Christianophobia?

[hoomer]

um ok........but stil 2 biion christians...out of 6 bilion people..is hardy a "small minority"..you must agree to that......in a vote....christianity WOULD win...unless you lump ALL the other reigions inot 1 group....iee christians and non christians.......Ususally voting doesnt work this way.......I'm not a muslim or a hindu or a buddhist.......but I'm not part of the 2 bilion either.......

but whatever this is a semantic pedantic argument

visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem

 

[hoomer]

Unfortunately, I don't see it as being that simple. Christianity is not a religion based on hate. But I've heard lots of accounts of people being tortured, killed, harrassed, etc., by Christians.

Rent the movie Saved! sometime. It's about a Christian school. Now granted, it exagerates the problem a bit, but gives a pretty good account of what some "Christians" can be like. Just because a religion isn't based on hate, doesn't mean that it's followers are all loving.

in pode that movie illustrastes how SOME christians act......sadly...I think its a large minority of christians in america....I dont know...but heck...the US president is one of these kinds of christians....... are they really a small tiny lunatic fringe that we shoudnt realy worry about............ any more????

 

[eridun]

pdoel - that is a great movie, even easier to appreciate as one who went to catholic school for 8 years.

it's true that christianity is not a religion based in hate, but of all the religions i've studied (and am continuing to study) they are the one of the quickest to condemn you to hell if you're not with them. I always found that faintly distrubing. it's one of the reasons that i'm not catholic anymore.

 

[Scuba Pete]

OK, we are now comparing Christianity to a terrorist organization (the KKK). Can we try to get a little more obtuse than this???

How about NON-terrorist groups? Like the Republican National Party??? Well, even though they are evil, close to being a terrorist cell in their own right , I would still have no problem with that!

 

[hoomer]

cheese

 

[Scorn]

I thought this thread was closed? I wasted a great post moments after it shut down for business.

 

[Green Gaia]

Sorry about that Scorn. I closed it for a couple hours so some people could cool down a bit. Hopefully this will go a bit more rationally now.

 

[Scorn]

N/P Maize. The post probably wasn't as great as I thought anyway. Hehehe

 

[retrorich]

Sorry about that Scorn. I closed it for a couple hours so some people could cool down a bit. Hopefully this will go a bit more rationally now.

Ah...so freedom of speech has been restored to this thread. Thank you, Maize.

That being the case:

I find it highly ironic that just as the U.S. Christian majority has established firm control of the U.S. national government and many of the state governments for the foreseeable future, and the Christian majority, led by George W. Bush, is moving forward aggressively with its anti-gay, anti-choice, pro-religion-in-public-schools, pro-religious-icons-in-government-and-tax-supported-buildings agenda, we have Christians whining about being persecuted and threatened. Nonsense!

 

[pdoel]

OK, we are now comparing Christianity to a terrorist organization (the KKK). Can we try to get a little more obtuse than this???

How about NON-terrorist groups? Like the Republican National Party??? Well, even though they are evil, close to being a terrorist cell in their own right , I would still have no problem with that!

I hate to break this to you, but most terrorist organizations are religious based. The 9/11 attacks were done for religious reasons. Most historical wars, were based on religion. It's not something, I, as a Christian, am proud of, but it's a fact.

And yes, I realize that these are religious extremists, but still, my point stands. Not all followers of Christ, or any other diety are loving. Many are filled with hate.

I went to a very strict private Presbyterian College. You'd be amazed at the stuff that school would pull. I knew a girl who tried to commit suicide. Afterwards, one of the psych professors was counseling her. The administration came to the professor and told her to quit counseling, that it's not their problem, and they don't want to waste any resources, and that if the girl needs help, to have her parents get the help for her, it wasn't their job. Real Christian.

A kid once had brought an antique gun onto campus, and accidentally (or so we think), shot himself, and died. Some news stations came in to interview the school. The school's response was, "Students know guns are not permitted on campus. He should have known better."

Some students were interviewed as well. Every student who spoke on camera was called down to administration, and told to never speak to the media again about anything related to the school.

Nice Christian group there. I remember getting threatening letters in our mail every day from Administration. Then a week before Christmas break, you get the, "Soon you will be going home for Christmas, and spending time with family and friends. Be sure to tell them how wonderful a time you are having here at school, and of how much you love studying here."

 

[hoomer]

Ah...so freedom of speech has been restored to this thread. Thank you, Maize.

