Contradicting "messengers"

[loverofhumanity]

Obviously one of them is wrong. The problem is none of the messengers from God are perfect. Muhammad (pbuh) depended on the information whispered to him by an Angel (at least that is the claim). The Angel may not have told him anything about reincarnation or may have made some reference that Muhammad misunderstood. Similarly, Krishna may have depended on traditional Hindu beliefs regarding reincarnation.

We will know the truth when the next Avatar/Messenger comes and we can ask him in person.

We believe that to be Baha’u’llah and He explains that it is a misconception and misinterpretation. That rebirth and return signify spiritual rebirth.

 

[Brian2]

Man knew there is no reality demon spirit.

As man could attack remove nothing's law coldest history himself then do a conversion. Space owned why materialism existed.

Cooling God went one way only in law O spin G to O core heat DD cooling GD soon he says equated O.

You had to say. G spin cannot exist by itself. O mass the body in law did before G the spin.

Now as men lost their intelligent self in conscious awareness the Hebrew version said GD. My teaching causes no argument.

As GOOD gave men of science in theisms the wrong impression.

As if O was separate by another O. The body one.

Realisations always updates men's life as we are continually evolving regaining aware spirituality.

As many years ago if I said you did women an injustice I would be very badly interacted with.

Therefore if you conjured AI it's not reality as never had it manifested naturally. With GOD or GD.

Men produce non natural substances by controlling by machines pressures substances.

Not spaces law natural history.

Why learned humans never researched evil nor believed in it as we abided natural laws.

As the sun removed Gods origin form to dusts it's not spaces law origin. What infinity allowed by expansive cold space pressures to exist first.

Why mother in science infinite nothing womb was holiest and never deny that fact.

Was the exact scientists teaching. Don't believe in the sun in law the most un holiest terms as the known destroyer of biology.

Science today say I experiement to be proven right by machine. Machines already proved you wrong.as you are biological dominion. So men say I'm never wrong.

Machine in science knowingly overheats. He had to contrive how to keep it cooled fully aware machines blew up.

As cold space metal law is exact a God body.

What men lying means. Man never owned laws.

Demon spirits told men "We are not demons, trust us".

 

[loverofhumanity]

@ Baha'i faith
Your messengers contradict each other. I've yet to see an satisfactory answer to this problem.

The "messengers" are supposedly emanations of God. But they disagree with each other.

Let's start off simply.

Krishna teaches reincarnation. Muhammad does not.

How do you explain this?

Contradicting messages means that some messengers have to be wrong. And well if they're wrong, then they can't really be emanations of God, can they?

I joined this site a religious syncretist, but as I investigated the varying faiths further, I realized it required helluva mental gymnastics to synthesize them.

Let's see you do the splits

These seeming contradictions between the Messengers actually comes down to conflicting interpretations of the followers.

 

[Trailblazer]

Demon spirits told men "We are not demons, trust us".

Baha'is do not believe in demons per se but I think there are evil spirits in the spiritual world who try to deceive psychic mediums who try to communicate with good spirits in the spiritual world, from what I have read in the book entitled The Afterlife Revealed by Michael Tymn.

 

[rational experiences]

Demon spirits told men "We are not demons, trust us".

Demon spirits never told men anything.

Men theoried god types.

Men thinking talking destroyed God types.

Men were life changed in heavenly AI status. Machines his caused. Why he uses machines AI today. Image transmitted exact owned body type out proof.

Carbon effect state.

We aren't cloud images the state clouds mass.

Men discussed what is a demon theirselves.

How can mass talk claiming identities first?

Say to a man a Theist. Why did you discuss the terms giving it dominion titles by men? A demon.

His truth to warn men he conjured causes. He says man's truth I demon strata I did it myself.

Trust is life on earth is natural.

Space owned all laws naturally by interactive causes constant change.

Man named it chaos claiming it unknowable.

Man said to man don't trust scientist theists.

IST.
They LIST first then destroy.

So he said O gods body mass was stable by the cross within +. Earth.

Four angles of corner pressures L.

L value. The cross back to back terms +. Four of L. L he said is a wing. The angel of God owned four wings never change its protection.

Change the holy Cross everything gets destroyed.

Rome changed earths mass inner O pressures the holy Cross.

A four day earthquake ensued.

Why the cross men said protected life above. Human animal nature garden living in the heavens. Walking freely on earths base. Rock.

Don't trust the scientist. He theoried studied caused AI by machines including gods body heavens changes as gods.

We aren't gods first.

We are human first.

