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Christianity verses athiests

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
"Good reason to believe something" does not necessarily mean it must be backed up by scientific or physical evidence and I never implied such. Good reasons can come in the form of philosophical argument, logical induction, even intuitive induction, but never appeal to emotion, appeal to what you wish to be true, or appeal to faith.
"Good reason to believe something" is completely subjective to the one who decides what is and what is not "good reason to believe something".

And because it is subjective, I have to completely disagree that their "good reason to believe something" has to come "in the form of philosophical argument, logical induction, even intuitive induction" and in fact can come from appeal to emotion, appeal to what you wish to be true, appeal to faith, Pascals Wager, appeal to numbers, appeal to authority, and any other logical fallacy or even any whim or flight of fancy.

"Form of philosophical argument, logical induction, even intuitive induction" is YOUR standard of "good reason to believe something" and does not have to apply to anyone else.
 

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Then present your criteria for truth, and we shall debate that.
Being true.

I msut warn you, however, that your bible is far from self-supporting evidence, considering the self-contradictions and disproved myths.
SmileyROFLMAO.gif

I am not a Christian.
 

Tathagata

Freethinker
"It's a real, intellectual division. Just because we are all humans doesn't mean there aren't divisions. "

O, then what is this "division"? What is it that the atheist has that the theist does not have?

I just told you. The Atheist differs from the Theist in that they adhere to different philosophies. As I said, it's an intellectual division.

"There are no males and females, we're all just humans."

As most are aware, there are actual physiological differences between a man and a woman. I am sorry you have to learn about the birds and the bees this way. But unlike you, women were not born with a pee-pee.

Did you not notice that I put that statement in quotations and in a sarcastic tone? I was demonstrating the absurdity of your argument that because we are all the same species, that there are no divisions between us (i.e. physiological and psychological).


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waitasec

Veteran Member
It is happening all over the world.... More so in industrialized free nations like the US, Canada and Europe. I myself live in Canada and the debate here while not politicized like in the US, the debate is still a popular one.

In the UK I know for sure it's a big debate that was popularized years ago by Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins.

i disagree
the FACT that you admit
"the debate here while not politicized like in the US" makes ALL the difference.

how do the religious interfere with peoples rights in canada?
is there an area in your country that can compare to the bible belt in the US?

what polarizes the US is RELIGION. the conservative right uses religion to gather up intolerance...
glenn beck. are there such individuals in canada that can be compared to beck?
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
O, then what is this "division"? What is it that the atheist has that the theist does not have?

I just told you. The Atheist differs from the Theist in that they adhere to different philosophies. As I said, it's an intellectual division.



Did you not notice that I put that statement in quotations and in a sarcastic tone? I was demonstrating the absurdity of your argument that because we are all the same species, that there are no divisions between us (i.e. physiological and psychological).


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" The Atheist differs from the Theist in that they adhere to different philosophies."

So now atheists and theists must adhere to certain philosophies?

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The idea that "faith" gives you special insight, is akin to idea that reason based beliefs are superior to faith based ones. In that typically it is nothing more then the individual stroking their ego; making a plead to their perceived authority. Atheist and thiest are both alike, they are both self-centered and egotistical. This is a natural human quality which we all share.
 
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Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
why do athiests keep demanding "evidence" of god's existence or biblical beliefs from christians when THERE IS NONE?

why do christions keep trying to present "evidence" of god's existence or of biblical beliefs to athiests when THERE IS NONE

the only evidence that could prove or disprove either would have to be conceived by one of the five senses, touch, taste, smell, hearing or sight. IT DOESNT EXIST

FAITH, an intangible force, derived through a sixth sense from ones mind and heart is all that there is that devides the two.

either you have it or you dont. GIVE IT A REST
\

How do you do know that faith proves anything? Over 6 billion people have faith in their different creeds and somebody must be wrong. Maybe the reason that this sixth sense is not used as much as the others is because it is so inept.
 
Huh?
Belief in a "soul" does not equate belief in god.

