christians - judging

[Aqualung]

Which is an example of juding? Which is an example of "throwing stones"?

1. "Rape is bad."
2. "You are bad, because you raped someone."

Both? Neither? One or the other?

 

[michel]

Aqualung, you have put this in same faith debates "Christians"; I just want to check that you are happy for all denominations of Christians to post, and not just LDS ?

 

[Aqualung]

Yes, that's why it's "Christians" not "LDS"

 

[Scuba Pete]

So first we have to debate whether you Mormons are actually Christians??? JUST KIDDING!!!

Neither is "judging", that is condemning a person with a judgement. This would be discernment.

 

[Aqualung]

Nobody has anything to say about this? They have a lot to say about me "judging" if I say "smoking around kids is bad" or "chaging religion for no reason is bad" Huh.

 

[dawny0826]

I guess two would be the more judgemental of the two but I don't really consider either to be all that judgemental.

 

[sojourner]

Why are we spending time worrying about when, what and who it's OK to judge? I thought judging was God's job...

 

[Aqualung]

Why are we spending time worrying about when, what and who it's OK to judge? I thought judging was God's job...

It is, but you can't leave "judging" to god if you don't know what "judging" is.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I guess I wasn't clear enough...

To "Judge" is to act like a judge and hand down a sentence.

In other words, killing someone YOU thought was a rapist would be judging them.

Telling the truth, or fruit inspecting was never a part of that verse about "do not judge". The Bible instructs us to use our discernment constantly!

 

[Aqualung]

No, you were perfectly clear, NetDoc. What isn't clear is why all the people who condemn me for judging (when all I'm doing is what I proposed in senario 1 of the OP) haven't come and told me why senario 1 is judgemental.

 

[Quiddity]

I guess I wasn't clear enough...

To "Judge" is to act like a judge and hand down a sentence.

In other words, killing someone YOU thought was a rapist would be judging them.

Telling the truth, or fruit inspecting was never a part of that verse about "do not judge". The Bible instructs us to use our discernment constantly!

I agree with Brotha Pete...

 

[Abram]

No, you were perfectly clear, NetDoc. What isn't clear is why all the people who condemn me for judging (when all I'm doing is what I proposed in senario 1 of the OP) haven't come and told me why senario 1 is judgemental.

"rape is bad"

Sounds more like an opinion then a judgment. If that was the case I have judge the whole world because I think lying is bad, and everyone has. Some think that if you have a different opinion then you’re judging them. What makes them think that is their guilt. They feel they need to defend their point.

To say rape is bad is not judging unless you look down on them for doing it. So should you look down on someone who kills their family, No! A sin is a sin in God's eye. Let the God judge. I can still think killing is bad.

 

[hero]

No, you were perfectly clear, NetDoc. What isn't clear is why all the people who condemn me for judging (when all I'm doing is what I proposed in senario 1 of the OP) haven't come and told me why senario 1 is judgemental.

Jesus said not to judge the person not the action. It is easy to tell whether or not something is right or wrong. Hate the sin love the sinner. I am a sinner. You are a sinner. I can acknowledge that your sins are bad. Yet I do in no way think or infer that you will be condemned for your sins. You may very well be forgiven. How are we expected to get by without judging whether or not something is right or wrong, if we dont we may accomplish a sinful life...(in truth..no accomplishment their) I can say that rapists are wrong without saying all of them are going to hell. It is where christians tend to judge the person rather than the crime. Saying sin is bad is the same thing as saying an offense is bad, which is the very nature of what an offense is. Our offense (concerning any given sin) is disobeying God's command. Therefore our sins are not to be judged by those who can have no power over eternity whether or not we spend it in heaven or hell. Only to Him whom we have committed the offense can we be forgiven for it. (keep in mind, we can offend man, but we are not to fear him who can take away our body, but rather Him who can take away body and soul.) Many times the origins are more complex. Such as life for instance, creationism, big bang, evolution, etc... But to gain perspective of where christians get it in their mind that another is sinning, when indeed they may not be, is when one may be stronger or weaker in faith. One man may have part of his life dedicated to God, and he neglects it, to him he would view it as his own sin. ( sin being defined by James as James 4:18NKJV- To him who knows right and does not do it, to him it is sin.) This comes from having a personal God who know us intimately. We have different relationships with Him, being different people. And because I may have given up marriage to devote myself to God, I can by no right say that to everyone who is married they have sinned. What Jesus wonted us to stay away from is judging the condition of another relationship with God, heart, because that is between only two (only God knows the hearts of men). That person, and God.
By the same measure you use you to will be judged. All have sinned, and because of someones sin that you may have seen, or be knowledgable of, is bad(God judges all sins the same(this does not include the blasphemy of the holy spirit))and for you to condemn another for sin, will then set the measure for you yourself. Be careful to judge actions, by what you know to be sins, instead of the person who acts. Again...hate the sin, love the sinner. If you confront someone about sin, they will naturally be defensive. This is when the conflict comes in. Be humble. Include that you too are a sinner, and speak on common ground, with no appearance of one exalted above another, or one "judging" another. This is where people get the wrong impression. It is common. Jesus washed his disciples feet, should not we do the same for each other. If you look at every aspect of this passage, all that was wrong or sinful, came from pride...so be humble, no sevant is greater than his master.

