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Christians - did joseph smith preach a contradictory gospel

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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Baerly said:
They teach that all men will be judged out of the Bible. This is a faithful saying, not because the Book of Mormon says it but because the Bible teaches it. Here is their error. They also teach that men will be judged out of Mormon writings (2 Ne. 29:11).
Men will be judged according to what is true, regardless of the source from whence that truth comes.

The revelation of the Mormon Church teaches that you can see without knowing anything about Mormonism or the Bible.
Huh? :confused:

The Book of Mormon teaches that God would reveal His message unto others (2 Ne. 29:11-12). The last sentence in 2 Nephi 29:12 is a terrible sentence. It says too much. According to the Book of Mormon, the Lord said, "I shall speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it."Smith wanted to leave the impression that the Book of Mormon should be added to the Bible as inspired of God. However, what he said was far more than that. His sentence structure says 1) that God shall "speak" to all nations and 2) that "they" [all nations] shall write. Thus, according to Deceiver Smith, we will have inspired writings from "all nations," not just from one, or a dozen, or a hundred nations, but from each and every one of them.
As a matter of fact, when Jesus Christ spoke to his followers in the Holy Land, He is recorded in the Gospel of John as having said, “Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” He also said that His own personal mission was only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. So who were the “other sheep” of whom He spoke, people who were evidently not living in the Holy Land but who were, at the same time, of the house of Israel? We believe they were the people whose story is told in the Book of Mormon. After Christ’s resurrection, he stayed among his Apostles and others for a time. But, according to the Book of Mormon, before He returned to heaven where He now awaits the time of His Second Coming, He visited the people of ancient America. He established His Church here, teaching exactly the same gospel He had taught in the Holy Land.

The Bible teaches that revelation from God ceased in the first century. In 1 Corinthians 12-14, Paul teaches that love will not perish but the partial (miraculous capabilities) would be superseded by the impartial (completed will) (1Cor 13:8). This same truth is taught in Ephesians chapter 4. Paul again predicts the termination of spiritual gifts. Since the cessation of the supernatural was anticipated after the death of the apostles, we would expect that second century folks would no longer be exercising supernatural power. Historically, after the first century, the report concerning miraculous events from second and third century "Christians" were few. Those that are mentioned are questionable.
You are absolutely right! The spiritual gifts did cease to exist shortly following the deaths of the Apostles. The Church Christ established had fallen into apostasy. Of course, spiritual gifts would have ceased to exist. Thanks for strengthening the LDS position. :D

Therefore, the Book of Mormon cannot be from God. It and the other so-called inspired writings from the Mormon Church are bogus. Mormon "Scriptures" are not equal to the Bible but to the Koran. Both the Book of Mormon and the Koran were supposedly given by an angel from heaven. Anticipating this deceitfulness, God gave a dire warning that Smith and the Mormon Church have ignored. He said, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema" (Gal. 1:8-9). Students cannot follow the Bible and the Book of Mormon. You must reject one or the other. For over 1,700 years men became Christians without the Book of Mormon. Follow the Bible and it alone and you will be blessed.
Well, I have news for you. Twelve million people worldwide do follow both the Book of Mormon and the Bible. The conclusions you've presented are nothing more than a pathetic attempt to discredit something you obviously know little about. The warning mentioned in Galatians 1:8-9 was in reference to the apostasy that took place in the early days of the Church. A "different gospel" was being preached within little more than a century after Christ died.

in love Baerly
You know, your message of love didn't quite get through. It kind of got lost when you called my scriptures "bogus" and my prophet a "deceiver." Maybe you ought to rethink your signature, Baerly. Something less disingenuous may fit you better.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
beckysoup61 said:
Baerly said:
If people will not accept only the bible what does that make them? - in love Baerly
I'm not sure, but close-minded and ignorant comes to mind.
I seriously doubt this came out the way you intended, Becky.... but thanks for the chuckle :D
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Baerly said:
Hi,all gospel means is good news.The good news that Jesus is coming starts in the O.T. -- The good news that Jesus was born,lived,died,rose from the dead,and he will return again to meet the faithful in the air to take them to heaven forever is found in the New Testament. So when talking about the gospel,one is actually talking about the story of Jesus from start to finish found totally within the bible.
(2 Peter 1:3) says God has given us (All things) pertaining to life and godliness. When one has ALL of something there is no more to be had.
Then (Jude 3) says the faith was ONCE delivered to the saints.Not at two different periods of time. But notice below some contradictions.