 

[Brian2]

Baha'is do not believe in demons per se but I think there are evil spirits in the spiritual world who try to deceive psychic mediums who try to communicate with good spirits in the spiritual world, from what I have read in the book entitled The Afterlife Revealed by Michael Tymn.

Those evil spirit would be demons.
Demons can also appear to people as messengers/angels from God or even deceive them into thinking God has visited them.................... and given them messages to teach the world.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Baha'is do not believe in demons per se but I think there are evil spirits in the spiritual world who try to deceive psychic mediums who try to communicate with good spirits in the spiritual world, from what I have read in the book entitled The Afterlife Revealed by Michael Tymn.

Yes, there are evil spirits. I've crossed paths with a couple of them before, but I wasn't particularly frightened of them. Did I show you the picture of the one I captured on film a couple of years ago? I also have a digital picture of one that looks like a grim reaper. I will admit that it is a scary-looking thing. As a sensitive, I am aware of the presence of evil spirits, which helps me determine whether they pose an immediate threat to me or not. In the fifteen years I've been a practicing medium, I've only seen three and spoken directly to one. I had never seen or encountered any evil spirits before I began to use my psychic mediumship to communicate with and interact with spirits. I think I'm doing fairly well distancing what I've learned as a Christian from my psychic mediumship, but it isn't always as easy as I think it should be. I said that because I usually call evil spirits "demonic entities," or I will call a single evil spirit a "demon," and that's how the one I communicated with identified itself. I didn't attempt to expel it from its location, but a couple of people who were with me wanted to call a priest. A voice came through the spirit box and said, "No priest," and at that time, the two people with me freaked out and decided it was time to leave, so we left. I haven't returned to the location since, so I'm not sure what happened to the entity after we left. I wasn't concerned about expelling the entity from its location because I didn't see it as an immediate threat.

My closest friend and mentor, who is also a medium, told me that she's only seen four evil spirits during the entire time she's been a practicing medium, which has been for almost forty years. I've spoken with other mediums who have occasionally felt the presence of evil spirits but have never seen any. According to what I've heard from other mediums (one of whom had studied demonology), evil spirits are rarely seen by mediums or other people who don't have psychic mediumship. While I'm not overly afraid of evil spirits, I try to keep my distance if I sense one nearby. I know where not to tread, especially if I feel threatened. I know how to look out for myself.

 

[rational experiences]

M As s is earth.
M As s is heavens.

One is rock.
One is spirit.

Spirit gas water types are origin space womb Infinity law. Created first.

No spirit except mass.
No image except mass.
No voice except mass.

Mass blocks sound by being coldest history.

Pretty basic evil has nothing to do with it.

Scientists as theists lied.

Men invented machine AI also not evil being's just itself.

Image is cold metal mass.

Transmitters hence owned no image first.

Science at NASA realise that situation already. By remote viewing giving humans mind image by satellite computer studies. Of their choosing.

Problem being no one works with them to say you're wrong.

 

[PearlSeeker]

No, I do not recall seeing it.

One of the best and funniest movies I know.

A guy gets stuck in the same day. Every day when he wakes up it's the same day. It repeats itself until he learns something from it...

 

[Trailblazer]

One of the best and funniest movies I know.

A guy gets stuck in the same day. Every day when he wakes up it's the same day. It repeats itself until he learns something from it...

That would not be funny if it happened in reality. It sounds like a nightmare that you never wake up from.
I cannot believe a good God would subject anyone to that.

 

[rational experiences]

A day is the same day everyday.

On a day the reactive heavens might be different.

Men want to understand the reaction not the day.

As without the day existing first no man even exists.

So he shows himself dying in various causes until he learns he's not in gods heavens. Loving the woman is his meaning.

As it's about coldest time. Americans. And interviews.

If science says the human god within is DNA it's all there.

There isn't another separate body in the advice. When you accept Einstein's review experiments don't teach you. They get the same result. Then science should realise science is just his machine.

And still acting like the A MAD scientist you said you were.

 

[rational experiences]

A day is the same day everyday.

On a day the reactive heavens might be different.

Men want to understand the reaction not the day.

As without the day existing first no man even exists.

So he shows himself dying in various causes until he learns he's not in gods heavens. Loving the woman is his meaning.

As it's about coldest time. Americans. And interviews.

If science says the human god within is DNA it's all there.

There isn't another separate body in the advice. When you accept Einstein's review experiments don't teach you. They get the same result. Then science should realise science is just his machine.

And still acting like the A MAD scientist you said you were.

