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Caution: Homosexuality Dangerous to Health

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Wleeper, Aug 22, 2004.

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  1. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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  2. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    Straw men are so easy to knock down aren't they?

    apples and oranges?naturally we are to reproduce, it's how we survive, it is blatently ignorant for a religion or athiest to deny such.now i ask you, if your gay gene and evolution theories were true, how could they co-exist?would you mind calling it our own population control?i need a laugh.


    Let me know if i peg your angel accurately:if you can't explain it, it can't be true and if it can be explained away(emptily or logically, the bigger the words the better) that that which someone else holds through faith, i in my own mind, win..

    that's it right?

    --$
     
  3. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    I do not lie. Do you want for me to post the research article?

    Evolutionary theory and gay genes can easily co-exist. Below I will show you some of the contradictions of the bible:

    Should we kill?
    Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
    Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)

    Ex 20:5 "...for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..." (see also Ex 34:14, Deut 4:24, Josh 24:19, and Nah 1:2)
    Gal 5:19-20 "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are...jealousy..." (See also 2 Cor 12:20)

    Should we tell lies?
    Ex. 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.(Prov. 12:22; Rev. 21:8)
    1 Kings 22:23 The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. (II Thess. 2:11; Josh. 2:4-6 with James 2:25)

    Should we steal?
    Ex. 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. (Lev. 19:13)
    Ex. 3:22. And ye shall spoil the Egyptians. (Ex. 12:35-36; Luke 19:29-33)

    Shall we keep the Sabbath?
    Ex. 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (Ex. 31:15; Num. 15:32,36)
    Is. 1:13 The new moons and the Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity. (John 5:16; Matt. 12:1-5)

    Shall we make Graven images?
    Ex. 20:4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven...earth...water. (Lev. 26:1)
    EX. 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.

    Are we "saved" through works?
    Eph. 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith...not of works. (Rom. 3:20, 28; Gal. 2:16)
    James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.(Matt. 19:16-21)

    Should good works be seen?
    Matt. 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works. (I Peter 2:12)
    Matt. 6:1-4 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them...that thine alms may be in secret. (Matt. 23:5)

    Should we own slaves?
    Lev. 25:45-46 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy...and they shall be your posession...they shall be your bondmen forever. (Gen. 9:25; Ex. 21:2,7; Joel 3:8; Luke 12:47; Col. 3:22)
    Is. 58:6 Undo the heavy burdens...break every yoke. (Matt. 23:10)

    Does God change his mind?
    Mal. 3:6. For I am the Lord; I change not. Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent. (Ezek. 24:14; James 1:17)
    Ex. 32:14. And the Lord repented of the evil which he had thought to do unto his people. (Gen. 6:6; Jonah 3:10; Sam. 2:30-31; II Kings 20:1-6; Num. 16:20-35)

    Are we punished for our parent's sins?
    Ex. 20:5 For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations. (Ex. 34:7)
    Ezek. 18:20 The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.

    Is God good or evil?
    Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
    Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)

    Is God Peaceable?
    John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
    Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)

    Was Jesus trustworthy?
    John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
    John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

    Shall we call people names?
    Matt. 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
    Matt. 23:17 (Jesus said) Ye fools and blind.

    Has anyone seen God?
    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at anytime. (Ex 33:20; Tim. 6:16; John 6:46; I John 4:12)
    Gen. 32:30 For I have seen god face to face. (Ex. 33:11, 23; Is. 6:1; Job 42:5)

    How many gods are there?
    Deut. 6:4 The Lord or God is one Lord.
    Gen. 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image.(Gen. 3:22; I John 5:7)

    Are we all sinners?
    Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned. (Rom. 3:10; Psa.14;3)
    Job 1:1 There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright. (Gen. 7:1; Luke 1:5-6)

    When was Jesus crucified?
    Mark 15:22 and it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
    John 19:14-15 And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out...crucify him!"

