Christians - did joseph smith preach a contradictory gospel

[Bishka]

In all fairness, this thread was started to invite questions as to whether Mormons preach a contradictory gospel--we ought to be prepared for affirmative answers, and with a little more than "don't go there."

True, but how many times have we gone there again and again and again only to have people ignore what we present.

It's gets old and tiresome afterawhile, I wish I was as patient as you.

 

[Katzpur]

In all fairness, this thread was started to invite questions as to whether Mormons preach a contradictory gospel--we ought to be prepared for affirmative answers, and with a little more than "don't go there."

Well, DeepShadow, you are an uncommonly patient guy. I'd go so far as to say you were a true Christian, but we both know you're a Mormon. I'm sorry, but I simply don't have the patience to deal with people who refer to my doctrines as "bull," and then has the audacity to claim they're telling me this out of love. Now if Baerly had simply said something like, "I've heard that Mormons teach such and such..." that would be one thing. I would have probably just corrected him if he was wrong, or said, "Yes, that's right," if he was right. There is no need for anyone on RF to post a link to a website that intentionally maligns another person's beliefs. And when people do that, I'm not going to respond with niceties. That said, I'm glad we've got you. You're a good example to all of us. We just don't all have your incredible composure, and I mean that sincerely.

 

[Snowbear]

In all fairness, this thread was started to invite questions as to whether Mormons preach a contradictory gospel--we ought to be prepared for affirmative answers, and with a little more than "don't go there."

Frubals for that, DS... I was actually looking forward to the posts countering what baerly and the 'anti-mormon' websites are stating... how else are those of us who don't ignore the answers going to know what you believe and what is bull pucky if those of you who practice the religion don't tell us?

 

[DeepShadow]

Thanks for the frubals, Snowbear! Yeah, I know it gets tiring for us LDSers to beat a dead horse--I've refuted the Seer at least four times on RF alone--and sometimes we assume that there are enough refutations out there that we can just relax a little. My sympathies to Katzpur and Becky for saying "It's crap" and leaving it at that...but it is the topic of this thread, to go through that crap and ask what's not supported Biblically.

If you can stomach the website, Snowbear, I'm prepared to answer specific questions from it. Barring that, I'll answer whatever else you've got, no matter how many times you have to ask me to rephrase it so you can understand.

 

[Katzpur]

Frubals for that, DS... I was actually looking forward to the posts countering what baerly and the 'anti-mormon' websites are stating... how else are those of us who don't ignore the answers going to know what you believe and what is bull pucky if those of you who practice the religion don't tell us?

DeepShadow is awesome. I'm glad he's here. I understand what you're getting at and you do have a good point. On the other hand, I wish that people would simply bring up specific points of doctrine they take issue with and present them for debate instead of just posting a link to an antagonistic website and describing someone else's doctrines as "bull." If Baerly had done that, it would have been far easier for me to respond graciously.

 

[Snowbear]

If you can stomach the website, Snowbear, I'm prepared to answer specific questions from it. Barring that, I'll answer whatever else you've got, no matter how many times you have to ask me to rephrase it so you can understand.

Actually, while I didn't read the anti-mormon spew on that website, I found what I did read quite bigotted and inflammatory. As I've done before on this forum, I'll certainly ask questions as I think of them though

 

[DeepShadow]

Becky and Katzpur--I meant what I said about understanding your feelings. The website made me sick to scroll through, but I guess somehow I've been blessed with a strong stomach for that kind of stuff. I agree that if Baerly had set a better tone, it would have been easier to respond, but sometimes you have to swing at the pitch anyway. If either of you want me to pitch hit for you, let me know.

Snowbear--this whole issue of getting tired of refuting or answering can go both ways! I wasn't here for some of your earlier questions, but if any of them are not answered to your satisfaction, please ask again and PM me so I don't miss it!

 

[Katzpur]

Becky and Katzpur--I meant what I said about understanding your feelings. The website made me sick to scroll through, but I guess somehow I've been blessed with a strong stomach for that kind of stuff. I agree that if Baerly had set a better tone, it would have been easier to respond, but sometimes you have to swing at the pitch anyway. If either of you want me to pitch hit for you, let me know.

Yeah, and that might be easier if you showed your cute little puppy dog face more than once every couple of weeks.

 

[DeepShadow]

Yeah, that darn real life thing again. I've got the worse case I've had in a long time. Seriously I get email notification from PM's. If someone sets your teeth on edge again, let me know. I mean it.

 

[Bishka]

Frubals for that, DS... I was actually looking forward to the posts countering what baerly and the 'anti-mormon' websites are stating... how else are those of us who don't ignore the answers going to know what you believe and what is bull pucky if those of you who practice the religion don't tell us?

To put it bluntly - because I don't feel like being nice.

Instead of saying here's pages and pages of crap - refute why doncha, ask specific quesitons. When we are given pages and pages or thing like that, it gets old, ok?

 

[Snowbear]

Frubals for that, DS... I was actually looking forward to the posts countering what baerly and the 'anti-mormon' websites are stating... how else are those of us who don't ignore the answers going to know what you believe and what is bull pucky if those of you who practice the religion don't tell us?

To put it bluntly - because I don't feel like being nice.

Really?? You??

Instead of saying here's pages and pages of crap - refute why doncha, ask specific quesitons.

