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Death Hell And The Devil .

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by bhakthi, Nov 25, 2005.

  1. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Bhakthi
    Death Hell And The Devil .
    “ Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death- the lake of fire. And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation;20:15.The Lake of fire is prepared for the Devil and his angels.[Mathew;25] But it looks like when the Death and Hades are thrown into this lake of fire the lake of fire turns into Second Death.This is the worst form of death.It is eternal torment.Hell and Hades are two different places.Hades or Sheol is the place where the wicked and the unsaved souls go when they die..The rich man ended up here after his earthly life and being tormented in the flames cried out to Abraham, “Have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' Luke;16:24 “There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The Lord said

    .“The wicked shall be turned into Sheol, And all the nations that forget God.”Psalm;9:17.It is not clear if there is “worm that does not die’ in Hades.But in hell there is.Will anyone be cast into the lake of fire before the final judgment?Listen to what the Lord said,"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.To those who are gathered on his left hand He will say,'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:” And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Mathew;25:31-41.Here the question arises, “Are angels immortal?” “Do they have immortality?” The evil angels are hurt by the second death since the Lake of fire is the second death. “The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”Revelation;20:10 The great white thrown judgment comes after this.“Anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire”ch:20:15 Then what Isaiah spoke will come to pass. “And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord. "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."Isaiah;66:23,24
     
  2. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the bible is full of sybolism but as a God of love he would never ever torment people . how any one can think that God would do that allways amazes me i think people need to gain a more accurate knowledge of the bible ,and the God it represents .there is no such thing as a litral hell fire. judgement yes , total destuction yes, but not litral torment .of coarse you may already realize that it is only sybolism and not litral ,maybe i am wrong in thinking that you believe it to be litral?
     
  3. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    BHAKTHI-
    God is Love , True .At the same time He is the God of Judgment too.This is the same God who rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.It is true once before he wiped out the entire population by a big flood only eight people remained-Noah and his family.
    Listen to what Jesus said,
    “Even now the ax is ready to strike the root of the trees! Therefore every tree that doesn't produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."Luke;3:9

    “ No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well!" Luke;13:5

     
  4. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    i just tend to take everything about it figurativley... i dont think there is a hell... unless we create it ourselves...

    just my opinion though...
     
  5. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Jehovah​
    is taking knowledge of the way of righteous ones, but the very way of wicked ones will perish.—Ps. 1:6.





    If we are pursuing an upright course, we can be sure that our heavenly Father gives recognition to our godly life and really cares for us. (Ezek. 34:11; 1 Pet. 5:6, 7) "The way of righteous ones" will remain forever, but incorrigibly wicked people will perish because of Jehovah’s adverse judgment. And their "way," or course of life, will end with them. We can have confidence in the fulfillment of David’s words: "Just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; and you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." (Ps. 37:10, 11) What happiness we will experience if we are privileged to live on a paradise earth when wicked ones no longer exist

     
  6. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    The Bible should be taken literally. Why would a God that wants us to all get to Heaven want to confuse us by having us pick out the things that should be taken literally and the things that shouldnot be taken literally?

    People who say the Bible should not be taken literally only say this so that they may pick and choose what they want to believe. If you don't like something, like the idea of millions of people burning in Hell, you say "Well, that can't be right. My God would never do that. It must be symbolical." Well here's a little newsflash for ya- you don't know. Who are we to understand the mind of God? He is God. A loving God, but a God that will punish.
     
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  7. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    Maybe you can read the bible and pretend it says what you want but the reality of Hell is one thing that is very hard to miss. Jesus spoke often of Hell and warned people constantly about it, often using the term weaping and nashing of teeth etc and about your mention of torment perhaps you should read your Bible to get your ideas about hell rather then your latest watchtower publication.
    And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." Revelation 14:11

    I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Luke 12:4-5

    If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Hebrews 10:26-27

    “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ Luke 16:24

    And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where
    " 'their worm does not die,
    and the fire is not quenched.' Mark 9:47-48
     
  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes and the punishment is death , not everlasting torture . we have the choice of one or the other life or death the idea of burning people in fire is not something that even comes up in to the heart of God . it is unthinkable for God
    And they have built the high places of To´pheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hin´nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart...... Jeremiah 7;31


    (Jeremiah 19:5) And they built the high places of the Ba´al in order to burn their sons in the fire as whole burnt offerings to the Ba´al, something that I had not commanded or spoken of, and that had not come up into my heart."....... no its only evil influence that is in to that sort of thing . its amazing how false religion still has an influence over people even now ,by teaching false hellfire teachings. certainly not an accurate knowledge of the bible the truth about the bible certainly sets us free from falsehood.

     
  9. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    1. If someone takes absolutley NOTHING in the Bible literally, then how is that picking and choosing?

    2. You're right, we dont know. But you choose to believe in the Christian God, therefore you've picked and chosen what you want to believe in as well. What makes you think you understand the mind of God any more than anyone else simply because of a book?
     
  10. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    did you not know that Jesus used many many illustrations to get a point over and that the book of revelation is full of signs and symbolism . accurate knowledge of the bible is most beneficial, i feel that a bit more research will do wonders for you ,i know it has for me:) Many religious organizations teach that the wicked are tormented endlessly in a hellfire. But is this belief taught in God’s Word? You may know the meaning that your own particular church organization gives to "hell," but have you ever investigated to see the meaning given it in the Scriptures? What is hell according to the Bible?


