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China emits more greenhouse gases than all the other developed countries combined

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Shaul, May 7, 2021.

  1. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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  2. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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  3. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Great point. This seems to be a lying with statistics minefield with per capita being a better measure given China's size and population.
     
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  4. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    We all know it's the farts.

    China... stop farting!
     
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  5. Ponder This

    Ponder This Well-Known Member

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    “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” - Mark Twain​

    It's a matter of perspective. If you have a million people hunting 1 shark each and 10,000 people hunting 2 sharks each, then stopping the 10,000 people from hunting sharks probably won't stop the sharks from going extinct. You would have to curb the million people hunting sharks to save the sharks.

    So if you think responsibility is by person, then the consequence of that thinking might be that the planet burns.
    If you think that some people (or even some countries) bear a greater responsibility, then you might save the planet... maybe (probably not though).

    ...an interesting dilemma...
     
  6. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    It's a simple math.
    Find what is the max tolerable CO2 level.
    Evaluate how much CO2 per year per person can be emitted at the max to keep within this level.
    Fix every countries quota based on population multiplied by CO2 per capita.
    Institute tough penalties for those who exceed.

    There. Done.
     
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  7. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Not that simple. For one, countries in cold climates NEED to heat houses somehow. There are certain environments that need fewer resources. Living closer to the sea, or to a river, or to better arable land, all benefit the individuals there, and it's easier for them to use less. So it's not simple math. There needs to be adjustment for the natural environmental factors.
     
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  8. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    China population = 1.398 billion
    U.S. population = 328.2 million

    So the U.S. has around 25% of China's population and yet produces 50% of China's CO2 emissions. Makes one wonder what ours would be if we had one billion more people.

    China is the largest emitter of carbon dioxide gas in the world, with 10.06 billion metric tons in 2018. The primary source of CO2 emissions in China is fossil fuels, notably coal burning. About 58% of the total energy derived in China comes from coal alone, and since coal is rich in carbon, burning it in China's power and industrial plants and boilers releases large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere.

    The U.S. is the second-largest emitter of CO2, with approximately 5.41 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions in 2018. The largest sources of CO2 emissions in the U.S. comes from power generation, transportation, and industry. Even though the U.S. government undertook significant efforts to reduce the reliance on coal for electricity generation, the country has become a major producer of crude oil.

    The 5 Countries That Produce the Most Carbon Dioxide (CO2)


    Edit...

    Lets break it down per person like they do the national debt...

    China...
    10.06 billion metric tons of CO2 ÷ 1.398 billion people = 7 metric tons per person.

    United States
    5.41 billion metric tons of CO2 ÷ 328.2 million people = 16.4 metric tons per person.

    So hypothetically if the U.S. had China's population....
    16.4 x 1.398 billion = 22.927 billion metric tons of CO2 per year
     
    #8 We Never Know, May 7, 2021
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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  9. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    And hotter countries need AC. The overall difference due to environment is much less significant than the level of development in society. Anyways countries can trade carbon to make for such disparities that you mention.
     
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  10. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Another factor is the economic cost to set up less pollluting technology. Richer countries can do it easier. My point is that it's complicated, and not 'simple math'.

    As to the previous point, there are places on the planet that need neither AC or heat.
     
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  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    A lot of China's production of CO2 could be said to be proxy CO2. China makes goods for the rest of the world. If they were not making those goods the market would go elsewhere and so would a lot of the CO2 production. Sooner or later we may need some sort of global CO2 tax. If a country like China will not participate their could be tariffs applied to the country's goods. They won't pay the tax, their consumer's would. A country with a lower amount of per capita CO2 production, and that is what it would need to be based upon, could possibly out compete China.
     
  12. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Richer countries also need to reduce more as they are way above safe CO2 emission levels. What is needed is a dedicated effort towards these goals with strong accountability. Then it could be done in all countries. Countries need to stop thinking of this as a goodwill hobby and think more like a job that has to be done on time come what may.
    Think of it this way. We have taken a housing loan (of fossil fuels) from earth and it has come due with interest. If it's not paid, all of us will be homeless, regardless of how good or crappy a room we are in right now. The payment must be made.
     
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  13. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I concur.
     
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  14. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    This is just another excuse for Americans to not reduce their CO2 emissions isn't it.
     
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  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    It appears to be that way.

    Where do many of the goods that China produces that require the production of CO2 go to?
     
  16. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    In our globalized economy, China and other Asian industrializing countries seem to fulfill a dual purpose for post-industrial Western economies:
    On one hand, they effectively import most emissions necessary for the production of our industrial goods.
    On the other hand, they also import most of the blame that goes along with it, and further serve as readimade targets for nationalistic hatred from Westerners.
     
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  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    And I can understand that they want to join the rest of the first world countries. A per capita carbon tax does allow them to still produce but gives them an incentive to lower emissions. And if a country won't agree to it a tariff on their products shifts the tax to the consumers, who probably should be paying the tax anyway. Along with a tax one has to have targeted spending of the money to go with it. It could be spent on technology that reduces carbon emissions and perhaps even sequestration, though I have my doubts that that will work.
     
  18. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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    Not a great point at all. China’s per capita emissions have tripled since 1990 while those of other developed countries have declined almost 20%. Even by the metric of per capita China is doing poorly.
    upload_2021-5-7_11-51-47.png
     
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  19. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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    Apples and oranges. The U.S. produces more goods and services per emission. The target should be producing more goods with few emissions. The emissions per output is more important than emissions per capita.
     
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  20. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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    By that measure more should produced in countries, such as the U.S., Japan and Germany, that produce more goods per emission.
     
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