I think these hate groups want horrible things. I think that that is beside the point. My ONLY point here is that free speech got trampled on.
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Charlottesville: It's about the 1st Amendment
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
I think these hate groups want horrible things. I think that that is beside the point. My ONLY point here is that free speech got trampled on.
FWIW, Christopher Hitchens agrees with me.
IMO, that's not besides the point.
You can try to be more specific as opposed to horrible things.
They want to restrict freedom of other individuals. They want to segregate and limit choices of those that do not align to them.
Is this not true? Or are you turning a blind eye?
I think the key issue is human rights overall. This includes, but is not limited to, the rights contained in the First Amendment. I support equal rights for all since I believe it's a way of ensuring that I will be treated equally.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I would suspect that the nihlist/socialists/democrats could pose an equal threat to your life, as well as mine. naziśand klan members have a right to their views, no matter how revolting they are. The masked little pukes with their baseball bats have a right to their views, again, provided they don;t act upon them in a violent fashion.
I was a young law enforcement officer in the days of the weathermen, students for a democratic society, the real black panthers and once again the neo naziś. Our mission when they got out of line by violence or not heeding orders, was to crush them, sweep the street of the trash. They knew there would be hell to pay for their violence and property damage. Todayś cops are a different, PC breed. In my view, they actually encourage this kind of behavior in their passivity. Anyone has the right to say whatever they choose, with a few well defined limitations. However, regardless of political/religious affiliations, violence makes them pariahś, they should get their butts kicked, then be dragged off to jail.
I haven't really noticed first amendment rights being infringed. Two groups civil liberties having opposing views sometimes gives rise to violence, the violence is whats illegal. They can all talk trash all they want, but someone will get angry.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Are you allowed to say or write absolutely anything in the USA?
To some degree, my right to listen was infringed by the counter protestors. Again, I wanted to listen to the alt-right to understand how to combat them. The counter-protestors shut down the alt-right's protest so I didn't get to hear what they had to say.
You're allowed to say more than what most people think, but there are limits. I just think that these alt-right asshats are well versed in how they can take things, and they knowingly walk right up to the line - testing everyone else's patience - but they usually don't cross the line.
I think it's a mistake to underestimate them.
What they advocate for is - IMO - absolutely horrible, no argument from me. But the price of free speech is that we have to defend their right to speak this vile.
Well I'm sorry you didn't get to hear your fill of hate speech.
If they had their way by governing then many minorities like myself would lose freedom. We would lose our voice.
What is the point really of promoting one race over another? Just to brag and show off? There has to be an end game with real societal outcomes.
That outcome would be prioritizing one race over another. Tell me how that is not about enabling power and taking away freedom?
shmogie
Well-Known Member
My, my, what a smouldering plate of utter codswollop. The left has itś very own thugs, and always has. In my day as a young cop, they were called the weathermen, who set bombs and blew up people, the SDS, who did such things as roll cherry bombs in glue, then carpet tacks to set off under a police horse, hoping to kill the rider in a fall, but if not, they would just swarm him and beat the hell out of him, the black panthers who strutted around a lot at demonstrations, but except for a court take over where a a number of people were killed, they were just talk. Today the lefts soldiers are antifa, blm, and the masked anarchists who set fire and destroy property whenever the opportunity arises. Also the mobs who burn down their own communityś, then demand money to rebuild them, all in the pocket of the left, and unchained whenever there is a need for further erosion of the Republic that once was. Oops I failed to mention the gaystopo, who contribute their bit of violence to the leftist agenda. I find your complaining about the surveillance of the citizenry by the government amusing . Sorry, but your boy obama did more in this regard than the three previous administrations combined. As to the media, you are partially correct. The left views them as a glorious institution. Conservatives view them suspiciously at best. Let me give you a personal example of what a reporter with an agenda can do. Far from being neautral reporters of fact, they too have their, mostly left wing, goals. Almost 50 years ago, at a very violent demonstration, I happened to arrest the leader of the vietnam veterans against the war, the guy who took over after kerry stepped down. Of course the rich lefties ensured he had the best lawyer in NY they could find. The trial was in Ca. I spent hours and hours on the stand being questioned ( we got a conviction). The primary lefty reporter there did not print anything I didnt say, he just artfully left out paragraphs between paragraphs so that it looked as though I was a fool and the defendant was a prince. I hated them from that point on, they regularly confirmed my dislike of the, Many, many years later, as a Chief, I never trusted them. Media companies today are as money grubbing as any other private company or institution. Couple that with their liberal bias, and they have a lower trust percentage than trump or congress
It seems to me that the person arguing against free speech is you. You're the one complaining against people speaking out in criticism and saying that a free press should be reined in.
I'm not American so am a bit sketchy on your amendments to your inalienable rights but I'm an fairly sure the 1st amendment does not say that you have the right to kill people with cars
And I'm sorry you can't read posts to completion. If I had crayons and more time I'd explain this to you.
I feel like you're not reading my posts. I absolutely agree with you about the content of their ideas. They are horrible. no argument.
This is not about the quality of their ideas, this is about the cost of maintaining free speech.
Sorry, you're not reading carefully. I have said many times on this thread that we should criticize and marginalize and ridicule these asshats relentlessly.
But we CANNOT stoop to their level and stifle their speech.
And I'm certainly not suggesting any such thing as reining in the free press. I'm merely criticizing the quality of their coverage of this event.
I never excused that murderer. His actions are independent of what I'm talking about.
And I feel you're not reading mine.
We both agree to free speech is important. That's why I don't bring it up over and over. I've already agreed to that.
This isn't just about maintaining free speech.
My point to you is that the alt-right especially the neo-nazis, kkk and other white supremist hate groups would actually take away freedom if they gain more power.
Since you care about freedom then I don't see why you do not prioritize these same hate groups in your bucket of organizations that take away freedom?