1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Christian: God: not three Persons??

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Hope, Jan 6, 2005.

  1. Hope

    Hope Princesinha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    2,363
    Ratings:
    +407
    This thread is mainly directed at those who claim to be 'Christians' and yet discard belief in a triune God. I'm genuinely curious as to what this unbelief is based on. Please enlighten me!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +61
    to do this properly we would have agree on a translation to use.but it was a great idea.

    Acts7:35
    Joh 17:3
    Ga4:14
    Joh 14:28
    John 15:10
    John15:1
    Luke16:8
    Matthew 26:39
    1tim2:5
    Dan9:12
    dan12:1
    heb5:8,9
    heb1:2-4
    1co3:23
    1co11:3
    1pe1:3
    john4:6
    rev3:12
    acts3:13
    acts3:26
    isa42:1
    John13:16
    Joh 7:16
    Matthew20:28
    john3:35
    heb4:15
    Jas 1:13
    Nu 23:19
    2Sam7:13-16
    Isa53:10-12
    1co15:20
    1Th 4:14
    1Ti6:3
    1Ti 3:16
    1ti4:7
    rev17:14
    Da 2:37
    1Ti6:15
    Eze 26:7
    Ezr 7:12
    Ro8:29
    Colossians1:18
    heb12:23
    rev1:5
    mt7:14
    acts5:31
    1John2:12-14
    John 5:21
    John 5:25
    1Th4:16
    Jud13:21,22
    1co15:28
    heb5:9
    acts2:36
    Zec3:1-3
    Ex23:20-22
    heb2:17
    john14:31
    ro8:17
    john20:23
    Ps8:4-6
    Ps 82:6
    Joh 10:34
    1Co 8:5,6
    ect.

    please excuse me if i've repeated anything, i have no organized notes nor have i finished all that i could of said scripturally, but as you may imagine, i also am about to retire for the night as i too am tired.
     
  3. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,392
    Ratings:
    +51
    Your New Testament says he is the first-born of all creation, from whom is he born of, if he is God?
    Revelations says "I am the Alpha and Omega", Aleph and the Tav in Hebrew, or et/difinate article Hebrew alphabet, by implication the Word of God(also NTterm for Yeshua) or Torah, the Word of God became flesh and dwelt among us. In the beginning was the Word(of God). The Word of God goes forth from the mouth of God, and shall not return to him void. Also NT term Son of God.
    "Hear O Israel the Lord thy God is ONE."
    Dear Hope, the trinity isn't in the Bible for one good reason, there is no trinity!!!!
     
  4. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,125
    Ratings:
    +48
    The Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit never manifested itself in the form of a person/being.

    The disciple Stephen looked up into heaven on bended knee and saw God with Jesus at God's right side. No mention of the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit).

    The Holy Ghost/Spirit appeared above persons heads for Pentecost 33 CE as tongues of fire. The Holy Ghost/Spirit appeared above Jesus as a dove. And Holy Spirit is said to have filled the disciples of Christ.
     
  5. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +61
    i assume ronald was referring to jesus/yeshua(he) when he said basically that he is not god.

    this is wrong, jesus/yeshua is most certainly eloah(god), just not almighty.
     
  6. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,303
    Ratings:
    +951
    Now I'm really confused...... how can God not be almighty?

    ..... are there different levels of God..... a Junior God..... God First Class..... God in training.....:confused:
     
  7. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +61
    ex7:1

    to be elohim(mighty one or the more common "god") is not to be el-shaddai(almighty)

    john10:34
     
  8. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    This feels like I'm back in the Jehovah's Witness thread.

    Anyway, the term "firstborn" in this passage ( I believe that you are refering to Colossians 1:15) does not literally mean "first to be born". The greek term signifies the preeminence, authority, power, etc. over creation. It is stating Christ's position over creation, not order in which He was made in it.
     
  9. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,392
    Ratings:
    +51
    So HelpMe, just where does Y H V H say I am Yeshua or Yeshua/Jesus say I am Y H V H.
    I am completely familar with all, ALL of the Proof texts eluding to a triune God, a duality, ect, ect.
    But the quotation of "I am God!" seems to elude me. So where is it? Since you are convinced he is God, you must have an iron clad proof. So give it up. Please!
     