 

[michel]

I guess I wasn't clear enough...

To "Judge" is to act like a judge and hand down a sentence.

In other words, killing someone YOU thought was a rapist would be judging them.

Telling the truth, or fruit inspecting was never a part of that verse about "do not judge". The Bible instructs us to use our discernment constantly!

Now you've got me confused; isn't saying " I think rape is bad" being Judgemental ?

 

[Aqualung]

Now you've got me confused; isn't saying " I think rape is bad" being Judgemental ?

I don't know. Is it? After all, God gave us a book of rules. Do you think that recognising these rules is bad?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Now you've got me confused; isn't saying " I think rape is bad" being Judgemental ?

No, it's not passing a "sentence". The problem is our english language where "judgement" can mean two distinct things. From www.Dictionary.com

judg·ment also judge·ment https://secure.reference.com/premiu...//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=judgement(j

j

m

nt)
n.

1. The act or process of judging; the formation of an opinion after consideration or deliberation.
2. 1. <LI type=a>The mental ability to perceive and distinguish relationships; discernment: Fatigue may affect a pilot's judgment of distances. <LI type=a>The capacity to form an opinion by distinguishing and evaluating: His judgment of fine music is impeccable.
   2. The capacity to assess situations or circumstances and draw sound conclusions; good sense: She showed good judgment in saving her money. See Synonyms at reason.
3. An opinion or estimate formed after consideration or deliberation, especially a formal or authoritative decision: awaited the judgment of the umpire.
4. Law.
   1. <LI type=a>A determination of a court of law; a judicial decision. <LI type=a>A court act creating or affirming an obligation, such as a debt.
   2. A writ in witness of such an act.
5. An assertion of something believed.
6. A misfortune believed to be sent by God as punishment for sin.
7. Judgment The Last Judgment.

Consider the fourth annotation: this is what is meant in the Greek (no, I can't remember the word off the top of my head). In essence it is the passing of a sentence and merely using discernment.

"Judge not!"= Don't tell someone to go to hell.
"By their fruits you will know them"= God EXPECTS us to use discernment about people and events.

 

[michel]

No, it's not passing a "sentence". The problem is our english language where "judgement" can mean two distinct things. From www.Dictionary.com

judg·ment also judge·ment (j

j

m

nt)
n.

1. The act or process of judging; the formation of an opinion after consideration or deliberation.
   1. <LI type=a>The mental ability to perceive and distinguish relationships; discernment: Fatigue may affect a pilot's judgment of distances. <LI type=a>The capacity to form an opinion by distinguishing and evaluating: His judgment of fine music is impeccable.
   2. The capacity to assess situations or circumstances and draw sound conclusions; good sense: She showed good judgment in saving her money. See Synonyms at reason.
2. An opinion or estimate formed after consideration or deliberation, especially a formal or authoritative decision: awaited the judgment of the umpire.
3. Law.
   
   1. <LI type=a>A determination of a court of law; a judicial decision. <LI type=a>A court act creating or affirming an obligation, such as a debt.
   2. A writ in witness of such an act.
4. An assertion of something believed.
5. A misfortune believed to be sent by God as punishment for sin.
6. Judgment The Last Judgment.

Consider the fourth annotation: this is what is meant in the Greek (no, I can't remember the word off the top of my head). In essence it is the passing of a sentence and merely using discernment.


"Judge not!"= Don't tell someone to go to hell.
"By their fruits you will know them"= God EXPECTS us to use discernment about people and events.

OK I have understood; but surely, you are saying the Biblical 'Judging' means something different from our colloquial use of the word.

 

[afdragon2006]

Rap is bad is not judging because it has allready been judged by god in the bible.

 

[Aqualung]

Rap is bad is not judging because it has allready been judged by god in the bible.

Good way of putting it! Nice and simple. But I suppose you mean rape, not rap?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Yes, a "judgement" involves punishment of some kind.