Christians - did joseph smith preach a contradictory gospel

[Aqualung]

I want to know if you think that the gospel taht Joseph smith taught contradicts what is taught in the bible, and where and how it contradicts.

 

[joeboonda]

I believe there are subtle differences. I will only say, the good news I believe is that salvation is a free gift, from trusting alone in Christ alone. There is one baptism. (Eph. 5:4) We are all baptized into the body of Christ by one spirit I Cor. 12:13) We are saved the moment we first believe, for "Today is the day of salvation, and He that believeth on me HATH eternal life. For salvation this is all we need. The addition of works we do: water baptism, laying on of hands to 'receive the Holy Spirit', and the temple ceremonies of the LDS church, is what makes his gospel different, for me. I believe salvation is totaly free, we are saved the moment we believe, and that the works (water baptism, growing in grace, serving, etc.) follow as a result of that so great salvation freely given to whoever asks. I probably won't argue my point, I think we all feel we have hit a brick wall here, but that is where the main difference lies for me.

4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousnesss. (Romans)
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(King James Bible, Ephesians)

 

[Katzpur]

I believe there are subtle differences. I will only say, the good news I believe is that salvation is a free gift, from trusting alone in Christ alone. There is one baptism. (Eph. 5:4) We are all baptized into the body of Christ by one spirit I Cor. 12:13) We are saved the moment we first believe, for "Today is the day of salvation, and He that believeth on me HATH eternal life. For salvation this is all we need. The addition of works we do: water baptism, laying on of hands to 'receive the Holy Spirit', and the temple ceremonies of the LDS church, is what makes his gospel different, for me. I believe salvation is totaly free, we are saved the moment we believe, and that the works (water baptism, growing in grace, serving, etc.) follow as a result of that so great salvation freely given to whoever asks. I probably won't argue my point, I think we all feel we have hit a brick wall here, but that is where the main difference lies for me.

Well, I guess then, that we're not the only Christians who've got it wrong. Over 1 billion Roman and Orthodox Catholics also believe that salvation is by grace through both faith and works.

 

[TheGreaterGame]

Well, I guess then, that we're not the only Christians who've got it wrong. Over 1 billion Roman and Orthodox Catholics also believe that salvation is by grace through both faith and works.

Right.

 

[joeboonda]

Here is a link that has a Bible study of why I believe salvation is a free gift through trusting alone, in Christ alone. If anyone is interested.

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/clear_salv_psgs.htm

 

[FFH]

Here is a link that has a Bible study of why I believe salvation is a free gift through trusting alone, in Christ alone. If anyone is interested.

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/clear_salv_psgs.htm

I enjoyed this link.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Well, I guess then, that we're not the only Christians who've got it wrong. Over 1 billion Roman and Orthodox Catholics also believe that salvation is by grace through both faith and works.

Very True.

The simplest measure of complete faith is though our "works" in God.
They are linked in the most basic way...Love.

Terry_________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[James the Persian]

Well, I guess then, that we're not the only Christians who've got it wrong. Over 1 billion Roman and Orthodox Catholics also believe that salvation is by grace through both faith and works.

And don't forget the Oriental Orthodox and high church Anglicans. The overwhelming majority of Christians, both presently and historically, do not subscribe to sola fide.

James

 

[pdoel]

I'll admit I'm not real familiar with his teachings. I have a read a few snipits on these boards, and I have to admit, I don't agree with what I've read so far.

I'd also love to learn more about the deal with these sacred underpants.

 

[Aqualung]

pdoel - you don't know a lot about our beliefs, yet you dismiss them rather easily. What you read on the boards is not a good representation, because it usually does not describe why we believe it.

 

[pdoel]

pdoel - you don't know a lot about our beliefs, yet you dismiss them rather easily. What you read on the boards is not a good representation, because it usually does not describe why we believe it.

That goes both ways. You have dismissed many people's beliefs whether you know anything about them or not. Which I find a bit ironic, since you have stated you will only change beliefs if told to you by a prophet.

As I've stated many times, I have gathered my beliefs through my personal relationship with God. My faith is what drives me. Not what somebody else tells me.

I stated in my first post on this thread that I don't know a lot of what Joseph Smith has taught. But from the few comments I've read from you (i.e. there being multiple Gods), I'm sorry, that goes against my beliefs and anything I've ever read in the Bible.

