Covid, Politics, and Health - What is your viewpoint?

[Kenny]

I think we are better now than before overall, but I feel Covid has been so weaponized and politicized, its making me think the masking and restrictions are actually being planned to be permanent and indefinite.

It certainly has that hue...

I remember a quote by Benjamin Franklin:

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I wonder if this is applicable?

 

[Kenny]

you just flunked statistics, testing numbers has to do with how many people are tested, california tested the most

please provide a source. Additionally, I was taking "deaths" statistics which cannot be altered.

 

[Lyndon]

calif double the testing rate of texas, florida still noticeably worse than calif, new york much better than all of them, so leans dem states more testing

All State Comparison of Testing Efforts - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

 

[Twilight Hue]

It certainly has that hue...

I remember a quote by Benjamin Franklin:

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I wonder if this is applicable?

It's a reason why I'm comparing Covid to past related pandemics and its duration (such as the Spanish flu) to see if something rotton is going on right now with Covid management.

There is no reason this particular pandemic should exceed the time frame of past pandemics when our tech and medical capabilities are much more advanced now than in the past.

 

[sun rise]

Looking at numbers and methods... not sure why that is poor methodology.

California is "home" to a mutation that is more transmissible and may bypass vaccinations somewhat for one thing.

 

[sun rise]

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

So you're against seat belts, helmets for motorcyclists and bicyclists, vaccinations in general, and so forth claiming that they give up ESSENTIAL Liberty I take it.

And it's perfectly OK with you to endanger other people by your actions. So, by extension, laws against drunk driving are infringing on essential liberty as well.

After all, wearing and mask and keeping 6' from people is so intrusive on your sacred rights.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

View attachment 48132


Covid Deaths

View attachment 48133

Infections

View attachment 48134


I find it interesting that we have two approaches to Covid...

Lock down, closing of businesses, mandatory masks, (A democratic party viewpoint if I am not mistaken)

vs

Minimum lock downs, keeping businesses open, personal decision on masks, (A republican party viewpoint if I am not mistaken)

One would think that lock downs, closing of businesses and mandatory masks would produce better results yet the figures are apparently saying something different:

You would think that California and New York deaths would be less than that of Texas and Florida for all the precautions and yet California and New York (NY has the least in population) both have the greatest in deaths.

Infections amounts apparently run concurrent with population regardless of protections or no protections,.

What is your view as to why the precautions of NY and California have no advantage over minimum protections?

U.S. COVID-19 deaths by state | Statista
U.S. COVID-19 cases by state | Statista
US States - Ranked by Population 2021

There is poor compliance here (people still continue to gather and hold indoor events), lack of enforcement, lots of families living in multigeneration housing,so it really doesn't matter how strict it looks on paper. Lots of places here are acting as if nothing's going on.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Looking at numbers and methods... not sure why that is poor methodology.

The numbers alone do not tell you the whole story. New York City with its high population density and high rate of public transit was a perfect breeding ground for the disease. New York City was hit fast and hard before we really knew what we were dealing with or hot to avoid it. That is why just the numbers are misleading. How has New York done since its early outbreak? Probably much better than Texas. Texas has a low population density, that means its initial growth rate would be low regardless of strategies used. Most of us learned a lesson at New York City's very heavy expense.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So you're against seat belts, helmets for motorcyclists and bicyclists, vaccinations in general, .......... .........so intrusive on your sacred rights.

So little regard reserved for people to make their own individual decisions.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There is poor compliance here (people still continue to gather and hold indoor events), lack of enforcement, lots of families living in multigeneration housing,so it really doesn't matter how strict it looks on paper. Lots of places here are acting as if nothing's going on.

You nor anyone else, including me, will ever control human nature.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You nor anyone else, including me, will ever control human nature.

Then why has compliance been better in other places?
It has nothing to do with human nature. Americans are just selfish, entitled, and really don't know the difference between a right and an inconvenience, and widely just can't be bothered to consider how their actions effect others.

 

[sun rise]

So little regard reserved for people to make their own individual decisions.