Or you dont learn science as numbers are the same numbers as numbers.

He claims in science you got them. Meaning irrationally that science caused an abnormal condition.

What he got first was metal transported out of dusts as a seam in earth pressure as the law. Once only. A machine is science exactly told.

As his reaction does not even exist as he uses a machine.

No machine no thesis reaction.

 

[CG Didymus]

These seeming contradictions between the Messengers actually comes down to conflicting interpretations of the followers.

Interpretations of what? They are interpretations of things that are written in the various Scriptures of the different religions. The Scriptures themselves contradict each other. Then on top of that the followers of the different religions had different interpretations of those Scriptures.

It's how Baha'is deal with the contradictions in the Scriptures that is troublesome. If Baha'is say that it is because the manifestation didn't write the Scriptures, but that they were written by his followers, then why call them "Scriptures" or the "word of God"? They are only the words of men that claim that those are the things that the manifestation taught. And who's fault is that? Gods and the manifestations? For not writing their own laws and teachings down and making it clear what is true and what is to be believed?

Even with Muhammad, we have a supposed angel telling Muhammad, who then tells other people, who then write it down. The problem with Baha'u'llah is that he does write his stuff down himself, but can we trust it is coming from God? Is everything he said The Truth? Or is some of it questionable? Just a few things, or even one thing off, and that makes his words unreliable. And some of us have found several things about the things he said questionable. For the believer, all of it has to be believed as the "word of God".

Baha'is can't question any of it. But, those of us that have bought into the whole thing, can. And we can compare it and evaluate it, and we do, and find some of it falls short of the perfection that would be needed to call it as coming from an infallible God. Therefore, it must be coming from a fallible man, who thought he was listening to God. And there's been lots of them.

Why do Baha'is reject all those others but accept their guy as the one that is telling the truth? The reasons you reject those others is the same reason some of us reject your guy, Baha'u'llah. There are flaws. There are mistakes. There are contradictions. And that is enough evidence to question him and not accept everything he says as the Truth.

 

[CG Didymus]

Have you ever seen the movie The Groundhog Day?

I don't know if reincarnation is real or not, but TB does not understand the Hindu concept of reincarnation. In theory, I think it makes a lot of sense. It is the soul that is learning things. It is being put into a different human body at different times and places and gets to experience life from a different perspective. One time the man, one time the woman... One time the conqueror, one time the conquered. One time rich, one time poor... etc.

With this one life and one chance, it doesn't give people an equal opportunity in life and to learn what it would be like to be someone else. Baha'is aren't as bad as born-again Christians, who believe if a person doesn't get it right in their one chance at life and accept Jesus, then they will be sent to hell. At least Baha'is say that the soul continues to progress in other worlds of God.

Oh, and she says that living the same day over and over would not be funny? She needs to watch the movie. Yes, it is hell for Bill Murray. But it was for his own good and got him to change. Just like a soul that reincarnated into different human bodies would learn through experience what it is like to be different people in different situations.

 

[CG Didymus]

We believe that to be Baha’u’llah and He explains that it is a misconception and misinterpretation. That rebirth and return signify spiritual rebirth.

What are those Hindu Scriptures that you believe were misinterpreted?

 

[Jainarayan]

Nobody knows what Krishna taught because there are no scriptures written by Krishna.
What writings we do have came by way of oral tradition and were written hundreds of years after Krishna lived.
Thus nobody knows if Krishna actually taught reincarnation, the way it is commonly believed by Hindus today.

That’s not Hindu canon. Everyone, Hindu or otherwise know exactly what Krishna taught, in real time. Krishna spoke directly to Arjuna at Kurukshetra. Granted no one was physically there to hear the conversation. However, Sanjaya, King Dhritarashtra’s secretary was given divine sight. He narrated the events as he saw them in real time. So Krishna did actually teach it. The writing, as Hindus believe was accomplished by Lord Ganesha as it occurred. This is the thing about Baha’i belief that pisses off Hindus … changing what is Hindu canon and making it what they want it to be.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In theory, I think it makes a lot of sense. It is the soul that is learning things. It is being put into a different human body at different times and places and gets to experience life from a different perspective. One time the man, one time the woman... One time the conqueror, one time the conquered. One time rich, one time poor... etc.

I see this life is but one of many stages, who knows what the soul was prior to being given to us at conception. Did it come from nothingness? Then in this life Jesus said we have the chance of being born again, we were born from a matrix into this world, that becomes a matrix for the next, then it appears this is an ongoing process!