I don't think I ever have said, "here's pages and pages of crap." I've also never referenced an anti-mormon site to bash your religion.
All I've done to refute is based on my own (not someone else's) biblical interpretations.
The only questions I've ever asked about your religion have been quite specific.

 

[nutshell]

Really?? You??
I don't think I ever have said, "here's pages and pages of crap." I've also never referenced an anti-mormon site to bash your religion.
All I've done to refute is based on my own (not someone else's) biblical interpretations.
The only questions I've ever asked about your religion have been quite specific.

Snowbear, I don't think Becky was referring to you when she wrote that.

 

[Snowbear]

Snowbear--this whole issue of getting tired of refuting or answering can go both ways!

huh? I'm not sure what you mean by this?
\

I wasn't here for some of your earlier questions, but if any of them are not answered to your satisfaction, please ask again and PM me so I don't miss it!

Thank you, Shadow.... there were a couple.... I'll have to go find them. Or perhaps just start new threads with the parts that didn't get answered

 

[Snowbear]

Snowbear, I don't think Becky was referring to you when she wrote that.

OK. The 'you' (i.e. 'why doncha')in the response after quoting my post threw me off I guess.

 

[Bishka]

Really?? You??

Evidently you don't see what the rest of us are seeing.

I don't think I ever have said, "here's pages and pages of crap."

It's the same concept. People give the same 'questions' or remarks over and over and say the same things when we have clarified it multiple times

All I've done to refute is based on my own (not someone else's) biblical interpretations.

Why do you feel the need to refute our faith? You don't practice it, so I don't see the problem. I don't take my Book of Mormon and try to refute you, now do I?

The only questions I've ever asked about your religion have been quite specific.

:areyoucra

 

[Bishka]

OK. The 'you' (i.e. 'why doncha')in the response after quoting my post threw me off I guess.

Take it so personallly why don't you.

 

[Bishka]

Or perhaps just start new threads with the parts that didn't get answered

Or perhaps even better, when you have a concern or question address that specific one in one specific thread so it can be throughly addressed instead of going all over the place.

It's much easier to find answers that way.:yes:

 

[Snowbear]

It's the same concept. People give the same 'questions' or remarks over and over and say the same things when we have clarified it multiple times

First you say to ask specific questions. Then you say that asking is the same as spouting pages and pages of crap. So am I understanding that you don't want people to question your beliefs at all?
Huh. I thought that's what RF was for.:sarcastic

Why do you feel the need to refute our faith? You don't practice it, so I don't see the problem. I don't take my Book of Mormon and try to refute you, now do I?

For the record, I don't refute your faith. I refute and question your doctrines. Just as you do with non-mormon doctrines.
First you say to refute specifics. Then you question why I do.
Anyhow, am I understanding that people who do not agree with or question points of your doctrine should just keep quiet about it and not give their own points of view or opinions or interpretations?
And here I thought RF was for discussing and debating the various religions. :sarcastic

I don't take my Book of Mormon and try to refute you, now do I?

Oh, you refute. But no, I don't recall you using specifics from the BoM to do it.

Or perhaps even better, when you have a concern or question address that specific one in one specific thread so it can be throughly addressed instead of going all over the place.

And again, now it seems you're giving me permission to ask questions, but only as long as they're in a specific thread? Is that so you can say you're tired of folks spouting pages and pages of crap all in one place instead of all over the place? :sarcastic

 

[Bishka]

First you say to ask specific questions. Then you say that asking is the same as spouting pages and pages of crap. So am I understanding that you don't want people to question your beliefs at all?

I never said that, not once. If you'd like an interpretation of what I meant, ask -- don't assume

Huh. I thought that's what RF was for.

Never said it wasn't.

For the record, I don't refute your faith. I refute and question your doctrines. Just as you do with non-mormon doctrines.

Actually, you do. I don't with 'non-mormon' doctrines. I compare and contrast and bring God's teachings from every faith in my life.

First you say to refute specifics. Then you question why I do.

Excuse me?

Anyhow, am I understanding that people who do not agree with or question points of your doctrine should just keep quiet about it and not give their own points of view or opinions or interpretations?

You said it, not me.:areyoucra

Not in the leastest. I wholly welcome respectful questions. Go ahead and question, but do not try say I am wrong by your interpretation. I am right by mine and you are right by yours.

And here I thought RF was for discussing and debating the various religions. :sarcastic

I never said it wasn't. I would like respectful discussion on my faith instead of people saying I'm not Christian, I don't believe in the same Jesus and according the Bible 'this-and-this'. How about according to the Book of Mormon?

Oh, you refute. But no, I don't recall you using specifics from the BoM to do it.

Most people here don't really count the Book of Mormon as 'scripture', and in the past experiences I have had, I've been asked numerless times to quote it out of 'real scripture' (i.e. the Bible).

And again, now it seems you're giving me permission to ask questions, but only as long as they're in a specific thread?

I'm not giving your permission to do anything, I'm suggesting something, there is a difference, learn it.

Is that so you can say you're tired of folks spouting pages and pages of crap all in one place instead of all over the place? :sarcastic

Are you really that ignorant, or just choosing to be tonight? See above answers and you should be able to figure this one out yourself.

 

[Bishka]

Snowbear -

If you are going to continue to try to ask why I keep saying things, go ahead, it'll just prove my point. If you really wanted to learn and dicuss and have questions answered, you would be asking questions by now.

Not attacking personal statements made by any of us.