stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I don't struggle with it at all
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COVID killed twice as many republicans as it did democrats.
- Thread starter Father Heathen
- Start date
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Good line for propaganda
I find it hard to choose an approach when responding to anti-vaxers and COVID denialists.
On the one hand, they're the perpetrators: people who inflicted huge amounts of death and suffering on humanity.
On the other hand, they also come across as victims: talking to them make it clear that - generally, at least - they just aren't approaching the issue rationally, as if they simply aren't mentally equipped to deal with the concepts involved.
For some of them, it seems like their science denialism and conspiracy theory thinking is rooted in real harm and injustice they've experienced at the hands of the establishment. They may have gone right off the deep end to irrational conclusions, but that initial push was often something that wasn't their fault at all.
So how should we respond? What they're doing kills people, so it certainly isn't good enough, but is there any point in asking them to do better when it seems like they're incapable of it?
Where should we switch from pity to blame, or vice versa?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Yes you do. You're in denial over the fact that people died due to their own stupidity.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Everything I've said is well substantiated by logic and evidence.
Your belief system turned out to be garbage. Sorry (not really).
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
How is that "obvious" after we've already established that those who avoided preventative measures died at a much higher rate and that only three deaths were linked to the vaccines (specifically the J&J one)?
Your viewpoint has been exposed as dangerous, irresponsible trash.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Your so-called "experts" and "common sense" caused a lot of avoidable deaths. Have you no shame or decency?
And that's the problem, really: you don't struggle with it. You're fine with spreading lies that will kill people - and have already killed lots and lots of people.
Whether you're doing this because you lack proper understanding of what you're doing, or because you know full well what you're doing but don't care about the people you could kill... that's something for you to decide.
This is why, lately, I often end up asking the anti-vaxxer I'm talking to if I should respond as if they're being sincere. Either way, they may get offended by what I say next, but I don't want to insult the intelligence of the person who knows that they're spreading a lie or accuse someone of lying if they really did get duped.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
So they guy who squealed "Occam's razor" is now performing convoluted gymnastics to salvage his ideology from the latrine?
Stating facts is not "convoluted gymnastics". My post isn't in defense of any ideology. But it appears yours was.
Such as?
Did you know that most COVID-19 deaths are now among those that have been vaccinated?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ted-people-now-make-up-majority-covid-deaths/
Of course, as the article states, being vaccinated has benefits and is generally recommended. But terms like "anti-vaxers" and "COVID denialists"[sic] don't help.
Sure: some excess deaths during the pandemic aren't because the person who died was infected with COVID themselves, but because the person couldn't get a normal level of care when the healthcare system was overwhelmed by other patients with infections (and by a loss of capacity due to staff being off sick with COVID).
However, these sorts of indirect deaths should have gone down evenly across the board as vaccinations started and healthcare system capacity improved. But this study found that this wasn't the case: as vaccination levels overall increased, the discrepancy between Republican deaths and Democrat deaths grew wider, even when controlling for other variables (e.g. age).
And most road crash fatalities are among those who wear seatbelts.
You claim to be a math teacher, don't you?
What "helps" depends entirely on what one's ends are.
Calling out murderous fools and liars for what they are certainly won't help to ingratiate myself to these people, but I'm fine with not being friends with those who, through their actions, have demonstrated an extreme lack of disregard for my loved ones and me.
Wow, now you are accusing nameless people of being murderers. So I assume you don't want discussion with these others at all, just berating them. Talk about "How to Win Friends and Influence People"!
It does not follow that they would go down evenly across groups. Also it could be argued that the study "cherry picked" the samples from states that suited a bias.
This study ignores other factors and confuses association with causality. It is well established that age and COVID-19 mortality are correlated. It is also true that older people tend to be Republican and younger people tend to be Democrats.
Party Identification Varies Widely Across the Age Spectrum
This study is flawed.
Not just berating them, but it's on the list.
I have too much self-respect to try to win "friends" who show wanton disregard for my well-being.