THE BIBLE SAYS:

1. The church began in 33A.D.-- (Matt.16:18) (Acts 2)
2. Disciples first called Christians at Antioch 40 A.D. -- (Acts 11:26)
3. Jesus is the only head of the church (Col. 1:18)
4. Jesus born in Bethlehem -- (Matt. 2:1) (Matt. 21:17)
5. Three hours of darkness at crucifixion --(Luke 23:44)
6. God is a spirit --(John 4:24) (Luke 24:39)

BOOK OF MORMONS SAYS:

1. Church began in 147 B.C. -- Mosiah 18:17)
2. (Alma 46:13-16) Supposedly written in 73 B.C. refers to Nephites as Christians
3. Joseph Smith is the head of Mormon Church --(D&C 28:2-6)
4. He shall be born of Mary at JERUSALEM --(Alma 7:10)
5. Three DAYS of darkness at crucifixion --(Hel 14:20-27)
6. God has flesh and bones like man--(D&C 130:22)

www.bible.ca/
We haven't had such a blissfully ignorant anti-Mormon here on RF for quite some time, Baerly. You've filled a long-vacant gap in our ranks and will, I'm sure, provide many hours of amusement for the Latter-day Saints on the forum. Welcome! :D
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Baerly said:

I know this is a same faith debates for Christians, but I just have to say that is the one of the most hateful and inaccurate websites I have ever seen concerning religion... don't even get me started on the garbage it spews about gay people.

Anything quoted from that site should not be considered factual or accurate.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Katzpur said:
We haven't had such a blissfully ignorant anti-Mormon here on RF for quite some time, Baerly. You've filled a long-vacant gap in our ranks and will, I'm sure, provide many hours of amusement for the Latter-day Saints on the forum. Welcome! :D
I am afraid such ignorance is irritating in the extreme. As we have seen in the past, people moulded with such hate as the basis of their religion, poison the atmosphere in which we are trying to learn from each other.

As the inquisitors tortured and burnt their victims, they sung praises for the love of God.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Snowbear said:
I seriously doubt this came out the way you intended, Becky.... but thanks for the chuckle :D

Your probably right -- my brain isn't exactly here, I'm on vacation.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Baerly,

Are you choosing to ignore the truth and facts about the LDS Church here or do you enjoy ignorant bliss?
 
Aqualung said:
I want to know if you think that the gospel taht Joseph smith taught contradicts what is taught in the bible, and where and how it contradicts.


Well Joseph Smith had about 35 wives, but the Bible says "one man for one woman"
And Smith carried a gun and died in a shootout, killing two of them in the process. I doubt whether Jesus carried a gun..
And the Book of Mormon calls black people "accursed", whereas Jesus didn't..
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Mick in England said:
Well Joseph Smith had about 35 wives, but the Bible says "one man for one woman"
And Smith carried a gun and died in a shootout, killing two of them in the process. I doubt whether Jesus carried a gun..
And the Book of Mormon calls black people "accursed", whereas Jesus didn't..

Ask yourself, what is the gospel?

My answer to that questions is...the good news about Jesus Christ.

We're (Mormons and I) on the same page when it comes to the heart of the gospel. Salvation is found in Jesus Christ.
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
Mick in England said:
Well Joseph Smith had about 35 wives, but the Bible says "one man for one woman"

It also says that God gave David his father's wives. God allowed polygamy under some circumstances and prohibited it on others.

And Smith carried a gun and died in a shootout, killing two of them in the process. I doubt whether Jesus carried a gun..

He advised his followers to carry swords to defend themselves. If there had been guns, what do you think he would have said?

And the Book of Mormon calls black people "accursed", whereas Jesus didn't..

