• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Chilling the Global Warming Fears - Brookhaven National Laboratory Study

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
US Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works

Washington DC – An abundance of new peer-reviewed studies, analyses, and data error discoveries in the last several months has prompted scientists to declare that fear of catastrophic man-made global warming “bites the dust” and the scientific underpinnings for alarm may be “falling apart.” The latest study to cast doubt on climate fears finds that even a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide would not have the previously predicted dire impacts on global temperatures. This new study is not unique, as a host of recent peer-reviewed studies have cast a chill on global warming fears.

“Anthropogenic (man-made) global warming bites the dust,” declared astronomer Dr. Ian Wilson after reviewing the new study which has been accepted for publication in the Journal of Geophysical Research. Another scientist said the peer-reviewed study overturned “in one fell swoop” the climate fears promoted by the UN and former Vice President Al Gore. The study entitled “Heat Capacity, Time Constant, and Sensitivity of Earth’s Climate System,” was authored by Brookhaven National Lab scientist Stephen Schwartz. (LINK)

“Effectively, this (new study) means that the global economy will spend trillions of dollars trying to avoid a warming of ~ 1.0 K by 2100 A.D.” Dr. Wilson wrote in a note to the Senate Environment & Public Works Committee on August 19, 2007. Wilson, a former operations astronomer at the Hubble Space Telescope Institute in Baltimore MD, was referring to the trillions of dollars that would be spent under such international global warming treaties like the Kyoto Protocol.

“Previously, I have indicated that the widely accepted values for temperature increase associated with a doubling of CO2 were far too high i.e. 2 – 4.5 Kelvin. This new peer-reviewed paper claims a value of 1.1 +/- 0.5 K increase for a doubling of CO2,” he added.


The full report from the Brookhaven National Laboratory here

Call me a denier if you like as I don't look at that as a negative, but it seems to me that evidence is taking the place of the fear from the Environmental Movement and the evidence is suggesting that man made global warming is a myth.

Thoughts?
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
My link for the report didn't work, but you can hit the "LINK" in the quote for the full report. Sorry about that folks.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Nah. Most everyone is probably celebrating the holidays right now. Let's just wait and see what the rebuttals are, eh? :)




Peace,
Mystic
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Heheh. Looks like I am not the only skeptic anymore.
You never was to begin with yossarian. :D

When are we going to learn that this global warming thing is a religion and therefore only requires belief not facts?

The reason no one is posting, speaks volumes. No one wants to be confused by facts, this is a feel good thing, not an accomplish anything movement. If we were serious, we would be removing appliances out of our homes starting with those industrial hair dryers that are so popular. I don't see traffic jams getting any better or do not see an abundance of good parking spots appearing as well. :no:

It is raining on their parade so they are just going to ignore the facts. Does that surprise you?
 

yossarian22

Resident Schizophrenic
You never was to begin with yossarian. :D
Doh, forgot about you and a couple others. My bad.
When are we going to learn that this global warming thing is a religion and therefore only requires belief not facts?
The current state of environmentalism is quite sad. Look at what happened to Greenpeace.
The reason no one is posting, speaks volumes. No one wants to be confused by facts, this is a feel good thing, not an accomplish anything movement. If we were serious, we would be removing appliances out of our homes starting with those industrial hair dryers that are so popular. I don't see traffic jams getting any better or do not see an abundance of good parking spots appearing as well. :no:
Its just a bunch of noise thrown up. But it still wastes resources. The Kyoto Accords stand as the biggest waste of money in history.
Anyhow, I am still waiting for responses in 3 other threads.
It is raining on their parade so they are just going to ignore the facts. Does that surprise you?
Not really. You should check out an "environmentalist" rally. I was hardpressed to find anything related to environmentalism at all. And the leader didn't know anything about global warming (which the rally was supposed to be about).
 

capslockf9

Active Member
Millions of years earth was covered with fauna- there were no amimals. no insects. no bacteria. no fungi.

The carbon to oxygen ratio was conducive to plants and inhospitable to animals.
Fuana extracted carbon and the ratio changed.

Carbon in dead plants stay in the ground - because no fungi. bacteria, or animals existed to put it back in the sysytem.

