Catholic

[BeesAir7]

From what I gathered Aztecs were scarifying humans, spanish came over and killed most, converted the rest to Catholic faith.

The question we must ask was the Aztec Empire, were the leaders real Deitys that gave up humans to the sun? The video below explains, please WATCH THAT SHAMAN


Between 1519 and 1521, Spanish conquistadors, led by Hernán Cortés, overthrew the Aztec Empire. This event is called the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire. Cortés helped old enemies of the Aztecs defeat them in one of the most important events in the Spanish colonization of the Americas.

This Shaman was quite scared of certain beings being one with christ.

 

[metis]

From what I gathered Aztecs were scarifying humans, spanish came over and killed them all, converted them to Catholic faith.

The sentence above is a non-sequitur, plus descendants of the Aztecs are clearly there within Mestizos, which make up the majority population of Mexico.

BTW, are you aware what happened along that line in what's now called the "United States" and "Canada" and which Christian branch mostly did it?

 

[McBell]

From what I gathered Aztecs were scarifying humans, spanish came over and killed them all, converted them to Catholic faith.

Um...
If they are all dead, who exactly got converted?

 

[columbus]

spanish came over and killed them all, converted them to Catholic faith.

I've got my reasons for dissing the RCC.

But this is quite ridiculous.

Maybe you want to rephrase this in a coherent fashion?
Tom

 

[BeesAir7]

FFS Have faith and watch that video

The shaman dwells into past and basically says we could have been turned into stone

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

From what I gathered Aztecs were scarifying humans, spanish came over and killed most, converted the rest to Catholic faith.

The question we must ask was the Aztec Empire, were the leaders real Deitys that gave up humans to the sun? The video below explains, please WATCH THAT SHAMAN


Between 1519 and 1521, Spanish conquistadors, led by Hernán Cortés, overthrew the Aztec Empire. This event is called the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire. Cortés helped old enemies of the Aztecs defeat them in one of the most important events in the Spanish colonization of the Americas.

This Shaman was quite scared of certain beings being one with christ.

There's no reason not to believe that the Spanish exaggerated the practice of human sacrifice among the Aztecs as a form of atrocity propaganda.

Interesting take on it:
“There is no such thing as ‘Human Sacrifice’”

The Aztec people still exist, by the way, as do the Maya.

 

[BeesAir7]

There's no reason not to believe that the Spanish exaggerated the practice of human sacrifice among the Aztecs as a form of atrocity propaganda.

Interesting take on it:
“There is no such thing as ‘Human Sacrifice’”

The Aztec people still exist, by the way, as do the Maya.

Alright,

Can you please give feedback on that shaman video? Thanks

 

[Milton Platt]

From what I gathered Aztecs were scarifying humans, spanish came over and killed most, converted the rest to Catholic faith.

The question we must ask was the Aztec Empire, were the leaders real Deitys that gave up humans to the sun? The video below explains, please WATCH THAT SHAMAN


Between 1519 and 1521, Spanish conquistadors, led by Hernán Cortés, overthrew the Aztec Empire. This event is called the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire. Cortés helped old enemies of the Aztecs defeat them in one of the most important events in the Spanish colonization of the Americas.

This Shaman was quite scared of certain beings being one with christ.

Some of your post is incoherent. I think it is just a slip of the keyboard..stream of consciousness thing, though.
The Spanish were horrible conquerors in the new world. They massacred whole groups of people, enslaved natives to work the mines for gold and silver, tore down native temples and incorporated the stones into their (Catholic) cathedrals, destroyed writings in the native language.......killed untold numbers of people because they would not convert to Catholicism........
Today they would be dragged before the United Nations court. Their actions were motivated by greed and supported by the Catholic church, which received untold wealth from the mines.

 

[metis]

They massacred whole groups of people, enslaved natives to work the mines for gold and silver, tore down native temples and incorporated the stones into their (Catholic) cathedrals, destroyed writings in the native language.......killed untold numbers of people because they would not convert to Catholicism........
Today they would be dragged before the United Nations court. Their actions were motivated by greed and supported by the Catholic church, which received untold wealth from the mines.

The Church tried to stop the atrocities committed by the Spanish and Portuguese civil authorities, including banning the use of Indians as slaves. Popes ruled that Indians were to be protected and converted. The movie "The Mission" is actually based on a true story related to this conflict between the Church and the Spanish and Portuguese civil authorities that took place in Bolivia. In my Anthropology course, I covered these series of events in both North and South America in some detail.

However, the same was not true in Protestant North America. Here they even tried to stop Catholic missionaries from converting them and teaching them their own indigenous language in written form. If you have a chance, check out how the Puritans and Pilgrims treated the Indians after the Indians pretty much saved their lives. Think "smallpox blankets", for example.

 

[BeesAir7]

 

[Twilight Hue]

Um...
If they are all dead, who exactly got converted?

