Christians reduced God to a logical argument

[Harikrish]

If God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and the universe is 14 billion years old. Why are we still trying to prove logically that God exists. P1, P2, P3 etc when evidence of God's should be so overwhelming that it would be impossible to ignore or refute? Yet all we get from Theists is the same logical arguments

P1. God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.

P2. Objective moral values do exist.

P3. Therefore, God exists.

It appears from the logical argument the evidence for objective morality is higher than the evidence for God and, we can at best only deduce from objective morality the probability of God's existence. That is how the Christians have reduced God to an absurd logical argument by appealing to the atheists to accept morality as being objective.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Imo having a God doesn't mean objective morality, just another subjective perspective on morality. Might doesn't make right and all.

 

[Sunstone]

The modern "requirement" that the existence of deity be capable of being logically (or even empirically) demonstrable dates back 2600 years to the ancient Greek gentleman, Thales. It was he who first came up with the notion that all natural events had natural causes that were capable of being known/discovered by reason -- a notion that later on morphed into the notion that the gods needed to be rationally proved to exist.

 

[Kenny]

It's just beautiful how you present your own argument to then destroy it. With such great intellect and wisdom, is this proof that God doesn't exist?

 

[shmogie]

If God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and the universe is 14 billion years old. Why are we still trying to prove logically that God exists. P1, P2, P3 etc when evidence of God's should be so overwhelming that it would be impossible to ignore or refute? Yet all we get from Theists is the same logical arguments

P1. God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.

P2. Objective moral values do exist.

P3. Therefore, God exists.

It appears from the logical argument the evidence for objective morality is higher than the evidence for God and, we can at best only deduce from objective morality the probability of God's existence. That is how the Christians have reduced God to an absurd logical argument by appealing to the atheists to accept morality as being objective.

This is only one syllogism proving God exists, there are others. Everything cannot make itself from nothing, everything exists, therefore God made everything. There are more

 

[Shadow Link]

Why are we still trying to prove logically that God exists. P1, P2, P3 etc when evidence of God's should be so overwhelming that it would be impossible to ignore or refute?

I think when we're dealing with the levels of consciousness we're also dealing with the degrees for capacity of thought. At some level you just know that it all adds up. The problem then becomes explaining away how it does to another person without the same experience and like with all other advanced subjects we have, there will just be more questions unanswered to the skeptical mind with really no desire to quench their own curiosities.

 

[David T]

If God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and the universe is 14 billion years old. Why are we still trying to prove logically that God exists. P1, P2, P3 etc when evidence of God's should be so overwhelming that it would be impossible to ignore or refute? Yet all we get from Theists is the same logical arguments

P1. God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.

P2. Objective moral values do exist.

P3. Therefore, God exists.

It appears from the logical argument the evidence for objective morality is higher than the evidence for God and, we can at best only deduce from objective morality the probability of God's existence. That is how the Christians have reduced God to an absurd logical argument by appealing to the atheists to accept morality as being objective.

A topic can be both true and completely not understood that's a historical fact. So the post relies on the statement by religion in regards to the topic to be authoritative. Now that is sophomoric and beyond stupid and normal. Very southern Baptist btw


We have a long history of rendering the cosmos dead and then fantasizing about it religiously "yes there is a God" or "scientifically no there is not a God" or academically "I am agnostic".

All are a singular mental disorder called normal.


The mental disorder resides in a singular region of the brain dysfunctionally self labelled "higher functioning" all empirical evidence on this site and in culture points to that being complete nonsense of that region being literally "higher functioning". It should be labelled "the dysfunctional region" from most evidence.

 

[Phantasman]

If God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and the universe is 14 billion years old. Why are we still trying to prove logically that God exists. P1, P2, P3 etc when evidence of God's should be so overwhelming that it would be impossible to ignore or refute? Yet all we get from Theists is the same logical arguments

P1. God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.

P2. Objective moral values do exist.

P3. Therefore, God exists.

It appears from the logical argument the evidence for objective morality is higher than the evidence for God and, we can at best only deduce from objective morality the probability of God's existence. That is how the Christians have reduced God to an absurd logical argument by appealing to the atheists to accept morality as being objective.

A great way to see it. The proof is everywhere, but not seen (as God). All are theorized, even God.

Remember Magic Eye?

You see it or you don't. When you do see it, it becomes easier and easier to see.. The image will appear if you work with it. Others walk away saying "there's nothing there but colored dots".

The mind see's amazing things right before your eyes, that others do not.

 

[Harikrish]

It's just beautiful how you present your own argument to then destroy it. With such great intellect and wisdom, is this proof that God doesn't exist?

Even a good logical argument does not appear to have convinced you. Lol!

 

[Harikrish]

A great way to see it. The proof is everywhere, but not seen (as God). All are theorized, even God.

Remember Magic Eye?

You see it or you don't. When you do see it, it becomes easier and easier to see.. The image will appear if you work with it. Others walk away saying "there's nothing there but colored dots".

The mind see's amazing things right before your eyes, that others do not.

But God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient. It would be impossible to hide these attributes of God. Yet all theists can offer are logical arguments in the absence of overwhelming evidence of God's existence.

 

[Harikrish]

I think when we're dealing with the levels of consciousness we're also dealing with the degrees for capacity of thought. At some level you just know that it all adds up. The problem then becomes explaining away how it does to another person without the same experience and like with all other advanced subjects we have, there will just be more questions unanswered to the skeptical mind with really no desire to quench their own curiosities.