Sorry.

 

[Aqualung]

That goes both ways. You have dismissed many people's beliefs whether you know anything about them or not. Which I find a bit ironic, since you have stated you will only change beliefs if told to you by a prophet.

Why is htat ironic? That's very consistent.

I stated in my first post on this thread that I don't know a lot of what Joseph Smith has taught. But from the few comments I've read from you (i.e. there being multiple Gods), I'm sorry, that goes against my beliefs and anything I've ever read in the Bible.

Sorry.

Well, since the multiple gods thing isn't part of the gospel that the LDS teach, that's moot. Next question?

 

[pdoel]

Why is htat ironic? That's very consistent.

It's ironic because you dismiss people's ideas, but then say the only time you change your ideas on religion is when someone else tells you to.

Well, since the multiple gods thing isn't part of the gospel that the LDS teach, that's moot. Next question?

Now I'm confused. In one of your other threads it was specifically stated the Joseph Smith taught there are many Gods, and that God (our God) simply tells us he is "our" only God.

 

[Aqualung]

It's ironic because you dismiss people's ideas, but then say the only time you change your ideas on religion is when someone else tells you to.

Even with the contorted way you said that, it's still very consistent.

Now I'm confused. In one of your other threads it was specifically stated the Joseph Smith taught there are many Gods, and that God (our God) simply tells us he is "our" only God.

:areyoucra I actually said the opposite. I said that people have speculated about it, but the Joseph Smith or any other prophet have never taught it.

 

[pdoel]

:areyoucra I actually said the opposite. I said that people have speculated about it, but the Joseph Smith or any other prophet have never taught it.

Actually, I'd go a step further. In that other thread, you have ARGUED there are multiple Gods. So if this wasn't taught to you by a prophet such as Joseph Smith, how can you determine that there are multiple Gods?

 

[jonny]

Actually, I'd go a step further. In that other thread, you have ARGUED there are multiple Gods. So if this wasn't taught to you by a prophet such as Joseph Smith, how can you determine that there are multiple Gods?

I always find it hilarious that people who admittedly know very little about LDS doctrine are so critical of the non-doctrinal speculation. This God issue has been debated hundreds of times on these forums. :biglaugh:

If you want to find out what Joseph Smith taught you can visit the website the Church developed for his 200th birthday this year: www.josephsmith.net

There are more documents than you'd even need on him on this page:
http://www.josephsmith.net/portal/site/JosephSmith/menuitem.1a54a875026bb88d73455672f1e543a0/?vgnextoid=c95679179acbff00VgnVCM1000001f5e340aRCRD

 

[jonny]

I'd also love to learn more about the deal with these sacred underpants.

Why are people so interested in my underwear?

It's an outward expression of an inward commitment I've made to follow the Savior. That should pretty much sum it up.

 

[Katzpur]

I'll admit I'm not real familiar with his teachings. I have a read a few snipits on these boards, and I have to admit, I don't agree with what I've read so far.

Well, I'll tell you what... You ask any question you want on the LDS forum, and we'll be happy to answer. If you decide to take me up on this, keep in mind three things: (1)What you know so far represents probably about 1% of all there is to know, (2) Not everything every LDS leader has ever said is official LDS doctrine, (2) There is A LOT of misinformation out there about us.

I'd also love to learn more about the deal with these sacred underpants.

I'll make you a deal. I won't ask you about your underwear if you don't ask me about mine. It's not a subject I feel particularly comfortable talking to a total stranger about. Are you in the habit of asking people to discuss their underwear with you? Offhand, I can't remember having ever done something of that sort myself.

 

[jonny]

For those who want a quick summary of Joseph Smith's teachings in order to begin debating, you might want to start with our Articles of Faith:

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

[Katzpur]

People of many religions wear sacred clothing. Some Muslims do. So do some Jews, Native Americans, Hindus, and others. For most of these people, these pieces of clothing are physical reminders of God and his bond with man. They hold these things sacred. Some of them are beads, head coverings, aprons, prayer shawls or medicine bags. They should, in all cases, be respected.

Mormons have sacred clothing, too. In our case, it's an undergarment worn against the skin. As I already said, we aren't in the habit of discussing our underwear with non-believers. That ought to be understandable. Like virtually all religious clothing, it is a specific reminder of covenants we have made in our Temples to God.