Check this out....

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

God as Creator could form His Reflection easy enough...
but that would be talking to a mirror Image and conversing with an Echo....

anything less would have some 'absence' of God

and here we are

and it was alleged by the Carpenter.....
No one is good but the Father

http://www.luxurykitchendesigner.co.../03/Clive-Christian-Architectural-Kitchen.jpg

 

[Quintessence]

Yes I don't try to argue some ones faith, in this case all i was doing was coming up with solid reasoning for my point so people know I didn't just decide to be an unbeliever. So people would leave me alone, LOL. Now I'm more open to religion and other philosophies. thats part of the reason i came here to learn about other things like Asatru and Olympianism.


but i doubt i will ever turn back to religion completely

Seeking answers to life's big questions sounds pretty religious to me...

At any rate, you really don't need to justify your belief (or lack thereof) to anyone other than yourself. Your (ir)religion is your affair, after all, right? Granted, the positions we have will have consequences when we relate with broader cultures and ecosystems, but I wager you can deal with that too, more or less.

 

[Papoon]

I had two pet rats. I'd give them both food and one would steal the other's food from his mouth! But there are also rats who have been shown to give up privileges for themselves to help other rats. I don't think animals or plants are inherently more or less moral than us. The only difference is that humans can wreak havoc on a far larger scale, and we have a lot of accompanying hubris around that.

Plankton wreaked major havoc long ago. Earth's atmosphere was primarily CO2, which no doubt suited the lifeforms of the time.
Then along came plankton and ruined everything by generating oxygen !

 

[Thief]

http://www.luxurykitchendesigner.co.../03/Clive-Christian-Architectural-Kitchen.jpg

ok....nice photo.....and your point is....?......

 

[Muffled]

So I was perusing around my google account and saw something that I had written a while ago to explain my stance to my parents, this was a couple months ago maybe around august. I have not edited anything out of it or in it.

**************

This question was posed to me in the middle of a discussion with my parents. I was trying to argue the point that God created evil, which was refuted with the possibility that maybe evil was the absence of God. Well in order to answer this question we need to lay down some definitions and other such things. let's start:

Absence: the nonexistence or lack of.

God in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.

Evil: profoundly immoral and malevolent.

Malevolent: having, showing, or arising from intense often vicious ill will, spite, or hatred


God by definition is the creator and ruler of the universe and everything within and beyond our reality. So nothing can be beyond him, nothing exists without him. So going by this it is therefore impossible for him, to be there but not be there. Then you may say to refute this, God is beyond our understanding, logic, and judgement. And he may be, but is this not intentional malevolence or evil? If God created us with free will and created the whole concept of logic and made us think this way, is he not intentionally making such a monumental decision beyond reasonable thought? I’d like to use a quote that’s used often but very effective in its intention,


“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Epicurus


*************

Re reading it, I think I did a decent job, this took me ten minutes to make, not much work went in to it. My parents sort of drove me off the road of my argument into something different, so thats why it failed, they never could combat this. I think religion is a big emotional thing for some people and it causes them to have a narrow point of view on other peoples opinions.

I believe He is both able and willing. He did not create evil but He did make it possible by creating beings with free will. The way God removes evil is by removing free will. God would prefer to have his creation choose Him but that means allowing free will.

 

[Muffled]

Because the God definition and concepts you were given by your culture can be shown to have logical problems might just mean the definitions and concepts are not quite right. That is not an argument for atheism really. I personally think the Hindu non-dual (God and creation are not-two) has the best understanding I have heard.

I believe that makes your god evil.

 

[Muffled]

Yes I don't try to argue some ones faith, in this case all i was doing was coming up with solid reasoning for my point so people know I didn't just decide to be an unbeliever. So people would leave me alone, LOL. Now I'm more open to religion and other philosophies. thats part of the reason i came here to learn about other things like Asatru and Olympianism.


but i doubt i will ever turn back to religion completely

I believe it was the apostle Paul who wrote that "they" are ever learrning but not reaching the Truth.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Meh, God didn't create evil.
He did create beings who in turn created the concept of evil, however. All God does is allow it.

Did God create Lucifer knowing he would rebel? Because if he's omniscient then that's the case.

 

[Thief]

I lean to the notion that God has a Presence in a linear fashion as we do.
He might be able more than one place in any given moment.....
but I see no effort to change the past to manipulate the present or future.

He is apparently able.....to deal with us .....as is.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

ok....nice photo.....and your point is....?......

Was just a photo of the work of a carpenter )

 

[Thana]

Did God create Lucifer knowing he would rebel? Because if he's omniscient then that's the case.

Yup.

 

[RedStorm]

lol

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Yup.

Then God created evil.

 

[Thana]

Then God created evil.

That's terribly biased reasoning. Even you have to see that.
Did God create Heroin? Or did we? And if we do something, does God still get the credit? I doubt you even know where you draw the line.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

That's terribly biased reasoning. Even you have to see that.

If you give someone a gun, fully knowing they plan to shoot someone dead with it, and they do kill someone with it then you are culpable as an accessory to the crime.

So in what way is my reasoning "biased" (which I suspect you're using as a synonym for the word 'flawed') as opposed to consistent?

Did God create Heroin?

Christians claim God created the Universe and everything in it. Heroin is a part of everything. So yes. Humans also get some of the blame but if God is the Creator then he needs to be given responsibility for the Creation.

Or did we? And if we do something, does God still get the credit? I doubt you even know where you draw the line.

There are plenty of Christians out there who claim God alone gets the credit for good actions - yet when the reverse applies it's all conveniently our fault even though God created Lucifer knowing he would become Satan.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Then God created evil.

Yeah he did humans , )

 

[RedStorm]

"Evil"

isn't even a thing

Back along time the romans thought babies weren't actually alive and human yet so if you didn't want yours just drop it wherever and it either would die or someone else would pick it up

Wasn't evil to them.... its just the morals we create within our modern society, they will always change

 

[Thana]

If you give someone a gun, fully knowing they plan to shoot someone dead with it, and they do kill someone with it then you are culpable as an accessory to the crime.

So in what way is my reasoning "biased" (which I suspect you're using as a synonym for the word 'flawed') as opposed to consistent?

Sure, you're an accessory. But that's not the same thing, You're not the murderer you're just an accessory to murder.
God isn't the creator of evil, you could say He's just the facilitator.

Christians claim God created the Universe and everything in it. Heroin is a part of everything. So yes. Humans also get some of the blame but if God is the Creator then he needs to be given responsibility for the Creation.

Heroin isn't just there. It has to be put together, to be made. It doesn't just occur in the wild, there are no heroin plants.
God created all the ingredients for nukes, But He didn't create nukes, we did. Honestly, at what point do we take responsibility for our actions or do you just prefer to blame everything on a God you don't believe in? You're a polytheist no? Who's responsible for this world as it is now, us or your Gods?

There are plenty of Christians out there who claim God alone gets the credit for good actions - yet when the reverse applies it's all conveniently our fault even though God created Lucifer knowing he would become Satan.

Because it makes them feel better, to attribute the good things with God. I don't begrudge them that.
But no, I attribute everything to God. Absolutely everything

 

[Thief]

Yup.

nope....it was a surprise