    The Bible "hell" is actually mankind’s grave

    the Greek word hádes. and the Hebrew word sheol are translated as hell and they mean mankinds common grave and the word Gehenna is a symbol of total destruction

    Gehenna occurs twelve times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, and refers to the valley of Hinnom outside the walls of Jerusalem. When Jesus was on earth this valley was used as a huge garbage dump where fires were kept burning by adding brimstone (sulfur) to burn up the refuse. Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible, Volume I, explains: "It became the common lay-stall [garbage dump] of the city, where the dead bodies of criminals, and the carcasses of animals, and every other kind of filth was cast."​

    So when Jesus said that persons would be thrown into Gehenna for their bad deeds, what did he mean? Not that they would be tormented forever. Jesus used that valley (Gehenna) of fire and brimstone as a proper symbol of everlasting destruction. That is what his first-century listeners understood it to mean. ..........................................
    oh and by the way i think the watchtower mags which are great reading material are just great you never know, dont be shy , it wont bite you ;) taste and see that it is good


     
  11. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    Have you ever considered that the not everthing it the bible is illustrations and symbolism?
    And even if Jesus was using illustrations to get his point across, what was his point? Was he using false doctrine to try and scare people into heaven? Its clear what he taught - tell me what is the meaning behind the following?
    There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
    "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
    "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' Luke 16:19-26

    Kind of makes me wonder why Jesus so often refered to it as fiery hell, eternal fire etc and why its also called the lake of fire- its not just a grave.
    "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
    "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
    "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
    "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
    Matt 25:41-46

    And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where
    " 'their worm does not die,
    and the fire is not quenched.' Mark 9:47-48
     
  12. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Who, then, was pictured by the rich man and who by Lazarus? What was represented by their deaths? The rich man pictured the self-important religious leaders who failed to feed the people spiritually, and Lazarus pictured the common people who accepted Jesus Christ. Their deaths represented a change in their condition.




    This change, or death to the former condition of the rich man and of Lazarus, occurred when Jesus fed the neglected Lazaruslike people spiritually. Thus, they came into the favor of the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God. At the same time, the self-important Jewish religious leaders "died" with respect to having God’s favor and came to be tormented by the teachings of Christ and his followers. For example, when Stephen publicly exposed them, "they felt cut to their hearts and began to gnash their teeth . . . and put their hands over their ears." They felt torment.—Acts 7:51-57.​

    So rather than teaching a fiery-hell torment after death, Jesus’ story describes the change of condition that his teachings accomplished among two classes of people.

     
  13. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Jesus points to destruction by fire. In Jesus’ day the Gehenna, or Valley of Hinnom, that he mentioned lay to the south and southwest of Jerusalem. His words confirm the fact that this Gehenna was used as an incinerator for the rubbish of the city and that the corpses of criminals considered unworthy of honorable burial with a resurrection hope were pitched into it. If a corpse failed to land in the fire but fell upon a slope or ledge that was warmed by the Gehenna fire, it would decompose and be consumed by the maggots that bred. The fire was kept burning continuously, day and night, in order to consume completely what was pitched into the city’s dumping ground. So Gehenna became a symbol of everlasting destruction, as when Jesus said to the Jewish scribes and Pharisees: "Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are you to flee from the judgment of Gehenna?"—Matt. 23:33.




    Those who are sentenced to Gehenna do not enter into the kingdom of God, either the heavenly rule with Christ or its earthly realm during the millennial reign of Christ. Those whom God sentences to Gehenna do not enter into life at all, even though having all their body members. Hence, Gehenna pictures the state of nonexistence, annihilation, destruction by the adverse judgment of God. Just as the hypocritical scribes and Pharisees of Jesus’ day stumbled themselves into Gehenna,

     
  14. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Bhakthis-
    Then what does it mean when St.Jude wrote like this
    "But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
    Jude;1:1-7
    “Even now the ax is ready to strike the root of the trees! Therefore every tree that doesn't produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."Luke;3:9
     
  15. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    everlasting destruction, judgment leads to everlasting life or everlasting death we have a choice fire symbolizes total destruction not everlasting torment
     
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  16. Dentonz

    Dentonz Member

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    For the sake of most I hope it's not literal. But If you claim to believe what the Bible says you pretty much have to believe in a literal hell.
    There is no man that has ever lived that has the capacity to understand the righteousness or holiness of God, nor has the right or authority to judge what God deems as judgment. So I'm going to personally believe what the Bible says and follow its teachings as literal as possible. How can we decide what the Bible means literally and what it doesn't?

    I know this is not a debate forum, I hope I don't seem to be attacking your belief. I'm just trying to express my own.

    Peace, Denton
     
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  17. Endless

    Endless Active Member

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    May,
    Could you give me a verse in the Bible that supports this 'total destruction'? As already posted up there are plently of verses of God's word that state and support that there is everlasting torment in fire. Now, why should we interpret these as anything but literal? If you have no other verse that states that there is total destruction then total destruction is a concept made up by man that you twist God's word to fit. God's word cannot ever be twisted or made to mean something else just because man has come up with an idea.
    Where is the authority of this 'total destruction' that is found in the Bible?
     
  18. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

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    Good posts May....I agree with you on this. You get Frubals.
     
  19. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    . All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust." (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) There is no mention here of a fiery hell. Humans return to dust—to nonexistence—when they die

    For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust

    All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She´ol, the place to which you are going...ecclesiastes 9;10

    (Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return. .....Adam and eve were sinners but they went to dust not hellfire

     
  20. Endless

    Endless Active Member

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    Hi May,
    I think you must make a distinction between the body and the spirit - the body was made from dust and the body will return to dust. The body will descend to the grave - to the earth. Now you must be sure to look at the context of the scripture and see whether She´ol is meaning the earthly grave where the body will lie, or whether it means the 'underworld' ie. hell.
    In anycase consider the following:

    A clear distinction between the body and the spirit - the dust returns to the earth (the body) but the spirit returns to God who gave it.
    So i ask again, where are the verses that speak of total destruction?
     
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