It says they were marked on their skin for unbelief, but these marks also included light-skinned unbelievers who painted their foreheads. It also goes on to list a dark-skinned believer as one of the greatest prophets of the book, and says that the (dark-skinned) People of Ammon had greater faith than any of the light-skinned people. These are only three of the dozens of examples that fly in the face of such "black skin bad, white skin good" overgeneralizations.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Mick in England said:
Well Joseph Smith had about 35 wives,
Proof darling? Any records? You may actually confusing Joseph Smith with Brigham Young. Brigham Young sure had his hands full.


Mick in England said:
but the Bible says "one man for one woman"
Where?

Mick in England said:
And Smith carried a gun and died in a shootout,
So he could protect his brother, and the two other men that were in the prison cell with him. It was Smith with a lousy little pistol against about 200 men in a murderous mob. Is that fair?

Mick in England said:
killing two of them in the process.
Evidence?


Mick in England said:
I doubt whether Jesus carried a gun..
Joseph Smith is not Jesus and never will be.

Mick in England said:
And the Book of Mormon calls black people "accursed",
Show me where it says 'black people are accused' in the Book of Mormon, I'd love to see that.

Mick in England said:
whereas Jesus didn't..
Jesus didn't what? Mick, this is the most IGNORANT post I've seen in awhile. You have no clue what you are really talking about.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Mick in England said:
Well Joseph Smith had about 35 wives, but the Bible says "one man for one woman"
Actually, it doesn't. If you're going to actually quote the Bible (as it appears was your intention), you really need to be more careful to get it right. So, let me ask you this: What is your opinion of Abraham? He had quite a few wives himself, and God never once condemned him for it. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single more righteous individual in the Old Testament than Abraham, or one whom God blessed more abundantly for his obedience. Can you?

And Smith carried a gun and died in a shootout, killing two of them in the process.
Right. Joseph, his brother and a friend versus a mob of 200 men bent on killing him. By the way, Joseph was given a gun with which to protect himself, and he fired in self-defense. He was shot nine times before he died and several more times afterwards. And you call this a "shootout"?

I doubt whether Jesus carried a gun.
There were guns in 34 A.D?

And the Book of Mormon calls black people "accursed", whereas Jesus didn't..
The Book of Mormon does no such thing. Next time, get your facts straight before mouthing off.
 

Baerly

Active Member
Katzpur asked:- Who are the other sheep Jesus spoke about in (John 10:16)?

Baerly said: In (Eph.2:11-16) We learn that the other sheep Jesus was talking about was the Gentiles. Both kinds of people were brought together into one church
(or body) (Eph.2:16). He was sent to the Jewish people,but his plan of salvation included the Gentiles also.

I assure you I am genuine. I am speaking the truth in love (Eph.4:15). I am reminded what was wrote in (Gal.1:6-9). We are not to preach another gospel (Gal.1:6-9). Anyone who does is to be accursed. in love Baerly

If you get a chance go to www.bible.ca and look up the Mormon doctrine and see if it is all bull or truth. Just scroll down to the bottom of the home page.
 

PetShopBoy88

Active Member
Matthew 15:25 - I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


How could it possibly be that the "other sheep" are the gentiles, when christ is not sent unto anybody else BUT the Israelites?


(sorry again, my LDS brethren and sisters. I know this is a mormon thread...)
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Baerly said:
Katzpur asked:- Who are the other sheep Jesus spoke about in (John 10:16)?

Baerly said: In (Eph.2:11-16) We learn that the other sheep Jesus was talking about was the Gentiles. Both kinds of people were brought together into one church
(or body) (Eph.2:16). He was sent to the Jewish people,but his plan of salvation included the Gentiles also.
I believe you're wrong. He said his other sheep would hear "His voice," not merely "His words." His Apostles taught the Gentiles His words. But the others He was talking about were His sheep, those of the house of Israel, the only ones to whom He personally directed His ministry.

I assure you I am genuine.
I'm sure you are genuine. The question is a genuine what? :D

I am speaking the truth in love (Eph.4:15). I am reminded what was wrote in (Gal.1:6-9). We are not to preach another gospel (Gal.1:6-9). Anyone who does is to be accursed. in love Baerly
No, you are speaking what you perceive to be truth, and that's not the same thing at all. The gospel of Jesus Christ today is the same as it was anciently. It's the gospel that was taught during the many years of apostasy that was different.