"Concerning the future life, what Bahá’u’lláh says is that the soul will continue to ascend through many worlds. What those worlds are and what their nature is we cannot know. The same way that the child in the matrix cannot know this world so we cannot know what the other world is going to be." (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, October 18, 1932)

"With regard to the soul of man. According to the Bahá’í Teachings the human soul starts with the formation of the human embryo, and continues to develop and pass through endless stages of existence after its separation from the body. Its progress is thus infinite." (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, December 31, 1937)

I like this aspect of why our potential is not disclosed.

"Bahá’u’lláh says that were we to have the proper vision to see the blessings of the other world we would not bear to endure one more hour of existence upon the earth. The reason why we are deprived of that vision is because otherwise no one would care to remain and the whole fabric of society will be destroyed (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, October 22, 1932)

Here is a few shotrt quotes on this subject CG, the progress of our soul.

Lights of Guidance/Life after Death; the Soul - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith

I wish for you all the best.

Regards Tony

 

[Jainarayan]

Like @Trailblazer said, the supposed words of Krishna were written down many years in the Bhagaivad Gita, and indeed this story was written within mythological story called the
MAHABHARATA. There are also other sources with Krishna within it, that present him a different way.

Yeah, um … no.

I’m all for knowing the different ways Krishna is presented, and most importantly, where.

The Bhagavad Gita is part of the Mahābhārata, 18 chapters of it, not a separate work. This is one of the things about Baha’i belief that pisses off Hindus … changing what is Hindu canon. Even if it were transmitted orally and all written down years later one must understand the extreme care taken in orally transmitting scriptures. The Vedas even today can be recited from memory without deviation. There are rules within Sanskrit for the memorization. Children begin to learn it at an early age.

The only reason I respond to the comments of Baha’is is not to change their minds or beliefs but hopefully to let non-Hindus know how wrong the Baha’i view of Hinduism is.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That’s not Hindu canon. Everyone, Hindu or otherwise know exactly what Krishna taught, in real time. Krishna spoke directly to Arjuna at Kurukshetra. Granted no one was physically there to hear the conversation. However, Sanjaya, King Dhritarashtra’s secretary was given divine sight. He narrated the events as he saw them in real time. So Krishna did actually teach it. The writing, as Hindus believe was accomplished by Lord Ganesha as it occurred. This is the thing about Baha’i belief that pisses off Hindus … changing what is Hindu canon and making it what they want it to be.

I see the greatest test we face in life is our own relative understanding of the Divine nature we all possess. It is influenced by our nature and nurture within a mould our chosen frames of references.

I also consider it is our ability to see life through different frames of references as our greatest gift.

The problem we have is sorting out truth from our own perceptions of it.

From what I understand, the soul does traverse many worlds of God, it appears that those worlds are within or around this world, so there is no real separation.

It maybe we have lots we can discuss on such a topic.

The Baha'i Writings do offer that the human soul has one chance in this world and in this world can obtain to all the virtues that enable the progress through all the worlds of God.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

It's how Baha'is deal with the contradictions in the Scriptures that is troublesome. If Baha'is say that it is because the manifestation didn't write the Scriptures, but that they were written by his followers, then why call them "Scriptures" or the "word of God"? They are only the words of men that claim that those are the things that the manifestation taught. And who's fault is that? Gods and the manifestations? For not writing their own laws and teachings down and making it clear what is true and what is to be believed?

Why does it have to be someone's fault? That is just the way things were before the Bab and Baha'u'llah came to earth.
It was not the best situation but it is only history now, some of it ancient history. Why fret over what is in the past?

Baha'is can't question any of it. But, those of us that have bought into the whole thing, can.

Baha'is can question it, and I question some things, but at the end of the day I know that is only my ego, thinking I could 'know more' than a Manifestation of God.

And we can compare it and evaluate it, and we do, and find some of it falls short of the perfection that would be needed to call it as coming from an infallible God. Therefore, it must be coming from a fallible man, who thought he was listening to God. And there's been lots of them.

Only God is perfect, so there is always room forever whenever man is involved, such as in translation and interpretation, even though we have the original scriptures.

Why do Baha'is reject all those others but accept their guy as the one that is telling the truth? The reasons you reject those others is the same reason some of us reject your guy, Baha'u'llah. There are flaws. There are mistakes. There are contradictions. And that is enough evidence to question him and not accept everything he says as the Truth.

In your opinion There are flaws. There are mistakes. There are contradictions.
But that is not a fact, it is only an opinion. We all have those.