When someone's individual decision affects many other people, my answer is no. It seems others are just fine if someone with COVID infects 50 other people and causes several deaths including one child. I'm not.

This is the same to me as laws against drunk driving which impinge on people's ability to make an individual decision to drive plastered out of their minds.

I'd prefer a world where people felt a strong sense of acting in a responsible manner. But if people insist on selfish behavior that puts many others at risk, then I'm going to call for government to enforce what people won't do voluntarily whether that be drunk driving or anything else.

If the deaths of 500,000+ people is not sufficient to have people do the right thing, then the heavy hand of the law should be imposed.

 

[Lyndon]

Thanks to many of our right wing nut jobs, this crisis has been twice as bad as it had to be, if we had just agreed to wear masks and stay home for a couple weeks it wouldn't have taken off like it did.

 

[Subduction Zone]

When someone's individual decision affects many other people, my answer is no. It seems others are just fine if someone with COVID infects 50 other people and causes several deaths including one child. I'm not.

This is the same to me as laws against drunk driving which impinge on people's ability to make an individual decision to drive plastered out of their minds.

I'd prefer a world where people felt a strong sense of acting in a responsible manner. But if people insist on selfish behavior that puts many others at risk, then I'm going to call for government to enforce what people won't do voluntarily whether that be drunk driving or anything else.

If the deaths of 500,000+ people is not sufficient to have people do the right thing, then the heavy hand of the law should be imposed.

Yeah but I have a hot date tonight and I am sure as hell not gonna stay sober:

Who's going to drive?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is no reason this particular pandemic should exceed the time frame of past pandemics when our tech and medical capabilities are much more advanced now than in the past.

It will when people are only focused on me and totally unconcerned about the virus spreading. It will when people keep engaging in high risk activities, such as going to the gym indoors and not wearing a mask. It will continue on as long as people continue to think they'll be ok and shirk safety precautions to do normal things. No, it shouldn't have went on this long or gotten this bad. But because so many people are about "me, me, me, me, me, me" America is indeed suffering with this and seeing it carry on as it shouldn't have.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So little regard reserved for people to make their own individual decisions.

Your rights end where your neighbors nose begins.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Your rights end where your neighbors nose begins.

And vice versa.

Your rights starts when your neighbor intrusively and forcibly pokes in their nose.

Think....

Ever got anywhere with those bass boom cars shaking off your house windows and blowing out our ear drums?

 

[Sunstone]

This is a discussion... I think your post is very divisive.

Sure Ken. Truth and honesty are uniting, though, because they tend towards creating a more or less equally useful and widely shared sense of reality. But not propaganda, even when innocently passed along. Propaganda divides, as all lies do.



Get out your nuts and bolts tools of scholarship, Ken; show me how what I've said can nut by nut, bolt by bolt, be taken apart to be honorably revealed as not substantially true.

If you're willing to do that publicly, then I'll return the favor --- in detail -- cited or linked -- with your name signed on it -- put in perspective, but not smeared or vilified. Put in strictly fact based perspective, without moral speculations.

I'm not even going to come close to telling anyone how to think. Just lay out my side of your side for conclusions reached by anyone else's own reason and judgement. That's no harder for me than writing a freshman paper in philosophy was from day one.

Up for a fun time? A honest time?

If you play, don't accidentally try to BS me. I'm promising too much work for you, if you plan on paying me in BS. I will not accept that currency even from the start. BS ends the game with me not caring enough to even declare victory by default.

 

[Lyndon]

And vice versa.

Your rights starts when your neighbor intrusively and forcibly pokes in their nose.

Think....

Ever got anywhere with those bass boom cars shaking off your house windows and blowing out our ear drums?

nobody ever died from loud bass

 

[Twilight Hue]

nobody ever died from loud bass

Alabama sheriff fatally shot in head over loud music; suspect is son of a deputy: reports

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...aying-rap-music-not-self-defense-court-rules/

A little science added...

Loud bass music ‘killed student’ Tom Reid

Really?