If you get a chance go to www.bible.ca and look up the Mormon doctrine and see if it is all bull or truth. Just scroll down to the bottom of the home page.
Don't push it, Baerly. I can guarantee that if you do, you'll wish you hadn't. Posting links to websites that promote religious intolerance is not permitted on this forum. I am as sincere in my beliefs as you are in yours, and while I'd rather purr than fight, believe me, this kitty has claws. I have been LDS for 57 years. Over than time, I have attended over 16,000 more LDS worship services than you have. Don't tell me what Mormons teach or believe. If that's too complicated for you, I'd be happy to sum it up in two words.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
PetShopBoy88 said:
Matthew 15:25 - I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


How could it possibly be that the "other sheep" are the gentiles, when christ is not sent unto anybody else BUT the Israelites?


(sorry again, my LDS brethren and sisters. I know this is a mormon thread...)

I haven't been following this thread, but I just wanted to throw out that the people in the Book of Mormon were Israelites.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Baerly said:
I am speaking the truth in love (Eph.4:15).

I could challenge that.



Baerly said:
We are not to preach another gospel (Gal.1:6-9). Anyone who does is to be accursed. .

Anything else other than gospel of Jesus Christ which is what we teach.

Baerly said:
If you get a chance go to www.bible.ca and look up the Mormon doctrine and see if it is all bull or truth.

How about you go to www.lds.org or www.mormon.org and stop being so ignorant. That's where our doctrine is, not some anti-mormon rhtetoic. Are you really giong to lead us to believe you are that ignorant?
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
Don't push it, Baerly. I can guarantee that if you do, you'll wish you hadn't. Posting links to websites that promote religious intolerance is not permitted on this forum. I am as sincere in my beliefs as you are in yours, and while I don't particularly like to fight to defend them, believe me, I do know how. I have been LDS for 57 years. Over than time, I have attended over 16,000 more LDS worship services than you have. Don't tell me what Mormons teach or believe. Got it?

I'll echo the words of Kathryn to you Baerly.

One -- most of us have been practicing members of the LDS Church our whole lives, and yourself, who has never even read the Book of Mormon cannot even have a bit of opinion on what our doctrine is, since you have not even given it a sincere thought.

Two -- Like she said, posting links to religious intolerant sites is not allowed and just rude. I don't go around doing it to you, why do it to me.

Three - Don't push me either, I'm a Mormon, I know my own doctrine.
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
In all fairness, this thread was started to invite questions as to whether Mormons preach a contradictory gospel--we ought to be prepared for affirmative answers, and with a little more than "don't go there."

Baerly, I clicked on that link and I read through the reams of quotes under the three topics. Only the first quoted actual doctrine--that is, words from the Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, or Doctrine and Covenants. Those are the standard works of our church. Yes, I know that many of those quotes are from general authorities, but words of these men can only become doctrine after churchwide approveal, after which they are added to the Doctrine and Covenants.

Some of these books you are quoting have been specifically challenged by the church--specifically Pratt's The Seer, which he wrote during a period of excommunication for preaching false doctrine. Is this where you get your authoritative comments on our beliefs?

The third category was so laughable as to throw the entire website into a bad light. Mormon women need men to reach the Celestial Kingdom? Sure enough, there are two quotes, and both of them are horribly mangled railsplits! If you read the rest of books in question, you'll find that men need women as much as women need men. They need each other, just as Paul said, "neither the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord."

Let's see: first one is partly doctrine--that as God is, man may become--but as that part's supported by the Bible (Children of God, and joint-heirs with Christ) it cannot be construed as contradictory. Second part is non-doctrinal in premise, and unsupported by any scriptural quotes. Third I've already covered, and even if it was true, when you read the whole thing it's a Biblical doctrine.

That's three strikes. For next time, may I recommend you find out what we actually teach in Sunday-school classes, rather than what some guy said a hundred years ago that didn't make it into the books.
 

PetShopBoy88

Active Member
DeepShadow said:
In all fairness, this thread was started to invite questions as to whether Mormons preach a contradictory gospel--we ought to be prepared for affirmative answers, and with a little more than "don't go there."

:yes:
 
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