Certainty. What is it? How much of it do you have?

[Bunyip]

About the only things I am certain about are the correct best sausage (bratwurst), and the correct best movie of all time (Big Trouble Little China).

As an atheist, I love to learn what I can about the world and to think about my place in it, and how it all came to be. But there is little I am certain about.

I was raised a Christian, and was taught an interpretation that took the leap of faith as essential. So there was very little apologetics, or argument about evidence - because that it was a question of faith was fundamental.

Middle English Catholicism was very clear about this when I was a child.

Many here seem to possess far greater certainty than I in their beliefs, so I am interested to explore and discuss what role certainty plays in your worldview, and why?

Why do US Christians seem more likely to argue for certainty and look for evidence than do Orthodox Jews or Bhuddists for example?

I have no intention of denigrating anybodies position, only a genuine interest on an observation of mine that certainty seems to pop up a lot more often now in discussing religion than it did when I was in primary school. Why is that?

 

[Yerda]

About the only things I am certain about are the correct best sausage (bratwurst), and the correct best movie of all time (Big Trouble Little China).

As an atheist, I love to learn what I can about the world and to think about my place in it...

Mate, how can we trust you? You're wrong about everything you believe in.

P.s. Joking. I'm going to stop this now.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm just going to point to my signature and say that on a day-to-day basis, it is actually impossible to function as a person without taking nearly everything we experience as a certainty/real or for granted.

 

[Nakosis]

The only thing I feel certain about is how little people change. I suspect there are exceptions, I read about folks who've "changed their life" but never really meet anyone like that.

It seems to me there are some core personality traits people are born with that pretty much make a person who they are.

Everything else, I lack any certainty. A person could die at any moment so I'm generally surprised that I managed to make it through another day.

I guess religion provides people with certainty. A certainty of purpose, a certainty of an afterlife. I always question that certainty so it never really worked for me.

 

[Bunyip]

I'm just going to point to my signature and say that on a day-to-day basis, it is actually impossible to function as a person without taking nearly everything we experience as a certainty/real or for granted.

How so? Can you elaborate?

I find that certainty is hardly ever relevant to my day to day life.

 

[Bunyip]

Mate, how can we trust you? You're wrong about everything you believe in.

P.s. Joking. I'm going to stop this now.

It's ok mate. I knew you were joking. Everyone knows bratwurst rule.

 

[Quintessence]

How so? Can you elaborate?

I find that certainty is hardly ever relevant to my day to day life.

Are you saying that before you get up in the morning, you have to test to make sure that you're really awake? Or that the bed is really there? That the floor you're going to stand on as you get out of bed is real? You're not certain any of that's there? You're not certain that you're hungry? That you need to eat? That the sun has risen? You're not certain about who you are? That you're a human of biological substance and thoughts? That you have (or don't have) a job you need to go to? You're not certain about the password you need to log on to RF? Or that your computer is going to work? Are you saying that you really obsessively question every single moment of every single day even if it's the most mundane and everyday thing possible? That these thoughts plague you to the point that realistically, it would be impossible for you to even function as you would never act?

Nope. In order for any organism to behave, it takes for granted the surety of its observations. It can't live any other way. Any organism that is constantly questioning whether or not the ground is really there, if it really needs to eat or drink, if it really needs to breathe, or if that car is really headed for it is a dead one.

 

[Thief]

I'm just going to point to my signature and say that on a day-to-day basis, it is actually impossible to function as a person without taking nearly everything we experience as a certainty/real or for granted.

on the contrary....most people act as they do....on faith.
they believe they are doing the right thing at the right time.....
they need no evidence.
they are sure.

or do you equate ...'for granted'....
as a statement of faith.

 

[Thief]

About the only things I am certain about are the correct best sausage (bratwurst), and the correct best movie of all time (Big Trouble Little China).

As an atheist, I love to learn what I can about the world and to think about my place in it, and how it all came to be. But there is little I am certain about.

I was raised a Christian, and was taught an interpretation that took the leap of faith as essential. So there was very little apologetics, or argument about evidence - because that it was a question of faith was fundamental.

