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Christianity - Once Saved Always Saved?

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Squirt, Feb 6, 2006.

?
  1. Yes.

    19 vote(s)
    42.2%
  2. No.

    21 vote(s)
    46.7%
  3. I don't know.

    5 vote(s)
    11.1%
  1. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    IMO it implies that your works are no longer seen as filthy rags and are savific because of the work done for us all in Calvary.
     
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  2. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Wonderful response! Perfect response! :highfive:
     
  3. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    I put "yes". Based on what scipture? Well, the entire Bible really. The Bible tells us not to get drunk. If someone is saved, but then they are a drunk for the rest of their lives, why would they go to Heaven? God tells us that we should believe in him. If someone is saved in their youth, but later turns to atheism, why in the world would they have salvation, and be able to go to Heaven? The Bible tells us to do good works. If someone is just what I like to call a Sunday-morning Christian- that is, someone who likes to come to church on sunday to show how religious they are, but does nothing godly during the week-would they be saved? If someone leaves their wife and commits adultery, and never goes to church again, why would they be saved?

    God sets down rules to follow. If we don't do what he says, we're not getting saved. And that's the bottom line.
     
  4. Lindsey-Loo

    Lindsey-Loo Steel Magnolia

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    I'm curious- how do you define "rejecting Christ completely"? Cause I was just thinking, in my post above, I mentioned that people who turn to atheism, or who commit adultery and never go to church again won't be saved. So, in a way, do we believe the in the same principle? I'm not sure, you tell me.
     
  5. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Some scripture references:

    Luke 8:13 - Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.
    Luke 12:42-46 - we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

    John 6:70-71 - Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.

    Matt. 7:18 - Jesus says that sound trees bear good fruit. But there is no guarantee that a sound tree will stay sound. It could go rotten.

    John 15:1-10 - we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don't bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.

    Just to name a few. :)
     
  6. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Explain how what your works do for you in light of this scripture from Ephesians 2:

    "[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast."
     
  7. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    We are not saved by any works we do. We could do good works every day of our lives, from the moment we woke up until the moment we fell asleep and be no closer to heaven than we'd be without them. I don't believe that when we stand before God to be judged, He is going to weigh our good deeds against our bad deeds and, provided we come out with the good deeds weighing in heavier than the bad ones, allow us into heaven. We are all sinners and are all in equal need of a Savior. Even the very best among us has sinned in some way at some time in our live. Without the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, none of us could stand before God free from guilt.

    Our Lord, Jesus Christ, was under no obligation whatsoever to take upon Himself the debt we have incurred throughout our lives. As the only perfect individual to have ever lived, He alone was in a position to be able to satisfy the demands of justice set by God, our Father in Heaven. We are incapable of doing so ourselves and are completely at His mercy. Consequently, we know that we are in a position where we have to rely on Him to do for us what we cannot do ourselves. Because He willingly and gladly ransomed our souls and made it possible to return to the presence of God, and because He could have chosen not to do so, His Atonement is a gift.

    We acknowledge receipt of this gift by repenting of our sins and entering into a covenant relationship with Him in which we promise to continue to honor Him throughout our lives. We covenant to demonstrate our faith in Him by being obedient to His commandments. He made it quite clear that not everyone who calls upon Him as their Savior will be saved, but those who keep His Father's commandments. It is for this reason that He is said to be the "author of salvation unto all them that obey Him."

    I don't think our beliefs are really all that far apart. To me, it's more a matter of how we are expressing ourselves.
     
  8. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Is this the same Squirt who said this?



    Can you reconcile these two statements?
     
  9. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    One is works of the Law/of men the other is works done in Christ. More importantly is how you excuse those verses that speak highly of works?
     
  10. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

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    I don't believe that there is a salvation. When you die you are gone.......thats it.
     
  11. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Just peachy....have fun with the wormies.
     
  12. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

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    :biglaugh: It could be fun.......no wait....they are asexual....right?
     
  13. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Well, I already tried. Sorry I was not successful. I'll try to put it a bit more concisely this time:

    Our works do not save us. Christ's Atonement is what saves us. What our works can do is make it possible for grace to be operative in our lives. Christ's "gift" is offered only to those who are willing to walk the walk as opposed to merely talking the talk. It's still a gift because He doesn't have to offer it at all, and we couldn't be saved without it.
     
  14. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    I believe that yes, you can loose it.

    I personally find more to do with works more than not.

    Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Tit 1:16 They profess that they know Elohim; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

    Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

    Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

    Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the set-apart spirit, whom Elohim hath given to them that obey him.
    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, Elohim: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

    1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of Elohim, when we love Elohim, and keep his commandments.

    1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of Elohim, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

    Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of Elohim, and have the testimony of Yahshua Ha Mashiach.

    Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of Elohim, and the faith of Yahshua.

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before Elohim; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
     
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  15. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    And yet, the Bible tells us that Christ died once, for all. The work of oura salvation has been accomplished by Christ. How is it in any way logical that we can do something to diminish or destroy that work?
     
  16. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    And yet there are so many different ways to look at it and so many think they are the only ones that are right. Yes, I am one of them. ;)

    To each his/her own.

    One, in my own opinion, can diminish by sin.

    I might just be tired and not just see what is in front of my face but where in Scripture does it state that Yahshua continues to forgive our sins over and over and over and over and over? Or where does it state that He forgives all future sins?
     
  17. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    I forgot about this thread or would have been back sooner. Too many to keep up with.

    I think when you accept Christ the first time around....you are annointed by grace at that moment. That very first acceptance of Christ seals you in His book of names. All of us sin and must ask for forgiveness throughout our lives. We are not given a free ride as some of you may think when someone says "once saved, always saved". Some believers stray for a time.....or many years. I believe the Holy Spirit brings those people back to Jesus. I have seen it happen too often to not believe it. My husband is the only example I'll give as I don't want to betray the confidence of others I know. He accepted Christ when he was very young and then wandered away for years and years till he met me. Often I think we were brought together so that he could renew a relationship with God.

    I'm not saying it's impossible to lose your faith, I think it is possible if you continually reject God later in your life. But, I don't think God has a score book keeping track of all the people you witness to, the good deeds you perform, or how little you swear. That would be considered 'works' and has nothing to do with salvation. Good deeds and witnessing are considered fruit of the spirit. I am not terribly comfortable witnessing unless someone shows an interest. Otherwise it doesn't feel right to me.

    And it is NOT sin to have a drink. Where does that come from? Why do people think it is a sin to have a drink? It is considered sinful to go around being a drunkard all the time. Having a drink in moderation is perfectly fine with God. I am convinced of that....otherwise he wouldn't have turned water into wine at the wedding in Cana. It was considered a miracle and turned out to be some good stuff too! :)
     
  18. roli

    roli Born Again,Spirit Filled

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    Opinions are a great thing in some cases but it must line up with the word
    Slavation does not occur through ,"Metamorphosis
    You may never reject salvation ,but at some point in your natural life you must confess, accept believe and recieve that Jesus is Lord and accept His atoning sacrifice made on your behalf by His death burial and resurrection thru Hisblood

    Salvation is apparently Conditional; " according to scripture and is not subject to interpretation,or opinion although you are free to express it.
    A person can accept salvation but receiving is the key to conversion
    Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
    2Cor 7:10For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
     
  19. Baerly

    Baerly Active Member

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    Can one be lost after once being saved? ---------- Yes, according to the bible.

    (2 Peter 2:21) teaches all christians that if we turn from the holy commandments we will be lost. Those are some ugly images these verses talk about.

    (Heb. 10:26-31) tells us that if a christian wilfully chooses to continue in sin the blood of Jesus will not cover that persons sins. Without the Blood of Jesus there is no salvation.

    (Heb. 6:4-6) Teaches us that if a christian falls away from truth and continues therin long enough,they will eventually become so hard hearted towards the word of God it is IMPOSSIBLE to renew them to repentance.

    The apostle Paul even said it was possible for him to be lost after he had been saved according to (1Cor. 9:27).

    (Rev. 2:5) Jesus talking to the church at Ephesus told them that if they did not repent Jesus would remove their candlestick.

    These are just a few bible examples. We could list more..... in love Baerly
     
  20. Baerly

    Baerly Active Member

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    Hi, I have a question. If these verses above are the plan of salvation, then when we obey them the blood of Jesus should take away our sins correct? If that be so, Please tell me how you would harmonize what the bible teaches in (Acts 22:16)? Because the scriptures teach that sins are washed away when one is baptized in water according to (Acts 8:35-38). The reason the Ethiopian eunich was happy is because he was taught sins were washed away at water baptism according to (Acts 22:16). We cannot have part with God until our sins are washed away according to (Isaiah 59:1,2). Help me harmonize these scriptures with what you have taught please? -in love Baerly


    -in love baerly
     
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