually makes clear that Samuel had died and his body buried, it mentions nothing about anyone part of Samuel that may exist or that may not exist. However in the following verses we have an account that the spiritist/medium saw a spirit rise out of the earth, described it and Saul acknowledged that it was Samuel. About this section you wrote:

The voice that pretended to be that of Samuel was that of an impostor, the same way that the demons now pretend to be dead people when they work through spirit mediums,no wonder that Jehovah tells his people to have nothing to do with spirit mediums , Jehovah knows it is falsehood, remember that saul was unfaithful to Jehovah .if he was faithful he would not have had any dealings with a spirit medium because it was prohibited so he didnt see it the spirit medium did, the bible tells it as it was

This is your interpretation, but the Bible never comments on this. Infact from the narative it can only be assumed that Samuel really did come up to Saul, because the Bible does not quote the medium as saying,' Samuel says' but the Bible quotes 'Samuel said'. There is more - because from the narative this does not seem to be a normal seance.

1Sa 28:12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!"

Something scared her - there was something different about the spirit rising from the ground compared to what she was used to. She then realised that it was Saul the King that she was doing this for which scared her all the more. No, from the account given i believe that it was the spirit of Samuel that God allowed to appear - which was what scared the medium so much.

In anycase there is just this verse i would like to bring to your attention and wondered whether you could comment on it. This is Samuel's spirit that was raised up speaking:

1Sa 28:19 "Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."

 

[may]

Hi May,
Let me just highlight somethings that came to my attention:


No, verse 3 doesn't. It actually makes clear that Samuel had died and his body buried, it mentions nothing about anyone part of Samuel that may exist or that may not exist. However in the following verses we have an account that the spiritist/medium saw a spirit rise out of the earth, described it and Saul acknowledged that it was Samuel. About this section you wrote:


This is your interpretation, but the Bible never comments on this. Infact from the narative it can only be assumed that Samuel really did come up to Saul, because the Bible does not quote the medium as saying,' Samuel says' but the Bible quotes 'Samuel said'. There is more - because from the narative this does not seem to be a normal seance.

Something scared her - there was something different about the spirit rising from the ground compared to what she was used to. She then realised that it was Saul the King that she was doing this for which scared her all the more. No, from the account given i believe that it was the spirit of Samuel that God allowed to appear - which was what scared the medium so much.

In anycase there is just this verse i would like to bring to your attention and wondered whether you could comment on it. This is Samuel's spirit that was raised up speaking:

If people go to a spirit medium today , and the demons pretend to be loved ones of ours, it does not make it true , the demons are very clever and always have been , i am not saying that the medium did not see what she thought was samuel, the demons work though the spirit mediums , but going back to Gods word the bible will always give us the correct thoughts on dead people .
The truth about the condition of the dead is clearly stated in the Bible. But who tried to deceive the first human pair about death? Satan contradicted God’s warning that disobedience would bring death. (Gen. 3:4; Rev. 12:9) In time, of course, it became obvious that humans did die as God said they would. Reasonably, then, who was responsible for inventing the idea that humans really do not die but that some spirit part of man survives the death of the body? Such a deception fits Satan the Devil, whom Jesus described as "the father of the lie." (John 8:44; see also 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10.) Belief that the dead are really alive in another realm and that we can communicate with them has not benefited mankind. On the contrary, Revelation 18:23 says that, by means of the spiritistic practices of Babylon the Great, "all the nations were misled." The spiritistic practice of ‘talking with the dead’ is actually a fraudulent deception that can put people in contact with the demons (angels that became selfish rebels against God) and often leads to a person’s hearing unwanted voices and being harassed by those wicked spirits

 

[Endless]

What is a spirit?

 

[may]

What is a spirit?

Spirit​

​

Definition: The Hebrew word ru´ach and the Greek pneu´ma, which are often translated "spirit," have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and that causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired utterances originating with an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s active force, or holy spirit.