Oxygen increased and earth became hospitable to animals. Humans are now extracting - the long ago buried carbon ( oil, coal, natural gas).

We are changing the carbon to oxygen ratio and making it less hospitable to animals.
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
Millions of years earth was covered with fauna- there were no amimals. no insects. no bacteria. no fungi.

The carbon to oxygen ratio was conducive to plants and inhospitable to animals.
Fuana extracted carbon and the ratio changed.

Carbon in dead plants stay in the ground - because no fungi. bacteria, or animals existed to put it back in the sysytem.

Oxygen increased and earth became hospitable to animals. Humans are now extracting - the long ago buried carbon ( oil, coal, natural gas).

We are changing the carbon to oxygen ratio and making it less hospitable to animals.
Any climatologist will tell you that higher carbon dioxide is the result of temperature increases, not the cause.
 

Aasimar

Atheist
I wonder were everyone is at. I was expecting to get blasted on this one.

Interesting, I'm not really all that well versed in GW though, so I don't feel I can really comment on it much. Guess we'll all find out soon enough eh? :)
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Interestingly, Schwartz is still very concerned about global warming. Schwartz explained research by saying "it means that the climate is less sensitive to [carbon dioxide] than currently thought, which gives some breathing room, but a lower sensitivity does not solve the long-term problem that would result from continued buildup of [carbon dioxide]. [wiki]

Here is a scientific discussion of Schwartz's paper. The conclusion? It's wrong:

…
His numerical values for t and C are 5+-1, and 16.7+-7 respectively (with the uncertainties at one standard deviation). It is not entirely clear what he really intends these distributions to mean (itself a sign that he is a little out of his depth perhaps), but I’ll interpret them in the only way I think reasonable in the context, as gaussian distributions for the parameters in question. He claims these values gives S equal to 0.3+-0.09, although he also writes 0.3+-0.14 elsewhere. This latter value works out at 1.1C+-0.5C for a doubling of CO2. But the quotient of two gaussians is not gaussian, or symmetric. I don’t know how he did his calculation, but it’s clearly not right.
In fact, the 16%-84% probability interval (the standard central 68% probability interval corresponding to +- 1sd of a gaussian, and the IPPC “likely”) of this quotient distribution is really 0.18-0.52K/W/m^2 (0.7-1.9C per doubling) and the 2sd limit of 2.5% to 97.5% is 0.12-1.3K/W/m^2 (0.4-4.8C per doubling). While this range still focuses mostly on lower values than most analyses support, it also reaches the upper range that I (and perhaps increasingly many others) consider credible anyway. His 68% estimate of 0.6-1.6C per doubling is wrong to start with, and doubly misleading in the way that it conceals the long tail that naturally arises from his analysis.
… He estimates a “time constant” which is supposed to characterise the response of the climate system to any perturbation. On the assumption that there is such a unique time constant, this value can apparently be estimated by some straightforward time series analysis - I haven’t checked this in any detail but the references he provides look solid enough. His estimate, based on observed 20th century temperature changes, comes out at 5y. However, he also notes that the literature shows that different analyses of models give wildly different indications of characteristic time scale, depending on what forcing is being considered - for example the response to volcanic perturbations has a dominant time scale of a couple of years, whereas the response to a steady increase in GHGs take decades to reach equilibrium. Unfortunately he does not draw the obvious conclusion from this - that there is no single time scale that completely characterises the climate system - but presses on regardless.
… In fact there is an elementary physical explanation for this: the models (and the real climate system) exhibit a range of time scales, with the atmosphere responding very rapidly, the upper ocean taking substantially longer, and the deep ocean taking much longer still. When forced with rapid variations (such as volcanoes), the time series of atmospheric response will seem rapid, but in response to a steady forcing change, the system will take a long time to reach its new equilibrium. An exponential fit to the first few years of such an experiment will look like there is a purely rapid response, before the longer response of the deep ocean comes into play. This is trivial to demonstrate with simple 2-box models (upper and lower ocean) of the climate system.
Changing Schwartz’ 5y time scale into a more representative 15y would put his results slap bang in the middle of the IPCC range, and confirm the well-known fact that the 20th century warming does not by itself provide a very tight constraint on climate sensitivity. It’s surprising that Schwartz didn’t check his results with anyone working in the field, and disappointing that the editor in charge at JGR apparently couldn’t find any competent referees to look at it.

