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Celibacy and the priesthood

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Celibacy and the priesthood


Editorial
http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi/tablet-01094




BECAUSE OF THE chronic shortage of vocations to the priesthood, even some flourishing Catholic parishes in Britain are likely to be told in the future that they must manage henceforth without a priest. They may have to become outposts of neighbouring parishes. They may have to confine their eucharistic worship to the distribution of Communion already consecrated. They may continue to exist as lay-led communities, with their sacramental life maintained by itinerant Mass-sayers with six or more services to conduct during the course of a weekend. Or their church may simply close.

Yet those same parishes may have suitable candidates for the role of priest whose only impediment is that they are married. Some may already be ordained as permanent deacons. Some may indeed already be priests, but had reverted to lay status on marrying many years before. It would be contrary to common sense for the Church to insist that clerical celibacy was such a priority that whole communities should be deprived of the Sacraments, as well as the benefits of a resident priest, as the price of it. The presence among the Catholic priests in England and Wales of married former Anglican clergy is now an established, and enriching, feature of the life of the Church. It has disproved the argument that many ordinary laity would be scandalised to meet a priest with a wife. They have taken it in their stride.

The current Synod of Bishops in Rome has heard the case for allowing a married clergy, but it has clearly been met with considerable resistance in some quarters. But just as there was a pressing pastoral need to make an exception in the case of former Anglicans who converted, so the situation now developing may be regarded as no less serious and urgent. This is true not only of nations in the West, such as Britain, but in the developing world, and the synod has heard moving testimony from bishops such as Luis Tagle of Imus in the Philippines describing how priests there might have to say as many as nine Masses on one Sunday, such is the shortage of priests.

Celibacy is not compulsory in most Eastern-rite Churches in full communion with Rome. This suggests that the suspension of celibacy ought to be left to the discretion of local Bishops’ Conferences. There are important factors to be taken into consideration on both sides. Celibacy, when present as a genuine vocation and not just the price to be paid for ordination to priesthood, can make a man or woman open to others in a unique and striking way. That charism must not be lost. Nor should celibacy be called into question because of child abuse, most of which happens in families anyway. And nor should any suspension of the universal celibacy requirement be introduced out of dislike of initiatives in lay ministry in local parishes.
The question is whether the Holy Spirit is calling forth new responses to the challenges of the times, requiring not one pattern of ordained ministry by a full-time professional resident celibate, but various models of which the traditional is but one – albeit, for some while to come, the normative version. The answer may well be “Yes”, and it would be deeply worrying for the synod to assume it must be “No”.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
When one only has to look at the Eastern Catholic churches to see married, non-celibate priests, and yet their church is still in full communion with Rome, the Roman Catholic church should be asking: "why do we do this?"; obviously in this case, it appears to be more of a cultural, or a tradition, than a divine item. Why else would it be that Roman Catholics are not allowed priests to marry (but, it's worth noting that if an Anglican priest becomes a Catholic priest, and he's married ahead of his conversion to Catholicism, then he may still be married and will not be celibate), yet Eastern Catholics have no such thing, how valid is it? Can it really be seen as a divine decree? Otherwise, what use is it?
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
It would be very interesting if they lifted the discipline of celibacy...

This suggests that the suspension of celibacy ought to be left to the discretion of local Bishops’ Conferences.
I think I agree with this...
 

Runlikethewind

Monk in Training
I am all for married diocesan priests, although one side effect of this would be that Parishes would be come more expensive to run since the priests salary would necessarily have to go up so they could better support their family. But that is just one little thing the point being that all the consequences should be weighed before a decision is made.

I also think that religious such as monks and nuns and other religious orders, (Dominicans, Franciscans etc) should continue to maintain a strictly celibate role so that charism will not disappear from the Church altogether. And I speak from personal experience having chosen to pursue life as a celibate Benedictine monk.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
*** Mod Post ***

Several messages have been deleted from the thread. Please keep the following things in mind:

- this is the Catholic Discuss Individual Religions (DIR) forum. Non-Catholic members are limited to posting respectful questions. If you would like to discuss a topic you read about in the DIR forums, you are welcome to start your own thread in the open forum areas.

- DIR forums are for discussion, not debate. If Catholic members would like to debate this issue or others that arise in the DIR forum from a purely Catholic perspective, I suggest starting a thread in the Same Faith Debates forum.

Thanks,

9-10ths_Penguin
Mod
 

rinojg

New Member
I am all for married diocesan priests, although one side effect of this would be that Parishes would be come more expensive to run since the priests salary would necessarily have to go up so they could better support their family. But that is just one little thing the point being that all the consequences should be weighed before a decision is made.

I also think that religious such as monks and nuns and other religious orders, (Dominicans, Franciscans etc) should continue to maintain a strictly celibate role so that charism will not disappear from the Church altogether. And I speak from personal experience having chosen to pursue life as a celibate Benedictine monk.

