• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Creationist article!

PennyKay

Physicist
I was researching why certain people don't think evolution is correct, in doing so I came across this website.

Wonderings About Evolution

There are so many facts wrong with this article that it actually made me quite angry reading it.

I just wondered if there are any creationists who actually agree with this article? Or if this is just another misinformed daft attempt to disregard evolution and all the progress scientists have made over the past 150 years?

As always all thoughts welcome...
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Oh good Lord. I knew I shouldn't have read it. I feel I've lost more braincells from skimming it than I would have if I'd just banged my head against the wall. You should've put a warning on it. :D

I think this is what most creationists will believe regarding evolution, so I doubt many of them will see much wrong with it.

It seems a quite common misunderstanding with creationists on evolution is that they think one day a dinosaur sat down and gave birth to an egg, out of which a chicken hatched, for example. We know that's not true, but I've heard such things: they seem to imagine evolution is a stop-start-stop motion, where there are sudden, HUGE changes, and then nothing (or nothing) again for a while, but then there will be another HUGE one later on.

The video game "Spore" kind of comes to mind as to how evolution is often seen by them.

It will be interesting to see if any creationists disagree with that link, though.
 

fossil

Member
Ha ha. I looked at the conservapedia artilce that it links to, wondering if they would go on about Hitler. Sure enough...
ps, what is a frubal and why do I have 11 of them
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
A frubal is basically a "thanks", or "reputation points", if you like. You have 11 because you start at 10, and someone has liked something you have posted. When 2 people like what you have posted, you will have 12.. and so on. Before you could obtain larger numbers, but they are currently fixed at 1 frubal per "reward", since the numbers became so heavy it started to affect the coding.

Welcome to RF, by the way. :)
 

outhouse

Atheistically
this is just another misinformed daft attempt to disregard evolution and all the progress scientists have made over the past 150 years?

I think your on the money here Penny

the thing is uneducated religious religious people read this and go "yep" i knew it was garbage.

they choose to live in blindness to the reality around them
 

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
The funny thing is the author of this particular article finished it and probably said "Up yours atheist, up yours science. Bible FTWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW"

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
 

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
Ha ha. I looked at the conservapedia artilce that it links to, wondering if they would go on about Hitler. Sure enough...
ps, what is a frubal and why do I have 11 of them

If you click on the "User CP" in the menu bar above it will give you a run down of who gave you the frubal, and also the people you have frubal'd.
 

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
I was researching why certain people don't think evolution is correct, in doing so I came across this website.

Wonderings About Evolution

There are so many facts wrong with this article that it actually made me quite angry reading it.

I just wondered if there are any creationists who actually agree with this article? Or if this is just another misinformed daft attempt to disregard evolution and all the progress scientists have made over the past 150 years?

As always all thoughts welcome...

You've got to love the clear bias in the conservapedia article. They don't even try to be neutral on the subject.

I followed a reference that says 60% of american doctors dont believe in darwinian evolution to a "discovery".org site that gives a reference to the actual poll and *GASP* the link is broken/non-existent.

-Q
 

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
I agree with the conclusions of the article. Whether every word or idea is correct doesn't matter. It doesn't appear to be a peer reviewed scientific article, just someones conclusion from the scientific data. It makes sense to me.
 

RedOne77

Active Member
My favorite is #14

Explain metamorphosis!
How can evolution explain the metamorphosis of the butterfly? Once the caterpillar evolves into the "mass of jelly" (out of which the butterfly comes), wouldn't it appear to be "stuck"?

Take that evilutionists! If I didn't know better I would call out Poe, but sadly I've met many creationists that hold similar views as the ones expressed in this article.
 

Ace7X

Member
I was researching why certain people don't think evolution is correct, in doing so I came across this website.

Wonderings About Evolution

There are so many facts wrong with this article that it actually made me quite angry reading it.

I just wondered if there are any creationists who actually agree with this article? Or if this is just another misinformed daft attempt to disregard evolution and all the progress scientists have made over the past 150 years?

As always all thoughts welcome...

counter-arguments to the points in the message please
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Wow.... that was... special.