    "Then he (Jesus) strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ." Matthew 16:20

    How can these exist within the same infallible book?

    a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

    e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

    f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

    g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

    i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
     
  4. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    "I do not lie. Do you want for me to post the research article?"

    you never lie?you've never lied?you will never lie again?unless these three are true, you've only proven yourself a liar already.i've read the article, i've stated that i believe there is no 'gay gene', and i've researched carbon dating, i believe them equally.make of that what you will.

    the rest of your post was of course extensive, congrats.if i respond, it will of course be in time, for i work and live.i wonder if you think it's original?or if it's never been dealt with before?

    take care
    shawn

    --$
     
  5. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    I do not lie knowingly, would have been, perhaps, a better statement, on my part.

    It is your choice to believe what you want, regardless of evidence to the contrary.

    I don't find it extensive. I've written real extensive ones before. I don't expect you to respond, as theres not much to refute, seeing as how it's true. I as well, live, although I do not work yet, I'm on vacation. I do not think it original, for I know that others have said the same things. It has, however, never been dealt with.
     
  6. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    i dont get it. little nipper makes all these statements saying that homosexuality is the same lines as child fornification and so on. what is your basis? the bible? and this is good reason to think that this affects health?

    i also call that a cafeteria catholic/christian. you pick and chose what you want to believe and ignore the rest. in leviticus theres a passage referring to how homosexuality is bad for jewish priests (leviticus is a law book for jewish priests). well... it says on the next page that you shall not trim your beard.
    you must have a pretty long beard.

    no matter how much christians justify saying, "oh the dietery laws are done away with" its still cafeteria. who done away with them? God?

    fine, you believe that homosexuality is wrong. thats fine, thanks for sharing. but you are insanely closeminded and you fail to see the truth. God is love. monagamous relationshiops are good. gay people have monogamous relationshiops. but thats my thinking. and im entitled to it.
     
  7. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    Remember that anything anyone tells you is true, most certainly is.

    on the surface i can pick off much of your statements, since you think they've all never been dealt with, i'll be brief.

    murder and killing are different.basic enough for you?

    did it say anywhere that spirits cannot be jealous?no?

    nowhere does that say we should lie, perhaps for whatever reason we may goad god into making us lie, we still shouldn't choose to lie scripturally by any stretch of the imagination.

    the luke reference doesn't in anyway refer to stealing, what was the point?the single bible(not my preferred translation or any translation tools) i have reads ex3:22"but each woman shall ask of her neighbor, and of her who sojourns in her house, jewelry of silver and of gold, and clothing, and you shall put them on your sons and on your daughters; thus you shall despoil the Egyptians"

    ex12:35-36
    "The people of Israel had also done as Moses told them, for they had asked of the Egyptians jewelry of silver and of gold, and clothing; and the LORD had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have what they asked. Thus they despoiled the Egyptians. "

    wow they asked for it?where is your fathomed commanded stealing contradiction?

    time presses so i will skip to the more obvious for now, excuse me.

    changing your mind is not 'changing', for under that stick man argument you might as well say he's changed since he is now older.he does change his mind, his personhood and what he stands for does not change.rather simple actually unless you're looking to make contradictions.

    Gen.1:26 is often used to show YAHushua's hand in Creation. It reads, "And Elohim said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." They say the Father is talking to the Son in this verse based on the pronouns used. Notice, however, that verse 27 says, "So Elohim created man in His own image, . . ." Why isn't the phrase "in their own image" used? Again, in Gen.11:7,8, "us" is used and yet YAHWEH alone scattered them abroad. According to Job 38:4-7, "the sons of Elohim shouted for joy" when YAHWEH created the earth. This doubtless refers to other spiritual beings who were also present at the creation of man. YAHWEH could be speaking to them, in Gen.1:26, using the plural of majesty. An example of this is found in Ezr. 4:18; "The letter which ye sent unto us hath been plainly read before me." In this case, a letter was written strictly to King Artaxerxes and no one else (vs. 11). Yet the King speaks as though it was written to others as well. Another example would be the Queen of England saying, "We, the Queen of England, . . ." It can also be understood in the sense of someone saying, "Let us drive to the lake for a picnic," and yet, only the speaker does the driving. To believe YAHWEH is talking to YAHushua is an assumption. It is reading into the text something that it does not necessarily say.