This would seem to be the answer, I hope our leaders make the changes needed before it's too late.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I was raised Catholic, was an alter server, and went to Catholic schools as a kid. I had close relationships with several priests and they were excellent men, teachers, and "ministers of God". However, I do believe that the Catholic priesthood suffers from the mandatory celibacy rule. I believe that many priests would remain celibate if given the choice, buy many others would become great priests if only they were allowed to be fathers and husbands as well. And their experience as such would only add to the quality of experience and priestly advice that the church can offer people.
 

Scutum Fidei

New Member
I have no doubt that the situation of the Church and of the secular world would be far worse if the heroic virtue of the celibate clergy did not exist. One only has to look around one to see the consequences of a sex-crazed society -- obscenity, pornography, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, etc. As the natural respect for celibacy has declined, sins, and perversions have skyrocketed. Yet people deep down know that celibacy is right, as they are captivated by the idea (as they should be).

The spiritual and temporal benefits that are at the priests advantage in the life of celibacy far out weigh any material gains since the graces and heavenly gifts of God are far above measure for any earthly things to even begin to compare with them. Thus it seems evident that celibacy is far more adequate to the priesthood than marriage. The world we can say is indebted to the Church on account of her firm stance on clerical celibacy since it is by means of this vow of perpetual chastity that priests have been able to dedicate their lives tirelessly to the work of God.

It is true that the there is on a global scale a shortage of priests, but this is by no means the first time in history that the Church has had this problem. In every age the Church has always affirmed that it is better to have fewer priests than to have plenty of bad priests. St. Thomas Aquinas states that “God never abandons His Church that apt ministers are not to be found sufficient for the needs of the people. And although it were impossible to find as many ministers as there are now, it is better to have few good ministers than many bad ones.” – Summa Theologica, Supplement, Part III, Q. 36. Art. 4
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It is true that the there is on a global scale a shortage of priests, but this is by no means the first time in history that the Church has had this problem. In every age the Church has always affirmed that it is better to have fewer priests than to have plenty of bad priests.
A couple quick questions from a non-Catholic:

- are you trying to say that non-celibate priests would be bad priests? I was under the impression that the Church considered sexuality to be a positive thing when it occurs in what the Church considers to be the proper way (within marriage, rooted in love, open to procreation, etc.).

- seeing how Eastern Rite priests can be married, what's the rationale for mandatory celibacy in Roman Rite priests?
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
- are you trying to say that non-celibate priests would be bad priests? I was under the impression that the Church considered sexuality to be a positive thing when it occurs in what the Church considers to be the proper way (within marriage, rooted in love, open to procreation, etc.).

- seeing how Eastern Rite priests can be married, what's the rationale for mandatory celibacy in Roman Rite priests?
Beat me to it 9-10ths ;) Just the questions I was going to ask...

Are you suggesting that all of the married Eastern Catholic priests are bad priests? What about those that have converted from the Baptist churches or Anglicanism?
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
I've yet to understand that, actually.
Eastern Rite Catholic priests can be married. Why not Latin rite?
It boggles the mind.. surely this is unfair?
 

Runlikethewind

Monk in Training
I don't think that Scutum Fidei is saying that married priests would be bad priests, although I cannot speak for him. I see his point as being that we should not use the shortage of priests as the motivating factor for changing our standards for ordination. The question should not be "will dropping celibacy get us more priests?", the question should be "will dropping celibacy be a good thing for the Church, is it the right thing to do?". Our primary motivation in setting standards for ordination should be quality and not quantity.

Anyway here is another solution that I have heard floating around. The Church could make celibacy temporary rather than optional or mandatory. Send a guy to seminary and have him serve as an active celibate minister for 10-20 years or something and then they can have the option of going into an 'inactive' or 'reserve' status. Now these inactive priests could pursue other interests or careers, they could get married and raise a family, and their only obligation to the Church would be to help out in parishes on weekends, hospital or prison chaplaincy, and other such 'part-time' ministry. That way they could still help out the priest shortage by doing small tasks, taking the burden off the 'active' priests, while still having the time and freedom to raise a family or pursue other interests. Now there would be a lot of details to work out in such a plan, but it is something to consider.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
RLW is right...I know catholics and non-catholics alike that like to use the current situation (shortage and abuse scandal) as a reason to allow priest to marry. I've done some extensive reading in trying to understand the pros and cons of both and have slightly shifted to supporting celibacy a bit more. There are strong arguments that claim celibacy is a superior life to that of marriage (not that celibacy is better for everyone, but objectively it is better). That is, if one is living a life with a mission.

Granted, there is a time and surrounding circumstances where married priest is better. It's harder to make that argument nowadays as there is enough males to reproduce, higher birth rate, and a number of other reasons.

Don't be surprised that instead of allowing the west to be married, the East will become more celibate.
 
Vocations are a result of faith. The more orthodox the diocese, the more vocations to the priesthood. Some dioceses in the U.S. are flourishing, because they are more orthodox in their beliefs and practices. Lex orandi, lex credendi. As we pray, so shall we believe.

That being said, Africa and Asia are flourising now with many vocations. Maybe we'll end up sending a bunch of 'em here. I know some are already here and doing well...if you can understand them. Even so, all the Sacraments by these fine fellows is valid. :)
 
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