No but it doesn't serve an evolutionary purpose. It takes more than just a disbelief in God to be an atheist. By your logic a Buddhist would be an atheist and they are not.

It takes rational and critical thinking to be an atheist and if you believe in an eternal soul.... Well, than you clearly lack this attribute and so you would have to be placed in group 'Spiritual'.
 

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Yet you continually talk the talk.
How about you go read my 16,800+ posts and then see if you still think I am a Christian...

Interesting it is how you are more concerned with labeling me a Christian than you are with actually paying enough attention to the thread to understand that one persons "proof" and or "evidence" is another persons "garbage".
 

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
No but it doesn't serve an evolutionary purpose. It takes more than just a disbelief in God to be an atheist. By your logic a Buddhist would be an atheist and they are not.

It takes rational and critical thinking to be an atheist and if you believe in an eternal soul.... Well, than you clearly lack this attribute and so you would have to be placed in group 'Spiritual'.

1. Or the soul/spirit is a part of the Evolution of Man.
2. Buddhists are, for the most part, Atheists...

1 : archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity
 

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
No but it doesn't serve an evolutionary purpose.
Atheism does not equate accepting evolution.
Atheism is merely not believing in a god.

It takes more than just a disbelief in God to be an atheist.
As a matter of fact, no it does not.

By your logic a Buddhist would be an atheist and they are not.
They aren't?
I know several Buddhists who flat out say they are?
Are you telling me that you know more about thier beliefs than they do?

It takes rational and critical thinking to be an atheist and if you believe in an eternal soul....
No, it takes NOTHING MORE than to not believe in a god to be an atheist.

Well, than you clearly lack this attribute and so you would have to be placed in group 'Spiritual'.
You know nothing about my beliefs, so stop trying to put your meaningless labels on me.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
No but it doesn't serve an evolutionary purpose. It takes more than just a disbelief in God to be an atheist. By your logic a Buddhist would be an atheist and they are not.

It takes rational and critical thinking to be an atheist and if you believe in an eternal soul.... Well, than you clearly lack this attribute and so you would have to be placed in group 'Spiritual'.
*headdesk*

So this is where all the "atheism is a religion" misconceptions come from. "Atheist" literally means "without a belief in god", and that is the only qualifier. Believing in souls without believing in God makes you atheistic, but not necessarily rational.
 

Tathagata

Freethinker
" The Atheist differs from the Theist in that they adhere to different philosophies."

So now atheists and theists must adhere to certain philosophies?

Of course. What do you think Atheism and Theism is? The Atheist adheres to a Godless philosophy and the Theist adheres to some sort of God-centered philosophy.

----

The idea that "faith" gives you special insight, is akin to idea that reason based beliefs are superior to faith based ones.

No, because reason based beliefs are justifiable, faith ones are not.

In that typically it is nothing more then the individual stroking their ego; making a plead to their perceived authority. Atheist and thiest are both alike, they are both self-centered and egotistical. This is a natural human quality which we all share.

Just because an Atheist and a Theist share a certain personal trait (which is not true, and if it is, it applies to everyone, not just "Theist/Atheist"), doesn't mean that they share the same intellectual trait. You don't seem to be able to understand things can be different while still sharing similarities. You think that if something shares a few of the same qualities, that therefore they are the same. You might as well say "red and green are the same; they are both colors." No, they are not the same, one is red, one is green, despite that they are both colors.


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1. Or the soul/spirit is a part of the Evolution of Man.
2. Buddhists are, for the most part, Atheists...

1 : archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

2-b is exactly what I am talking about.... Atheists accept rational thinking over irrational thinking. If there was one thin mutually exclusive to all true atheists, it would be logical thought. That why we don't believe in nonsense.

The soul or spirit would serve no purpose in our evolution. In fact the soul and the idea of it automatically devalues life and living....

Buddhists believe in reincarnation, they also have deities as well. Buddha would be their equivalent to Christ. There are also different types of Buddhism as well. They may not believe a creator, but they certainly have deities.