1) Nothing to do with evolution. Ask an astrophysicist.
2) Nothing to do with evolution. Ask a physicist.
3) Biology is all about decay, life requires the second law of thermodynamics to produce energy. Order in the system is only temporary. And who says the early universe was more disordered than it is now?
4)"information" is a buzzword with no viable definition. Genes have been demonstrated to be able to arise naturally via mutation.
5) Someone has some wacky math.
6) Chemistry and selection are not chance.
7) So are snowflakes, but we don't need a magic man to intelligently design them.
8) Someone doesn't understand transitional fossils. They are never held up for a single feature or a single bone.
9) Yes, yes they can.... many still do.
10) Someone is unaware of the plethora of animals that can reproduce both sexually and asexually.
11) Someone is unaware of the plethora of critters that can photosynthesize and are not plants. Algae for example. Some can even do both photosynthesis and hunt for other food.
12) Pretty much like it explains anything else. There is a wide range of symbiotic relationships that demonstrate various levels of "development".
13) What the heck is a "complete" eye, wing, ear or whatever? What makes our eye more or less complete than that of a planarian?
14) Someone has weird views of metamorphosis.... caterpillars never go through a "mass of jelly" phase... All they really do is add wings and lengthen their already present legs... a process controlled by the switching on and off of Hox genes.
15) it is and we have... even though people like to ignore it and come up with reasons to move the goal posts so they don't have accept it.
16) An intelligent designer would have to be complex.... so who designed the designer? This argument requires a nesting doll of logical fallacy.

Wow... they managed to fit just about every creationist fallacy into one list. I'm a little surprised the "why are there monkeys" question didn't come up.

wa:do
 

Ace7X

Member
'
16) An intelligent designer would have to be complex.... so who designed the designer? This argument requires a nesting doll of logical fallacy.

"A day will certainly come when some people will sit with their legs crossed and ask: 'If God created everything, who created God?' "
(Sahih al-Bukhari,256 H)

Is this really a strong argument against God’s existence? If, in one’s mind, God is just a complex being, such as “the ultimate Boeing 747”(p. 138) airplane in the sky, then this might be a meaningful question to ask. But when one defines God as the Being who created everything – as all Christians, Jews, Muslims, and many Hindus and Buddhists do – then, by definition God is not created; God would not be God if God had been.

This idea is best demonstrated by a metaphor.3 In a moving train, each car is seemingly pulled by the one before. But the locomotive is not pulled by anything, and it pulls all the other cars. The question, “Who pulls the locomotive?” is meaningless because the locomotive does not need to be pulled. The concept of “being pulled” simply does not apply to the locomotive. Similarly, in the infinite regress of creation, God, is the locomotive, which makes the question, “Who created God?” meaningless. As a result, Dawkins’ argument against the existence of God, the argument that according to him makes the existence of God highly improbable, is nothing but a meaningless, paradoxical question. One could respond by saying, “The fact that a question can be phrased in a grammatically correct English sentence doesn’t make it meaningful” .

“Coincidence is the word we use when we can't see the levers and pulleys.”

Of course, what atheists like Dawkins truly mean by this question is: “If every form of existence needs a cause, how can God exist without a cause? And if God can exist without a cause, then why can’t the universe exist without a cause?” A logical response would be that every existence does not need a cause, but that everything that has a beginning needs a cause. The universe has a beginning; therefore, it needs a cause. According to the theory of relativity, time is a dimension of this universe. Therefore, time is also part of this nature (natural). Dawkins’ definition itself states that “God is supernatural,” which means He is beyond and above anything in this universe, including time. If that is so, then God is eternal (timeless); He has neither beginning nor end; hence, He does not need a cause.

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief!" (Quran, 52:35-36)

God is the One and Only;
God, the Eternal, Absolute;
God begetteth not, nor is God begotten;
And there is none like unto God.
Surah 112. Al-Ikhlas (The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah)

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"
(The Qur'an, 21:30)

In the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51:47)

The word "heaven", as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur'an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur'an it is revealed that the universe "expands". And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.

"And do not follow (blindly) any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception, you must verify it for yourself). In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning." [ Qur'an, 17:36 ]
 
Last edited:
'
"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief!" (Quran, 52:35-36)

God is the One and Only;
God, the Eternal, Absolute;
God begetteth not, nor is God begotten;
And there is none like unto God.
Surah 112. Al-Ikhlas (The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah)

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"
(The Qur'an, 21:30)

O.K., if the angel Gabriel told Mohammed a supreme intelligence doesn't have to have a beginning or cause but the mundane natural world does that's good enough for me!

In the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51:47)

The word "heaven", as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur'an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur'an it is revealed that the universe "expands". And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.

Yeah I'm always suspect of the revisionist potential in modern a posteriori translations.

So where in the Qur'an can I find extinct hominids? dinosaurs? heck even a few lines about New World peoples Allah surely knew about.
 
Last edited:

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Ah, the old "God doesn't count" argument.... I didn't see that one coming.

Actually, things were pretty advanced in the 14th century.... lots of groundwork had already been done by previous cultures like the Egyptians, Greeks, Yuan Dynasty and Romans.
Much of Europe aside, the rest of the world was doing just fine in the knowledge area.
Heck, the Mayans had long since developed advanced mathematics.

wa:do
 

Ace7X

Member
Actually, it appears that the universe very likely does not have a beginning. FAIL

Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big bang theory is an effort to explain what happened during and after that moment.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"
(The Qur'an, 21:30)

Autodidact - EPIC FAIL

 
Top