    JOB1:1There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God, and turned away from evil.

    gen7:1
    "...I have seen that you are righteous ..."

    luke1:6
    "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. "

    righteous/blamelss and upright are very different from having never sinned, whichever translation you got or twisted your reference from is very faulty(although i believe you mistranslate it yourself or get it from an athiest site), for he(job) admits to having sinned when he was younger later in the book

    i suggest you marry first.

    i do suppose you have no clue as to how sins have been payed for.

    HF athie



    --$
     
  8. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    Listen to what you are saying. Straight people watch porno too... Yes, they do and it is WRONG for everyone. When you were a small child I cannot imagine that you wanted to have sex with other boys or men. It just isn't so.
    Little boys think girls are "Yuckey!" It is wonderful that you have not had any sex and are saving yourself for the one you marry. I hope that you both learn about sex together instead of one leading the other. I do feel that marriage is ONLY for beginning a family. I also know I can have deep affection for someone of the same sex and that doesn't mean that I need to have sex with that individual in order to reach some higher plane. This has been the BIGGEST damage the homosexual movement has caused. It breakdowns REAL LOVE and replaces it with LUST. I have several very close friends that I would die for-----though sometimes it is harder to live for someone... I will not engage in sex with those persons. I am married and I have a family. I know of NO homosexual relationship that produced a single child through THAT union. Homosexuals MUST always go outside their "relationship" to be more then a couple. I didn't marry until I was 31 and I didn't share sex with anyone until my wedding night. If I can do it, I can only imagine that it is possible for everyone.
     
  9. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Killing -

    To put to death.
    To deprive of life.

    Murder - the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing another under circumstances defined by statute (as with premeditation); especially : such a crime committed purposely, knowingly, and recklessly with extreme indifference to human life or during the course of a serious felony

    Murder is a type of killing. Basic enough for you?

    Jealosy is a deed of the flesh then, and since God is jealous, he is of the flesh.

    If I change my mind, I have chosen a different choice. I have changed.

    Then why was he said to be perfect?

    Contact does not nescessarily mean sexual contact. Any sort of contact is not allowed. You are not allowed to touch a women during menstruation, as it is specifically written in the bible. If you follow the rules of the bible, as you say you do, then you cannot do this.

    Not sure what this means, but perhaps you are suggesting that I am an atheist? If so you are wrong. I believe in Gods. An unknown number of them in fact. I believe they are the reincarnated spirits of those who have passed on to higher realms. I believe that they will die and reincarnate again, eventually reaching the final realm, the Source. Both living and unliving, we all are part of it.
     
  10. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    you don't see the glaring difference in your definitions of kill and murder?a square is a rectangle, yet a rectangle is not necessarily a square.use that tool....

    well since we are in the flesh, and we see/move/think/speak/live.then he too must be in the flesh for all these reasons!!right!!!knocking stick men over proves nothing, try being substantial....

    "If I change my mind, I have chosen a different choice. I have changed."

    well then, i have been around longer now than i was an hour ago, i have changed...

    it didn't say job was perfect, and even if the meanings are synonyms, between righteous/perfect.claiming one to be perfect now does by no means mean they were always perfect, you might as well cite examples from scripture that say people will be made perfect in the future.~paraphrase="OMG how can they be perfect in the future if they're not perfect now!,it's all lies"~after all this is the exact same type of stickman argument as that...

    then it is her responsibility and the sin would be hers to burden, i don't often find myself touching women i'm not romantically involved with.the whole ot/nt rules/laws debate is something that i don't currently have time for but i suggest you research it if you're going to keep trying to make them contradict eachother...



    i liked the matrix too.



    --$
     
  11. dolly

    dolly Member

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    If there is a gay gene, it's sex linked.