Two thirds of the earth is covered with water. There is no need to logically argue about the presence of water because the evidence is so overwhelming. But God's presence should be even more overwhelming, he supposedly created everything and he is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. Yet his absence is so conspicuous that theists can only offer logical arguments to prove God's existence. Where is the logic in their logical arguments?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A great way to see it. The proof is everywhere, but not seen (as God). All are theorized, even God.

Remember Magic Eye?

You see it or you don't. When you do see it, it becomes easier and easier to see.. The image will appear if you work with it. Others walk away saying "there's nothing there but colored dots".

The mind see's amazing things right before your eyes, that others do not.

One person's magic eye puzzle is another person's pareidolia:

Pareidolia: Seeing Faces in Unusual Places

The mere fact that you see something in the noise doesn't mean that "something" exists anywhere outside your head.

If you want to establish that your god exists, you'll need to try harder than "but *I* see it!"

 

[sayak83]

If God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and the universe is 14 billion years old. Why are we still trying to prove logically that God exists. P1, P2, P3 etc when evidence of God's should be so overwhelming that it would be impossible to ignore or refute? Yet all we get from Theists is the same logical arguments

P1. God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.

P2. Objective moral values do exist.

P3. Therefore, God exists.

It appears from the logical argument the evidence for objective morality is higher than the evidence for God and, we can at best only deduce from objective morality the probability of God's existence. That is how the Christians have reduced God to an absurd logical argument by appealing to the atheists to accept morality as being objective.

I am pretty sure Christians believe in God as they believe Jesus was indeed
resurrected and is with them through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Shad]

If God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and the universe is 14 billion years old. Why are we still trying to prove logically that God exists. P1, P2, P3 etc when evidence of God's should be so overwhelming that it would be impossible to ignore or refute? Yet all we get from Theists is the same logical arguments

P1. God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.

P2. Objective moral values do exist.

P3. Therefore, God exists.

It appears from the logical argument the evidence for objective morality is higher than the evidence for God and, we can at best only deduce from objective morality the probability of God's existence. That is how the Christians have reduced God to an absurd logical argument by appealing to the atheists to accept morality as being objective.

Arguments for God made using logic reinforce existing beliefs but rarely create a new set of beliefs. Said existing beliefs typically are not created by any logical argument but existing circumstance such as family and upbringing for example. Theists use these arguments as the primary text(s) of their religious beliefs are not accepted as evidence of God one way or another. The environmental influence is dismissed as indoctrination. So all they have is logic based arguments. If a person accepts one of those arguments links to a specific text or religion is made after.

P2 can be disputed.

 

[Phantasman]

But God is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient. It would be impossible to hide these attributes of God. Yet all theists can offer are logical arguments in the absence of overwhelming evidence of God's existence.

The mind cannot conceive God through it's limitations. The closest we can come is through the images the mind can conceive. God is too far above our abilities to know him. The Jews knew God. Talked to him. Saw him. Jesus said that that was not true. We can get the image of God through Jesus words and the Holy Spirits teachings. God is even far above them as well.

 

[Phantasman]

One person's magic eye puzzle is another person's pareidolia:

Pareidolia: Seeing Faces in Unusual Places

The mere fact that you see something in the noise doesn't mean that "something" exists anywhere outside your head.

If you want to establish that your god exists, you'll need to try harder than "but *I* see it!"

Parable. The eyes cannot see God nor the ears hear him. The Magic Eye is seen through physical.(eyes). But the spiritual mind is what works to get the image. Animals cannot see it. Even with eyes closed, we use the mind for the image.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Parable. The eyes cannot see God nor the ears hear him. The Magic Eye is seen through physical.(eyes). But the spiritual mind is what works to get the image. Animals cannot see it. Even with eyes closed, we use the mind for the image.

Explain how we can tell the difference between your "spiritual eye" and your imagination.

I can think of a few ways; all of them involve empirical evidence.

 

[Shadow Link]

Where is the logic in their logical arguments?

Their logic is based aginst the ignorant ramblings of the leaders from false religions.

 

[Twilight Hue]

A great way to see it. The proof is everywhere, but not seen (as God). All are theorized, even God.

Remember Magic Eye?

You see it or you don't. When you do see it, it becomes easier and easier to see.. The image will appear if you work with it. Others walk away saying "there's nothing there but colored dots".

The mind see's amazing things right before your eyes, that others do not.

I like stuff like that. It's a reason why I believe God is a mental puppet.

I'm sure if you held it up without mentioning anything in particular and just ask him what do they see? I suspect the answers will be vast and varied.

It proves just how easily it can be to reinforce a preconception and make it come into "existence".

 

[Phantasman]

Explain how we can tell the difference between your "spiritual eye" and your imagination.

I can think of a few ways; all of them involve empirical evidence.

Both are images of the mind (which is where the word IMAGination has the root image).

We each decipher what spirit is producing the image.

1 John:
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Error doesn't know truth exists. Truth reveals error so we know the difference. The same principal in Eden with the Tree of Life.

Gospel of Philip:
Before Christ came, there was no bread in the world, just as Paradise, the place were Adam was, had many trees to nourish the animals but no wheat to sustain man. Man used to feed like the animals, but when Christ came, the perfect man, he brought bread from heaven in order that man might be nourished with the food of man. The rulers thought that it was by their own power and will that they were doing what they did, but the Holy Spirit in secret was accomplishing everything through them as it wished. Truth, which existed since the beginning, is sown everywhere. And many see it being sown, but few are they who see it being reaped.

Even many who say they are Christians, are blind to the truth.

From my perspective, of course.