Christ Is King, But Business Is Business?

[FFH]

They fired him because he was too slow.

I've been fired, threatened to be fired, lost positions, etc., because of a lack of speed on my part.

Ask me if I care. One of my bosses was a former Bishop of the LDS church. Christ-like qualities were not to be found in him. Sad to say but that's just how it is. Edit: Either you speed up or lose your job. Do they want quality or speed, they have to make a choice.

The most Christ-like people are usually those in low positions who have served their time in low paying positions.

The people I work with would give their right hand if I were in need, because they also have great needs and would hope that I would return the same favor.

Luke 6: 38

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

 

[cardero]

Great opening post Sunstone !!!

Does God want us to prosper ????

Yes, but only if we use the excess wealth to build up HIS kingdom, not ours.

We must use the excess wealth given to us to do His will not ours. For instance missionary work (spreading His gospel of peace).

There are three "missions" of the LDS church

1) Perfect the Saints (Attend church, home teaching, etc.)
2) Spread the Gospel (Misionary work)
3) Redeem the Dead (Vicarious work for the dead performed in LDS tamples)

These all take lots of money.

And yet, all God drops from heaven is manna.

 

[rocka21]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 19:23
[/FONT]

Classic misuse of a scripture.

let me ask you something my friend. Did these men get to heaven?

abraham- rich
Isaac- rich
jacob- rich
david- rich
Solomon- RICHEST MAN WHO EVER LIVED?!!!

i could go on and on, but i think you get the point.

if you would like me to break down the story of the rich young ruler, just let me know.
</IMG>

 

[cardero]

Classic misuse of a scripture.

let me ask you something my friend. Did these men get to heaven?

abraham- rich
Isaac- rich
jacob- rich
david- rich
Solomon- RICHEST MAN WHO EVER LIVED?!!!

i could go on and on, but i think you get the point.

Well, did they?

 

[Majikthise]

Well, did they?

I heard Solomon asked Ghandi for a loan last week.

 

[FFH]

And yet, all God drops from heaven is manna.

He gives to us according to the measure we give to HIM.

Consistently paying tithes and giving generous offerings to the charity of your choice consistently brings blessings above and beyond our daily needs. There is no other way around it. Try it out and see how faithful God really is.

I was able to save quite a bit by following this principle. No debts and was able to stay home for over a year without getting into debt and could have stayed home indefinitely had I continued to pay my tithes and offerings but I got away from that thinking it was my own strength and wisdom that allowed me to retire so early. I had to go back to work in order to support myself because I did not continue as I had commenced by paying a full tithe and giving generous offerings to HIM.

I live extremely conservatively and have money to give, which sometimes I hoard and keep from Him which I know He hates.

Giving is the key to receiving.

Manna would be fine with me, then I wouldn't have to cook.

 

[cardero]

if you would like me to break down the story of the rich young ruler, just let me know.

Wealth is not an accurate measure for how you encourage your REALationship with God. Just ask Job.

 

[FFH]

Well, did they?

Yes, all except David, according to LDS scripture, because he had Uriah killed in battle in order to take his wife Bathsheba for his own. He lost his exaltation in the highest kingdom, where God the Father and the Son dwell, because of this, and now dwells in a kingdom just below the highest kingdom where God dwells.

There is no black and white in LDS theology. We are given rewards according to our works (deeds done while in the body) Of course repentance and faith in Christ also play a key role in determining where we will spend eternity.

Riches seem to ruin most people because they lose their focus on God and they become slaves to money and all the things it can give them.

 

[Majikthise]

Aren't rich and poor reversed in heaven?

 

[FFH]

Aren't rich and poor reversed in heaven?

Yes, If a man has misused riches or has used unrighteous means to gain riches, like taking advantage of low paying workers for his own gain or power.

The meek shall inherit the earth. This earth will become the highest kingdom of heaven where God the Father and the Son will dwell in righteousness with all those worthy of this reward.

Psalms 37: 11

But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Matthew 5: 5

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

3 Nephi 12: 5 (Book of Mormon)

And blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Doctrine and Covenants 88: 17 (LDS canonized scripture)

And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.

 

[cardero]

FFH writes: Giving is the key to receiving.

I agree to this.

FFH writes: Manna would be fine with me

I think it would be fine with these people as well.

 

[FFH]

I think it would be fine with these people as well.

God allows suffering in this life so He can judge those who were in a position to help but did nothing.

Things will definitely be reversed in Heaven.

 

[FFH]

John Huntsman, and LDS billionaire, was asked how he became wealthy and he replied "When I was first married, my wife and I agreed to give half of our income to a needy couple next door". He continued to do this for at least a year or more and continued with that philosophy of giving as much, and wherever possible, throughout his life. I wish I had the newspaper article.