    There is evidence that it is genetic. Homosexuals have different brain structures than heterosexuals (in many of the parts which affect one's sexual drive (hypothalamus, etc) ). Sexuality can be traced on the mother's side of the family. Structures of finger prints are significantly different in homosexuals than heterosexuals. Twins are significantly more likely to get it the closer they are related. There are others.

    There was also a very important study which was tested on the animals. It focused on the circumstances in the womb while the child was in the early stages of development. Basically, there was a direct relationship with the time the baby started to develop sexually (early, on time, or late) and their sexuality.

    Also, if it was a choice, homosexuals would be able to change. There is only one study which says they can, and it's not a credible source (we already discussed it here http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1377 ).

    http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/boardwalk/7151/biobasis.html
    http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Genetic basis for homosexuality
    http://religioustolerance.org/hom_caus1.htm


    You've never studied heredity, have you. It depends on which chromosome it is located, the penetrance of the gene, the type of dominance, if and how it is triggered, etc.

    You can choose to participate in homosexual activities, but you don't choose to be your sexuality.

    So did I, thank you. You clearly need to study biology more. Homosexuality is also very useful when it comes to keeping a species alive because they help regulate the species. this is why the percentage of homosexuality is relative the population. If there are too few or too many people, there is a higher percentage (homosexuals, though they can't reproduce, increase the probability of survival in pack animal species).





    Obviously, but being promiscuous doesn't lead to homosexuality. Can you give me a credible study which has found a link between those two?

    Just because you have such an opinion doesn't mean you have to open your mouth and shout it to everyone. You are whining about the Bible, and why it's wrong, but if anyone is acting un-Christian, it's you.

    I find what you say incredibly offensive. You can take the stance of "homosexuality is detrimental to society" without acting like a jerk. The only things you are doing are discrediting yourself and making us have a very, very low opinion of you.

    I am bisexual. I have NEVER had sex with anyone in my life, I do not intend to have sex until I'm in married or soon to be, and I most definitely would NOT have sex with anything.

    He was probably never gay to begin with, or he was trained to except the heterosexual lifestyle. Just because they are trained to be in a het relationship, doesn't mean they are het. Look at the link I gave above to a previous discussion of "Can gay's change."

    And you are on the boat with them. You most certainly are not a good Christian.

    Well, that's your opinion. Many people disagree.

    There are different types of love. Do you love your wife the same way that you love a close friend or a child? Obviously not. It's the same thing for them.
     
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  12. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    "regulate the species."

    cool, thanks.

    yes i've studied genetics,biology,and other anatomy related sciences.but thanks for assuming(only because it pleases you) that one couldn't possibly do such and disagree with you.

    --$
     
  13. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    "Listen to what you are saying. Straight people watch porno too... Yes, they do and it is WRONG for everyone. When you were a small child I cannot imagine that you wanted to have sex with other boys or men. It just isn't so."

    yes, porno, lust, fornification is wrong. but homo and hetersexuality isnt. they are just sexualities. part of the body, natural.

    hello, during puberty thats when our sexuality blossoms. i was a preteen and still waiting for that attraction to girls to come to me. when i was 13, gradually that attraction appeared, not towards women, but to men. i had a crush on a classmate and it was wierd. oh well i said to my myself, and life went on.

    i have morals, im a devout hindu. even though i think im gay, im open to any possibility of anything. rite now thats not my focus. my focus is to get an education and excell in my studies. when im in my twenties, maybe ill start dating. and then i can have sex after i get married. no big deal.

    as a kid i had no idea. though i sometimes wished i was a girl. i wanted to be a girl and dance bharathanatyam (south indian classical dance) and i acted very feminine. i didnt do much *boy* activities.

    thats all i can say. homosexuality is not dangerous to health. it has just as many risks as heterosexuality does. im not some dereanged phycho. im perfectly healthy, mind body and spirit.