Some things to bear in mind:
Senator Inhofe is a nut-job denialist on the remote fringe of reality, and this article is from his blog.
Schwartz is one researcher looking at one thing. He himself does not conclude that global warming does not exist or is not a concern, only that the single factor he examined warrants further study. At the time of Ihofe's press release, the study had not even been published, and thereby subject to the scrutiny of his peers.

Buddy: Global warming is the consensus conclusion of the world's climatologists, who accept that it is happening and is a crisis, with little controversy. On what scientific basis do you disagree?
 

yossarian22

Resident Schizophrenic
Buddy: Global warming is the consensus conclusion of the world's climatologists, who accept that it is happening and is a crisis, with little controversy. On what scientific basis do you disagree?
Lets begin shall we?
Why the current stance on global warming is crap.
1: There is no consensus. The paper which supported that claim was flawed. Regardless, consensus has shifted.
2: Carbon Dioxide has an extremely narrow absorption band. The sun does not output very much of that absorption band.
3: An increase in CO2 historically follows an increase in temperature, lagging behind by at least 400 years.
4. Failure to account for the 70s climate dip. Natural variation is a sword which cuts both ways.
5. The IPCC is the most politicized bureaucracy in existence. It has been criticized to many times to list. The most recent one is the recent sea level report which, besides being criticized by a leading sea level expert, had not a single sea level specialist on the team which wrote it.
And assuming the fears are correct.
1: We can't do anything about it.
2: It probably won't be bad for us.
 

wednesday

Jesus
Lets begin shall we?
Why the current stance on global warming is crap.
1: There is no consensus. The paper which supported that claim was flawed. Regardless, consensus has shifted.
2: Carbon Dioxide has an extremely narrow absorption band. The sun does not output very much of that absorption band.
3: An increase in CO2 historically follows an increase in temperature, lagging behind by at least 400 years.
4. Failure to account for the 70s climate dip. Natural variation is a sword which cuts both ways.
5. The IPCC is the most politicized bureaucracy in existence. It has been criticized to many times to list. The most recent one is the recent sea level report which, besides being criticized by a leading sea level expert, had not a single sea level specialist on the team which wrote it.
And assuming the fears are correct.
1: We can't do anything about it.
2: It probably won't be bad for us.


So the fact that Greenland is melting is not significant, or is it overblown garbage? It is rumoured that temperature fluctuation is following a pattern spanning thousands of years. However, pole reversals in the earth's magnetic field also follows a pattern over thousands of years. We are long overdue for a pole reversal. Do you think that a pole reversal would kickstart the pattern in temperature fluctuation once more?
 

Smoke

Done here.
Thoughts?
I don't think it's entirely honest to present a blog entry/press release by Mark Morano, spokesman for James Inhofe, as if it were an official publication of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works.

I do think Inhofe's opposition to environmental responsibility may have something to do with the fact that his biggest supporters are the oil and gas industries, from whom he received $972,973 between 1989 and 2006. He also received $337,313 from electric utilities during the same period.

In Washington, it's generally informative to follow the money.

For another view on Inhofe and Morano, see Daniel P. Schrag, "On a swift boat to a warmer world."
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Lets begin shall we?
Why the current stance on global warming is crap.
1: There is no consensus. The paper which supported that claim was flawed. Regardless, consensus has shifted.
yossarian: Senator Inhofe has no credibility on this issue. He's either a crackpot or a big liar-head, as far as I'm concerned. So you need to cite some other source, an unbiased scientific resource. It's about like citing AIG or worse, Kent Hovind, re: evolution. Here's what wiki says:

The majority of climate scientists agree that global warming is primarily caused by human activities such as fossil fuel burning and deforestation.[15][16][17] The conclusion that global warming is mainly caused by human activity and will continue if greenhouse gas emissions are not reduced has been endorsed by at least 30 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries. The U.S. National Academy of Sciences,[18] the American Association for the Advancement of Science,[19] and the Joint Science Academies of the major industrialized and developing nations[20] explicitly use the word "consensus" when referring to this conclusion.
That sounds pretty consensus-like to me.
 
Top