  10. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +61
    i'm not a trinitarian.you've encountered me on this issue before, is your memory short?

    yeshua is scripturally an eloah(god/mighty one).

    consider john10:34 and why yeshua simply didn't deny being eloah.ps86:2 and ex7:1 would be a good start, even [yhwh] called moses an elohim...are you saying moses was greater than yeshua?

    also read john3:35.
     
  11. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,392
    Ratings:
    +51
    NO iron clad truths.Eh!

    6 ¶ I say, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;

    7 nevertheless,(Yeshua ,died like men) you shall die like men, and fall like any prince."

    But, SONS of God are raised up! Isn't this the Most Important Point!

    Yeshua the 'Firster' man Adam. born of pure blood, lived sinless, qualified as perfect lamb of God. the price of redemption for tainted/unclean mankind. Giving mankind a Way to become Sons of God, clean and sinless, empowered to keep the commandments and qualify for Election. Halakah/Way/Derek
     
  12. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +61
    you've offered not one single nearly iron clad proof that yeshua was/is not an elohim.

    hold yourself to your own standards for others.
     
  13. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,125
    Ratings:
    +48
  14. Hope

    Hope Princesinha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    2,363
    Ratings:
    +407
    I confess I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to ancient languages; however, it seems to me that everyone at least agrees that in the Scriptures there exists all three 'parts' of the Trinity---the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And Jesus states more than once that He and the Father are one. If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not parts of the Godhead, then what are they?? That is where some of you are losing me. I understand that the word 'trinity' is not used in scripture---it is a term used only to describe the nature of God, as it is, at least to me, outlined in Scripture. I remember that thread 1+1+1=1?, t3gah. But, to me, you can't use simple mathematics to try to define a Being who is infinite and already beyond our human comprehension. We can't put Someone in a box who is beyond any box we could ever conceive. ;)

    But this fascinates me....please continue to explain things to me.:confused:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +61
    john10:30"I and the Father are one."

    john17:11"And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we [are]."

    john17:21,22"that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me.And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we [are] one;"

    john14:28"Ye heard how I said to you, I go away, and I come unto you. If ye loved me, ye would have rejoiced, because I go unto the Father: for the Father is greater than I."


    i don't want to tell you what to believe or what these mean, i would like to hear your opinions on them though.
     
  16. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,125
    Ratings:
    +48
    I remember a similar context of Moses being God. In the Hebrew scriptures God tells Moses that he, Moses, will be God to Aaron. Does that mean that Moses was God also?


    Exodus 4:14
    The anger of Yahweh was kindled against Moses, and he said, "What about Aaron, your brother, the Levite? I know that he can speak well. Also, behold, he comes forth to meet you. When he sees you, he will be glad in his heart.

    [size=-1]Exodus 4:15
    You shall speak to him, and put the words in his mouth. I will be with your mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what you shall do.

    [size=-1]Exodus 4:16
    He will be your spokesman to the people; and it will happen, that he will be to you a mouth, and you will be to him as God. [/size][/size]
     
  17. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    There are two main terms for "God" in the ancient Hebrew scriptures. There is Yahweh (Y H W H), which is the term for the Almighty, one, true, God, Jehova. And there is Elohim, which is a term for god (little g), king, prince, mighty one, judge, ruler, etc. Be careful not to get the two mixed up.
     
  18. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,125
    Ratings:
    +48
    Elshaddai - God Almighty
    Elelyon - Most High or Most High God
    Elolam - Everlasting God
    Elohim - God and sometimes Gods (plural)
    El - God

    Those scriptures are Exodus 4:14-16 )moses(

    If God's name is YHWH or Jehova, how come God tells Moses to say to the sons of Israel that "Ehyeh has sent me to you"? (Exodus 3:15)
     
  19. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +132
    Which ones? All the translations I looked up only mention God twice within those 3 verses. And those two words are LORD (verse 14) and God (verse16). Besides, none of the translations I have looked at say that Moses will be God to Aaron, but rather that Moses will be AS God to Aaron. What could that mean?

    I don't know. To tell you the truth I am not an expert on ancient Hebrew. I am only familiar with the two terms I mentioned earlier.
     
  20. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,392
    Ratings:
    +51
    What is the benefit of believing and teaching a triune God?

    There are many warnings for false teaching, witness ect.

    Since it is NOT God breathed, doesn't that make it "Precepts of man"?
     
Loading...