    "Little boys think girls are "Yuckey!" It is wonderful that you have not had any sex and are saving yourself for the one you marry. I hope that you both learn about sex together instead of one leading the other. I do feel that marriage is ONLY for beginning a family. I also know I can have deep affection for someone of the same sex and that doesn't mean that I need to have sex with that individual in order to reach some higher plane. This has been the BIGGEST damage the homosexual movement has caused. It breakdowns REAL LOVE and replaces it with LUST. I have several very close friends that I would die for-----though sometimes it is harder to live for someone... I will not engage in sex with those persons. I am married and I have a family. I know of NO homosexual relationship that produced a single child through THAT union. Homosexuals MUST always go outside their "relationship" to be more then a couple. I didn't marry until I was 31 and I didn't share sex with anyone until my wedding night. If I can do it, I can only imagine that it is possible for everyone."


    look, i want to marry someone because of thier heart, thier character, thier thoughts. not for sex or how they look. jeez.
     
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  14. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    Homosexual love isn't the same either. I believe that with GOD ALL things are possible.
    GOD can and does change people. That is what Christianity is all about. I am changed from a sinner to a new creature through Christ Jesus. That doesn't mean that I'm now perfect but it does mean that I have encouragement from the Holy Spirit to try and do my best--because I'm forgiven. EVERYONE has a cross to bear----including those who have sexual problems.

    YOU JUDGE ME AS A NOT A GOOD CHRISTIAN. Tell me, what you base that judgement of yours on?
     
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  15. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    The devil/lucifer/satan or whatever you want to call opposing spirits to 'god' can also change people.


    --$
     
  16. dolly

    dolly Member

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    No, I assumed you didn't because you couldn't understand how homosexuality could be genetic, or related to genetics.


    How do you know? Have you felt it?

    My judgement is based on Jesus, his teachings, and the morals preached by the Bible.
     
  17. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Moderator notice.

    Let's tone down the rhetoric, folks

    A primary rule of this board is civil discourse.

    Accusations and denigrating others is not allowed.

    -pah-

    Moderator notice
     
  18. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    "Homosexual love isn't the same either. "

    no, its the same. maybe a little purer. im talking about the love between two homo spouses. its pure because the love each other's souls, thier individual. its equality, a partnership. and God is a form of Love.

    all forms of lust are evil little nipper.
     
  19. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    " That is what Christianity is all about. I am changed from a sinner to a new creature through Christ Jesus. That doesn't mean that I'm now perfect but it does mean that I have encouragement from the Holy Spirit to try and do my best--because I'm forgiven. EVERYONE has a cross to bear----including those who have sexual problems."

    good for you! really, pat yourself on the back. thats great.

    i believe that jesus is a form of God, just as buddha and krishna and nanek are. thats what i believe, you believe different. its sad that christianity has been manipulated by power hungry popes and such. i have many christian friends and i go to a catholic school and its great.

    alright, i dont deny that God can help people change. but many people including me believe that there is no point in changing your sexuality or forcing yourself otherwise because God judges you for your actions and thoughts, not your sexuality. because sexuality is part of the body and not the soul and this body of mine will pass away. and my soul will move on into another life form. thats samasara. do u kno anything about hinduism? its interesting.

    i can attain salvation withought changing my sexuality. yes, its possible. thats what i believe and i know you believe different.
     
  20. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Another homosexuality thread? :rolleyes: See what happens when I'm gone for a few days.... lol.


    Wleeper,

    Do you realize that you used a Christian website for your "statistics" and "facts"? I could refute most if not all of them, (as some posters here have already done), but it's not worth my time to try to educate someone who seems so willing to believe any lie they hear about BGLT people. The Christian website you copied from is nothing but a anti-gay hate site. Some of the so-called scientists they got their information from were discredited a long time ago. Paul Cameron, for one, who has also been quoted as stating he advocates the extermination of all BGLT people. Nice message you're sending out there....

    Christianity is such a beautiful religion, and while I am not Christian it makes me very sad and angry that some choose to use it such a hateful way.
     
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