Middle English Catholicism was very clear about this when I was a child.

Many here seem to possess far greater certainty than I in their beliefs, so I am interested to explore and discuss what role certainty plays in your worldview, and why?

Why do US Christians seem more likely to argue for certainty and look for evidence than do Orthodox Jews or Bhuddists for example?

I have no intention of denigrating anybodies position, only a genuine interest on an observation of mine that certainty seems to pop up a lot more often now in discussing religion than it did when I was in primary school. Why is that?

Turn to science.
In science you lean to cause and effect.
experiment relies on this relationship.

of course science will take you to the 'point' of singularity and stall there.
no number system without a secondary point.
no petri dish for the experiment.
no photo, no fingerprint....

But you can still believe in cause and effect.
Science will say...nothing moves without 'something' to move it.

Choose.
Spirit first?....or substance?
and you can be sure.....dead things do not beget the living.

 

[Bunyip]

Are you saying that before you get up in the morning, you have to test to make sure that you're really awake? Or that the bed is really there? That the floor you're going to stand on as you get out of bed is real?

Thanks for responding, but not only am I not saying any of those things - I really can not see how you read that into what I said I'm sorry. [Quote] You're not certain any of that's there? You're not certain that you're hungry? That you need to eat? That the sun has risen? You're not certain about who you are? That you're a human of biological substance and thoughts? That you have (or don't have) a job you need to go to? You're not certain about the password you need to log on to RF? Or that your computer is going to work? [/QUOTE] Correct. Pretty sure, but not certain.

Are you saying that you really obsessively question every single moment of every single day even if it's the most mundane and everyday thing possible?

No, I am not saying that.

That these thoughts plague you to the point that realistically, it would be impossible for you to even function as you would never act?

No, I'm not saying that either - sorry, but I don't see how you are reading that into what I said at all.

Nope. In order for any organism to behave, it takes for granted the surety of its observations.

What makes you think that? That is what I was asking you to explain.

It can't live any other way.

Why not?

Any organism that is constantly questioning whether or not the ground is really there, if it really needs to eat or drink, if it really needs to breathe, or if that car is really headed for is a dead one.

Why would it need to do that? How did you get from the question of certainty to the idea that being uncertain means that it would be constantly questioning everything? Couldn't it just accept that nothing is certain and get on with it's life?

To clarify; How does your conclusion follow from your premis? What is the connection?

Why would uncertainty mean that an organism needs to keep asking itself the big philosophical questions?

For the sake of clarity, if you are kind enough to respond to this comment - could I ask that you not phrase your response or argument in the form; 'So you are saying.....'? I think it is counter productive in that I don't think the inferences you are ascribing to what I said will actually reflect things I have said and thus it can only result in further misunderstanding.

 

[Bunyip]

Turn to science.
In science you lean to cause and effect.
experiment relies on this relationship.

of course science will take you to the 'point' of singularity and stall there.
no number system without a secondary point.
no petri dish for the experiment.
no photo, no fingerprint....

But you can still believe in cause and effect.
Science will say...nothing moves without 'something' to move it.

Choose.
Spirit first?....or substance?
and you can be sure.....dead things do not beget the living.

Why do you troll all of the different threads with the same comment? What is the point?

 

[Deidre]

The most that we can be certain about, are our perceptions. Our perceptions give us a sense of certainty. Whether they are valid or not, that's yet to be tested. I might perceive that my neighbor is going to harm me, and I feel very strongly about it. Very certain about it. But, my neighbor never harms me, turns out. So, I might be wrong in my perception of that certainty. But, I sure felt certain of it ...at the time. (this is an example, I'm not afraid of my neighbor lol)

 

[Quintessence]

What makes you think that? That is what I was asking you to explain.