That being the case:

I find it highly ironic that just as the U.S. Christian majority has established firm control of the U.S. national government and many of the state governments for the foreseeable future, and the Christian majority, led by George W. Bush, is moving forward aggressively with its anti-gay, anti-choice, pro-religion-in-public-schools, pro-religious-icons-in-government-and-tax-supported-buildings agenda, we have Christians whining about being persecuted and threatened. Nonsense!

:biglaugh: utterly ironic isnt it rich......"they" are in power...and yet "they" are being persecuted

 

[hoomer]

I hate to break this to you, but most terrorist organizations are religious based. The 9/11 attacks were done for religious reasons. Most historical wars, were based on religion. It's not something, I, as a Christian, am proud of, but it's a fact.

And yes, I realize that these are religious extremists, but still, my point stands. Not all followers of Christ, or any other diety are loving. Many are filled with hate.

I went to a very strict private Presbyterian College. You'd be amazed at the stuff that school would pull. I knew a girl who tried to commit suicide. Afterwards, one of the psych professors was counseling her. The administration came to the professor and told her to quit counseling, that it's not their problem, and they don't want to waste any resources, and that if the girl needs help, to have her parents get the help for her, it wasn't their job. Real Christian.

A kid once had brought an antique gun onto campus, and accidentally (or so we think), shot himself, and died. Some news stations came in to interview the school. The school's response was, "Students know guns are not permitted on campus. He should have known better."

Some students were interviewed as well. Every student who spoke on camera was called down to administration, and told to never speak to the media again about anything related to the school.

Nice Christian group there. I remember getting threatening letters in our mail every day from Administration. Then a week before Christmas break, you get the, "Soon you will be going home for Christmas, and spending time with family and friends. Be sure to tell them how wonderful a time you are having here at school, and of how much you love studying here."

geez podel...this is why for those looking from the outside tis easy to jump to the concusion that christians...."are bad"...

I wonder what broied christian tastes like?

 

[pdoel]

geez podel...this is why for those looking from the outside tis easy to jump to the concusion that christians...."are bad"...

I wonder what broied christian tastes like?

Heh heh. True. Unfortunately, just like any other group, it's the bad ones who ruin it for everyone. I know that the large majority of Christians are very good people, who do their best, who are loving, who, while they make mistakes, do try and follow God's will, and the teachings of Christ.

But unfortunately, when you turn on the TV, and you see "Christians" protesting outside a court house where gays are trying to fight for the right to marry, and they say things like, "God hates gays, and they should all burn in hell!" Or, when you see footage of the trial of the murderers of Matthew Shephard, and you see "Christians" with signs saying, "Let them go! They did God's work! Matthew belongs in Hell!".

And you see people for the KKK, talking all their hate, and most of those people are offiliated with religion.

So, it's sad that the bad apples have to ruin it for everyone, but that happens with every group. Not just religions.

 

[Hope]

First of all, I am a little concerned, Hoomer, by your attitude toward Christianity. Some respect, at least, would be nice.

This topic reminds me of the words of Jesus Himself..."You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved." ( Matt. 10:22 ) And...."But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synogogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governers for My name's sake. It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony. So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, and you will be hated by all because of My name." ( Luke 21: 12-17 )

Persecution was something Jesus told us to expect. I would actually be worried if there was no persecution of Christians. As others have pointed out, though, we as Western Christians have it incredibly easy----it is other Christians, in other parts of the world, who are still dying for their faith. In some ways I envy them, for severe hardship and persecution actually usually do the opposite of what they intend: they strengthen the believer's faith, not weaken it. Under no oppression, one simply begins to take everything for granted, and gets complacent. Only when something goes through 'fire', is its true worth seen. " Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work." ( I Cor. 3:12-13 ) I don't want to end up with wood or hay that will simply burn up---I want precious stones, and gold, and silver, that will endure the fire, and come through it purified and refined.

 

[oracle]

Because, unfortunately, the "bad apples" are usually the most vocal and visual (I'm thinking of people like Fred Phelps here). Also, I see in the case of Christianity, the "bad apples" becoming the majority and I don't see enough "true" followers speaking out against these people.

Let me make clear: I have no problem with Christianity itself, just the way some people claim to practice it.

I generally have a problem with systematical side of Christianity, including theologies, doctrines, and legalism.