Again a soul aside from not being supported by anything tangible would hinder us more than benefit us.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Atheists accept rational thinking over irrational thinking. If there was one thin mutually exclusive to all true atheists, it would be logical thought.
No, it would be lack of a belief in God. That's what the word means.
 

Tathagata

Freethinker
2-b is exactly what I am talking about.... Atheists accept rational thinking over irrational thinking. If there was one thin mutually exclusive to all true atheists, it would be logical thought. That why we don't believe in nonsense.

The soul or spirit would serve no purpose in our evolution. In fact the soul and the idea of it automatically devalues life and living....

Buddhists believe in reincarnation,

False. In fact, Buddha reprimanded a disciple for believing in reincarnation. I don't know where you got that absurd notion from.

Sati: "Yes, venerable sir, as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences."

The Buddha: "Foolish man, to whom do you know me having preached this Teaching. Haven't I told, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet, you foolish man, because of your wrong grasp, blame me, destroy yourself, and accumulate much demerit."

[Mahātaṇhāsaṅkhaya Sutta]

they also have deities as well.

Utterly false. See my thread here where Buddha explicitly denied all concepts of God: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...101720-buddha-not-silent-god-metaphysics.html.

You must be thinking of devas and Brahmas, which Buddha acknowledged their existence, but clearly denied their God-hood and called them ignorant.

Many Atheists believe that Kim Jong Il exists, who is believed to be a deity by N. Korea. But does that mean that Atheists are now Theists because they believe Kim Jong Il exists? No, because they deny that he is a God.

Buddha would be their equivalent to Christ.

In what way? The only similarity between them is the fact that they are central figures in two different religions.

There are also different types of Buddhism as well. They may not believe a creator, but they certainly have deities.

Again, see above.

Again a soul aside from not being supported by anything tangible would hinder us more than benefit us.

Buddhists don't believe in a soul.

the Buddha: "The assertion of philosophical views concerning the elements that make up personality and its environing world that are non-existent, assume the existence of an ego, a being, a soul, a living being, a "nourisher", or a spirit. This is an example of philosophical views that are not true. It is this combination of discrimination of imaginary marks of individuality, grouping them and giving them a name and becoming attached to them as objects, by reason of habit-energy that has been accumulated since beginningless time, that one builds up erroneous views whose only basis is false-imaginations." [Lankavatara Sutra]

Buddha: "In this same class the disciples are the earnest disciples of other faiths, who clinging to the notions of such things as, the soul as an external entity, Supreme Atman, Personal God, seek a [belief] that is in harmony with them. ...But none of these, earnest though they be, have gained an insight into the truth of the twofold egolessness and are, therefore, of limited spiritual insights as regards deliverance and non-deliverance; for them there is no emancipation. They have great self-confidence but they can never gain a true knowledge of Nirvana." [Lankavatara Sutra]

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ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
There is still one thing that I don't understand: The title of this thread is Christianity vs. Theists, but there are other religions (with a deity) with even more followers than Christianity. There are Hindus, Pagans, and others. There are people of these faiths at the RF. Shouldn't the title have been : Theists vs. Atheists (but there doesn't really need to be a war, if people would just remember that not everyone thinks the same way they do).
 
No, it would be lack of a belief in God. That's what the word means.

The lack of belief comes from logic, critical thinking and rationality.... The belief in a soul, reincarnation and other things do not the above.

Most people who believe in some sort of afterlife without a god call themselves spiritual because they are. A dictionary definition is politically correct, however of all my fellow atheist I know none who believe in a soul.

To believe in a religion makes you religious not atheistic.... A far more correct term for what a real atheist is should be an anti-theist since we outright reject these ideals all together on the basis that they are no more based in reality than a fairy tale.
 

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
The lack of belief comes from logic, critical thinking and rationality.... The belief in a soul, reincarnation and other things do not the above.

Again, you ignore the raw definition. Atheism is merely disbelief in a God.

You can be a rational atheist or an irrational atheist or a spiritual atheist.

All of the former tags do not affect the key definition; belief, or non-belief in a deity.
 
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