Soul​

​

Definition: In the Bible, "soul" is translated from the Hebrew ne´phesh and the Greek psy·khe´. Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. To many persons, however, "soul" means the immaterial or spirit part of a human being that survives the death of the physical body. Others understand it to be the principle of life. But these latter views are not Bible teachings.

 

[Endless]

So how is it possible to kill the body without killing the soul?

Mt 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Lu 12:4 "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

May i ask how you believe the body can be killed and yet the soul still remain alive. (The soul in this case meaning the spirit of the man). Since you do not believe in such a place as hell, you must interpret hell here to mean the grave - so who is Jesus talking about that can destroy both the soul and the body in the grave? The body and the soul must still be 'alive' in the grave under your interpretation if they can then both be destroyed. Why then are we not to fear those that can kill just the body? Total destruction occurs as you state as soon as we die - therefore there should be no distinction between the two parts of this verse...

Finally did those who wrote the OT believe that after death there was such a thing as a spirit which did not die - was that believed in the Jewish culture at that time?

 

[may]

So how is it possible to kill the body without killing the soul?


Finally did those who wrote the OT believe that after death there was such a thing as a spirit which did not die - was that believed in the Jewish culture at that time?

Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him [Jehovah] that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." (Matthew 10:28) Commenting on this passage in his book Immortality of the Soul or Resurrection of the Dead? (French), Professor Oscar Cullmann writes: "psy·khe´ [soul] here does not mean the Greek concept of soul but should rather be translated ‘life’. . . . W. G. Kümmel . . . also writes with good reason: Matt. 10:28 ‘does not seek to highlight the immortality of the soul, but underlines the fact that God alone can destroy not only earthly life but also heavenly life.’" Yes, Gehenna represents utter destruction from which no resurrection is possible. The New Bible Commentary (Second Edition, page 786) defines Gehenna as "a description of ‘the second death.’"—Revelation 21:8

 

[may]

Matthew 10:28: "Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." Regarding this text, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (edited by C. Brown, 1978, Vol. 3, p. 304) states: "Matt. 10:28 teaches not the potential immortality of the soul but the irreversibility of divine judgment on the unrepentant." Also, Bauer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (revised by F. W. Gingrich and F. Danker, 1979, p. 95) gives the meaning "eternal death" with reference to the Greek phrase in Matthew 10:28 translated "destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." so being consigned to Gehenna refers to utter destruction from which no resurrection is possible

 

[Endless]

I'm talking about the first part of the verse May, not the second which those interpretations refer to. Tell me how it is possible to kill the body without killing the soul?

 

[may]

I'm talking about the first part of the verse May, not the second which those interpretations refer to. Tell me how it is possible to kill the body without killing the soul?

As the soul is not a shadowy thing that floats off to God , my posts are talking about the soul and does explain it, but if people have a preconcieved idea about what the soul is, i can see why you are confused,our future life prospects do not die because Jehovah is able to resurrect us .so if a person is killed the body dies ,but noone can take the resurrection hope away because we can live again so we dont need to fear man because even if men kill us it is not the end. hope that makes sense .so it is God who we should fear , because he is the one who decides if we have life or not
reverential fear of God, not a morbid fear

 

[Endless]

So you believe the Bible teaches a man's soul as being the man's 'future prospects'. In other words, man dies and that is the end, but God ressurects all back to life again, he judges the people - those that aren't fit for his kingdom he kills so they die again (the second death). At this point the person's 'soul' dies for they have no future prospects.

The Bible talks an awful lot about the soul, so could you show me where it teaches that a person's soul is actually talking about what happens to that person at the second death - ie. Whether they live or die once being ressurected again.

 

[may]

So you believe the Bible teaches a man's soul as being the man's 'future prospects'. In other words, man dies and that is the end, but God ressurects all back to life again, he judges the people - those that aren't fit for his kingdom he kills so they die again (the second death). At this point the person's 'soul' dies for they have no future prospects.

The Bible talks an awful lot about the soul, so could you show me where it teaches that a person's soul is actually talking about what happens to that person at the second death - ie. Whether they live or die once being ressurected again.

post 33 mentions what the soul is, our future prospects are in Gods hands as to wether we have life or not.