1. They don't make sense.
2. They are inconsistent within their context.
3. They are not consistent with reality.

Q: Why the crucifix makes you free of sin?
A: Because it was God's only son and God loves us so he sent his son to be sacrificed.
Q: Well why does God need a carnal sacrifice?
A: Because God said so.

And this is coming from someone who has been a Christian for 18 years.

 

[DianeVera]

On Eastern Europe, though, they didn't do this now, when they are unstable, but throughout the bulk of the twentieth century when they had a stable government. The USSR doesn't strike me as being too unstable until the very end.

They weren't particularly stable in the early-to-mid twentieth century either. The Communist governments of Eastern Europe were all either (1) the result of revolution or (2) imposed by a conqueror. Post-revolutionary governments nearly always tend to be insecure, hence tyrannical. (A rare exception was the American Revolution, probably because it wasn't a real revolution -- the American colonies always were pretty much self-governing to begin with.) Revolutions are always messy, though they may have eventual good results in the long run.

 

[Ody]

And the Jews weren't rounded up prior to the holocaust, but the phobia was there. It just goes to show where phobias can lead.

To say that thier is anti christian sentiment that reaches anti-semitism prior to the holocaust is pure drivel, you ask why?
1.) No major political partys running on prejudice against christians, something that jews had to suffer
2. Christians have not suffered pogroms, nor have they suffered years of being called "christ killers", "baby eaters" or "devil worshippers".

Know history prior to posting on the forums pls

 

[ChrisP]

Come on!! it's not becoming more biased, we're just hearing opposing views more frequently. Global media like the internet and satellite TV are making a broader range of global opinions public knowledge. When anybody has somewhere like the internet to go to spread their views you're going to get every larry's story.

 

[Ðanisty]

I'm not sure why such an old thread was dug up, but I've read all of it and have some comments.

It doesn't matter whether they truly are the majority or are a very vocal minority if the results are the same.

This is true...it applies to Christianity too. Unless the hateful vocal Christian minority is silenced, it won't make a difference that they are the minority.

A "phobia" is a fear, I don't think most people that disagree with Christian based systems actually "fear" it, it is just a result of what has come before and since because of those systems.

I agree. Most people aren't afraid of Christianity...just fed up with it.

Because, unfortunately, the "bad apples" are usually the most vocal and visual (I'm thinking of people like Fred Phelps here). Also, I see in the case of Christianity, the "bad apples" becoming the majority and I don't see enough "true" followers speaking out against these people.

This reminds me of Islam as well. Neither religion is inherently bad, but the good followers are allowing these "bad apples" to spoil the bunch. This bad minority should be removed, shunned, ostracized, etc. It needs to be made clear that they are the minority and they don't represent the religion as a whole. Otherwise, I will continue to believe that this minority is spoiling the bunch and thus becoming the majority.

Everytime a law is passed that removes God from our public life, it can be considered a threat to a christian.

Isn't God always with you? Surely you don't have to see God for him to be there...if that were the case, then God wouldn't even exist because nobody's seen him.

Why do humanists have a problem with creationism being taught alongside evolution? There's no more proof for evolution than there is for creationism so it can't be because evolution is based on "fact". Even the scientists are finally speaking up and saying it's not.

Because evolution is science and creation is mythology. I wouldn't have a problem with creation being taught in schools as an elective course provided the course taught all major creation stories and they were taught as mythology.

Just as you find the thought of living in a Christian run country horrific, many Christians find the thought of living in an atheistic country just as bad.

The country isn't atheist...it's secular.

If the schools involved are tax supported, Bible classes and religious posters/icons don't belong there. That's what churches are for.

Exactly!

Yes Hoomer, But isn't it possible that there is a large population of Christians who would like nothing more than to change the tide of the past (not forget it mind you) but to actually follow Christ in his teachings and better the world for it?

The bold emphasis is mine. The idea that Christians want to use Christianity to better the world isn't frightening. What's disturbing is the fact that, to do that, Christians feel they have to convert everybody. The tide of the past is a reflection of that. You are essentially saying that Christians want to correct the misdeeds of enforcing their religion by enforcing their religion. If Christians really want to better the world, the best way would be to leave people be and let them practice their own religions.

 

[Flappycat]

Complete article here

Is 'Christianophobia' Real?

Well, I think a lot of people are bitter about Christianity being the dominant and, for a long time, the most belligerent religious entity in the world. Recently, many Christians have learned something in the way of humility, but it's going to take a while to fully register in some places.