He is one of the top 50 richest people on www.Forbes.com (last time I checked but that was years ago). I think there are more billionaires now and he may have slipped a few notches and is probably in the top 100 now. Kind of curious so I think I'll check again.

The point is he attributed his ability to amass large amounts of wealth by giving it away where needed.

You can't out give God because he will heap blessings upon you as long as you are faithful to Him. I mean you have to work for it and not be lazy.

 

[Bishka]

Classic misuse of a scripture.

let me ask you something my friend. Did these men get to heaven?

abraham- rich
Isaac- rich
jacob- rich
david- rich
Solomon- RICHEST MAN WHO EVER LIVED?!!!

i could go on and on, but i think you get the point.

if you would like me to break down the story of the rich young ruler, just let me know.
</IMG>

Yet Solomon and David fell from grace, did they not? I'd like to see what scriptures you use to back up that this is a Gospel of Prosperity (in the physical financial wealth way).

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Well, did they?

They all lived under Jewish law not Christs.
No one know if they are all in Heaven.

 

[McBell]

Until recently, an acquaintance of mine worked as an electrician for a deck company. That is, the company makes custom built decks for people's homes, and it is positioned in the high end of the market. A typical deck built by this company costs around $100,000, and decks costing over $300,000 are not unheard of. This company is hugely profitable.

It is also owned by a couple who believe themselves to be good Christians. Their business has been good to them. They have just built a private 2 hole golf course and club house on their estate south of town using some of the profits from their company. They are members of one of the larger evangelical churches here in town, a church that subscribes to the Gospel of Prosperity. Jesus wants you to be rich.

Shortly before Thanksgiving, they fired the electrician. Did they fire him because he was insubordinate? Nope. Did they fire him because he didn't know his job? Nope. Did they fire him because he was defrauding the company? Nope.

They fired him because he was too slow.

These owners mark up their decks enough to rake in a fortune in profits each year. By replacing the man with someone a bit faster, they will have saved on labor costs and thus "earned" a bit more profit. Jesus wants you to be rich.

Do you think the couple acted morally?

Does Jesus really want us to be as rich as possible?

Is the business imperative to make a profit compatible with the injunction of Jesus to love our neighbor as ourselves?

If you were the pastor of this couple's church, would you counsel the couple to treat their employees better, or would you consider that beyond the scope of your role as their pastor?

Is the Gospel of Prosperity truly Christian in spirit?

Seems to me that the basis for your argument, as presented, is that because they are making such a huge profit that it is morally wrong to fire someone who is not working fast enough.

 

[roli]

Y'all are making good points! Frankly, I don't know how slow or fast the electrician was compared to other electricians. What interested me about his case was that the company he worked for was hugely profitable. Profitable enough that I imagined it could afford to hire and keep an employee who was a bit slower than average, so long as the man did quality work. And I was wondering if (assuming the above is true) it would be the moral thing to keep the slow employee?

I think they should have given ample opportunity ,if in fact they actually failed to give him such grace.God is
Psa 86:15But thou, O Lord, [art] a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

 

[Sunstone]

Seems to me that the basis for your argument, as presented, is that because they are making such a huge profit that it is morally wrong to fire someone who is not working fast enough.

That's what I'm wondering. Do the owners have a moral obligation to take some of those profits and support a worker who's only fault is that he doesn't work fast enough? Or, are the owners excused from such a moral obligation because it would conflict with good business practices, which are to make the biggest possible profit?

 

[Random]

It's like this: I once got the sack from a major American corporate bank and the most appropriate attitude was oh well, that's life. In other words, s--t happens, you pick yourself up and get on with it. No moral issue for a corporation, right?

Now we have the case of a religiously professed couple who claim to be Christian and sack some guy for not meeting their standards of productivity. Because they claim a spiritual foundation for their business interest, ie. The Gospel of Prosperity, there suddenly IS a moral issue involved. Right?

Well yes and no. Yes in the sense that these people are shambolic Christians, idiotic pretenders, clueless fools who wouldn't know something truly spiritual if it bit them on the nose (so to speak). They're lousy Christians, put simply. But no in the sense that one cannot hold one business owner to be morally responsible for under-productive employees and then apply a different standard to corporations.

The couple in question had the right to release their underperforming employee just as big companies have also, and there is no moral issue involved. It's just business and no matter how distasteful one finds profiteering, it's the way of that world.

 

[rocka21]

Yet Solomon and David fell from grace, did they not? I'd like to see what scriptures you use to back up that this is a Gospel of Prosperity (in the physical financial wealth way).

so David and Solomon fell from grace because they had money? .... ok......


and yes they had wealth in the PHYSICAL FINANCIAL WAY. Do you really need me to pull scriptures?