Common bloody sense, which I gave copious examples of my previous response. The alternative to certainty is uncertainty; the alternative of taking something as a given or for granted is to constantly question. Any organism that exhibits perpetual uncertainty could not possibly survive in the apparent world. It would be stuck in questioning mode, and thus be incapable of decision-making or adequate response to its environment, which pretty much means severe dysfunction if not death. Any and all worldviews must make a large number of base assumptions that are taken for granted, or regarded as certainties or unquestionably real. You know... like the fact that you're breathing.

 

[Thief]

Why do you troll all of the different threads with the same comment? What is the point?

It's a line of thought that can be applied to so many things.

I grew up thinking this way.
I often wonder the lack of it in others.

I always thought the scheme of things is obvious.

That I post the line as often as I do.....
I can't help but wonder if my fellow man isn't blind.

 

[Bunyip]

Common bloody sense, which I gave copious examples of my previous response.

But I am not certain of any of those examples you gave.

The alternative to certainty is uncertainty;

Yes, I'm with you so far.

the alternative of taking something as a given or for granted is to constantly question.

Surely you can not be suggesting that is a true dichotomy? Tuere would be many other alternatives - like just accepting that uncertainty is a natural condition for example.

Any organism that exhibits perpetual uncertainty could not possibly survive in the apparent world. It would be stuck in questioning mode, and thus be incapable of decision-making or adequate response to its environment, which pretty much means severe dysfunction if not death.

Only if you assume that certainty and endless questioning are a true dichotomy - but why would you do that? They are clearly not a true dichotomy.

Any and all worldviews must make a large number of base assumptions that are taken for granted, or regarded as certainties or unquestionably real. You know... like the fact that you're breathing.

Why? Why not just accept that nothing is certain (as I do) and get on with their lives? I can stilll question and consider, and questioning and considering would remain a positive survival trait.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that it naturally follows that uncertainty mean that one must be constantly questioning - and therefore could not survive.
The reality is that questioning our assumptions is a positive survival trait - like assuming there was no bear on the path because there was not one there yesterday would cost lives rather than save them.

Example 1; I drive my child to the bus every morning, I am not certain the bus will arrive (sometimes it doesn't), but it still makes sense to drive him to the bus stop - and I waste no time questioning the universe about whether it will arrive or not. It usually does.

Example 2; I am uncertain as to the number and distribution of parrot species in my region. It is an uncertainty I rarely question - and which has no real impact on my life.

Example 3; I am uncertain that my job is secure, so I tend to work harder than I need to. Which I think gives a positive outcome in ensuring my value at work. I rarely question why I am uncertain in that regard - as it tends to be how most people feel.

 

[Bunyip]

It's a line of thought that can be applied to so many things.

Yes, everything apparently. Like a broken record.

I grew up thinking this way.
I often wonder the lack of it in others.

I always thought the scheme of things is obvious.

That I post the line as often as I do.....
I can't help but wonder if my fellow man isn't blind.

 

[Curious George]

About the only things I am certain about are the correct best sausage (bratwurst), and the correct best movie of all time (Big Trouble Little China).

As an atheist, I love to learn what I can about the world and to think about my place in it, and how it all came to be. But there is little I am certain about.

I was raised a Christian, and was taught an interpretation that took the leap of faith as essential. So there was very little apologetics, or argument about evidence - because that it was a question of faith was fundamental.

Middle English Catholicism was very clear about this when I was a child.

Many here seem to possess far greater certainty than I in their beliefs, so I am interested to explore and discuss what role certainty plays in your worldview, and why?

Why do US Christians seem more likely to argue for certainty and look for evidence than do Orthodox Jews or Bhuddists for example?

I have no intention of denigrating anybodies position, only a genuine interest on an observation of mine that certainty seems to pop up a lot more often now in discussing religion than it did when I was in primary school. Why is that?

I am fairly certain "it was the storms, the three storms."

 

[Thief]

Yes, everything apparently. Like a broken record.

so let it repeat until it sinks in.
let it be your mantra....

 

[Bunyip]

so let it repeat until it sinks in.
let it be your mantra....

If I wanted a parrot, I would buy one.

 

[Thief]

If I wanted a parrot, I would buy one.

your denials are noted in equal numbers.