stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I don't struggle with it at allI don't understand why some of you struggle with the notion that irresponsible behavior is often harmful
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I don't struggle with it at allI don't understand why some of you struggle with the notion that irresponsible behavior is often harmful
Good line for propagandaAs for disinformation and propaganda, the biggest propagators were the dopey and dimwitted anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists, and science deniers.
I find it hard to choose an approach when responding to anti-vaxers and COVID denialists.I did not say this
Experts said so
My common sense says so too
Yes you do. You're in denial over the fact that people died due to their own stupidity.I don't struggle wit it at all
Everything I've said is well substantiated by logic and evidence.Good line for propaganda
How is that "obvious" after we've already established that those who avoided preventative measures died at a much higher rate and that only three deaths were linked to the vaccines (specifically the J&J one)?I have taken an objective look at the evidence. And it's obvious that getting vaccinated is more risky for many than the alternative.
Your so-called "experts" and "common sense" caused a lot of avoidable deaths. Have you no shame or decency?Experts said so
My common sense says so too
And that's the problem, really: you don't struggle with it. You're fine with spreading lies that will kill people - and have already killed lots and lots of people.I don't struggle wit it at all
So they guy who squealed "Occam's razor" is now performing convoluted gymnastics to salvage his ideology from the latrine?OP is misinterpreting the study result. Excessive deaths do not equate with COVID-19 deaths. During the pandemic period there were multiple causes for excess deaths besides COVID-19.
Stating facts is not "convoluted gymnastics". My post isn't in defense of any ideology. But it appears yours was.So they guy who squealed "Occam's razor" is now performing convoluted gymnastics to salvage his ideology from the latrine?
Such as?OP is misinterpreting the study result. Excessive deaths do not equate with COVID-19 deaths. During the pandemic period there were multiple causes for excess deaths besides COVID-19.
Did you know that most COVID-19 deaths are now among those that have been vaccinated?I find it hard to choose an approach when responding to anti-vaxers and COVID denialists.
On the one hand, they're the perpetrators: people who inflicted huge amounts of death and suffering on humanity.
On the other hand, they also come across as victims: talking to them make it clear that - generally, at least - they just aren't approaching the issue rationally, as if they simply aren't mentally equipped to deal with the concepts involved.
For some of them, it seems like their science denialism and conspiracy theory thinking is rooted in real harm and injustice they've experienced at the hands of the establishment. They may have gone right off the deep end to irrational conclusions, but that initial push was often something that wasn't their fault at all.
So how should we respond? What they're doing kills people, so it certainly isn't good enough, but is there any point in asking them to do better when it seems like they're incapable of it?
Where should we switch from pity to blame, or vice versa?
Sure: some excess deaths during the pandemic aren't because the person who died was infected with COVID themselves, but because the person couldn't get a normal level of care when the healthcare system was overwhelmed by other patients with infections (and by a loss of capacity due to staff being off sick with COVID).
And most road crash fatalities are among those who wear seatbelts.Did you know that most COVID-19 deaths are now among those that have been vaccinated?
What "helps" depends entirely on what one's ends are.Of course, as the article states, being vaccinated has benefits and is generally recommended. But terms like "anti-vaxers" and "COVID denialists"[sic] don't help.
Wow, now you are accusing nameless people of being murderers. So I assume you don't want discussion with these others at all, just berating them. Talk about "How to Win Friends and Influence People"!What "helps" depends entirely on what one's ends are.
Calling out murderous fools and liars for what they are certainly won't help to ingratiate myself to these people, but I'm fine with not being friends with those who, through their actions, have demonstrated an extreme lack of disregard for my loved ones and me.
It does not follow that they would go down evenly across groups. Also it could be argued that the study "cherry picked" the samples from states that suited a bias.However, these sorts of indirect deaths should have gone down evenly across the board as vaccinations started and healthcare system capacity improved. But this study found that this wasn't the case: as vaccination levels overall increased, the discrepancy between Republican deaths and Democrat deaths grew wider, even when controlling for other variables (e.g. age).
Not just berating them, but it's on the list.Wow, now you are accusing nameless people of being murderers. So I assume you don't want discussion with these others at all, just berating them.
I have too much self-respect to try to win "friends" who show wanton disregard for my well-being.Talk about "How to Win Friends and Influence People"!