Into what? *Grin*

 

[sojourner]

From what I gathered Aztecs were scarifying humans, spanish came over and killed most, converted the rest to Catholic faith.

The question we must ask was the Aztec Empire, were the leaders real Deitys that gave up humans to the sun? The video below explains, please WATCH THAT SHAMAN


Between 1519 and 1521, Spanish conquistadors, led by Hernán Cortés, overthrew the Aztec Empire. This event is called the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire. Cortés helped old enemies of the Aztecs defeat them in one of the most important events in the Spanish colonization of the Americas.

This Shaman was quite scared of certain beings being one with christ.

What the conquistadors did was unconscionable. What the colonizing missionaries did was unconscionable too. Forced baptism, forced conversion, killing the culture by dressing natives as Europeans, making them use Spanish, etc.

I thought the YouTube video was fantastic. It mirrors much of my own learning of shamanic practices. If shamans were, indeed, teaching the beauty way, that would also be the way of Christ, so no conversion necessary. BTW, a real shaman would have had no fear of “becoming one with Christ.” A real shaman would only fight against the forced conversion and the oppression.

 

[Milton Platt]

The Church tried to stop the atrocities committed by the Spanish and Portuguese civil authorities, including banning the use of Indians as slaves. Popes ruled that Indians were to be protected and converted. The movie "The Mission" is actually based on a true story related to this conflict between the Church and the Spanish and Portuguese civil authorities that took place in Bolivia. In my Anthropology course, I covered these series of events in both North and South America in some detail.

However, the same was not true in Protestant North America. Here they even tried to stop Catholic missionaries from converting them and teaching them their own indigenous language in written form. If you have a chance, check out how the Puritans and Pilgrims treated the Indians after the Indians pretty much saved their lives. Think "smallpox blankets", for example.

Thank you for the corrections.
Nonetheless, many Catholic churches were build using stones from the native's temples that were torn down and native slave labor was used to build the those Catholic churches. How is it that the Catholic church accepted this?

I find the conflict between Catholic and Protestant Christians in North America amusing.

 

[metis]

Nonetheless, many Catholic churches were build using stones from the native's temples that were torn down and native slave labor was used to build the those Catholic churches. How is it that the Catholic church accepted this?

Religious tolerance wasn't much found back then, and the Catholic Church was also one that struggled with this. It took papal decision to pull the Church out of using Indians as slaves and trying to convert them.

In the northern U.S. and Canada, the Church made that move very early on, actually encouraging the French to intermarry with Indians. I am one product of that, and it's with both sides of my family. I am a Me'tis, which is why I used that lower-case as my RF name.

Most Christian Indians in this area and in Canada are Catholic, and when I'm in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, I go to Blessed Kateri Catholic Church on the Bay Mills reservation.

 

[Milton Platt]

Religious tolerance wasn't much found back then, and the Catholic Church was also one that struggled with this. It took papal decision to pull the Church out of using Indians as slaves and trying to convert them.

In the northern U.S. and Canada, the Church made that move very early on, actually encouraging the French to intermarry with Indians. I am one product of that, and it's with both sides of my family. I am a Me'tis, which is why I used that lower-case as my RF name.

Most Christian Indians in this area and in Canada are Catholic, and when I'm in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, I go to Blessed Kateri Catholic Church on the Bay Mills reservation.

Maybe a pope finally decided against slavery, but there is also this:
Dum Diversas (English: Until different) is a papal bull issued on 18 June 1452 by Pope Nicholas V. It authorized Afonso V of Portugal to conquer Saracens and pagans and consign them to "perpetual servitude".[1][2] Pope Calixtus III reiterated the bull in 1456 with Inter Caetera (not to be confused with Alexander VI's), renewed by Pope Sixtus IV in 1481 and Pope Leo X in 1514 with Precelse denotionis. The concept of the consignment of exclusive spheres of influence to certain nation states was extended to the Americas in 1493 by Pope Alexander VI.

 

[metis]

Maybe a pope finally decided against slavery, but there is also this:
Dum Diversas (English: Until different) is a papal bull issued on 18 June 1452 by Pope Nicholas V. It authorized Afonso V of Portugal to conquer Saracens and pagans and consign them to "perpetual servitude". Pope Calixtus III reiterated the bull in 1456 with Inter Caetera (not to be confused with Alexander VI's), renewed by Pope Sixtus IV in 1481 and Pope Leo X in 1514 with Precelse denotionis. The concept of the consignment of exclusive spheres of influence to certain nation states was extended to the Americas in 1493 by Pope Alexander VI.

True, and here's more on that:

The issue of slavery was historically treated with concern by the Catholic Church. Throughout most of human history, slavery has been practiced and accepted by many cultures and religions around the world. Certain passages in the Old Testament sanctioned forms of slavery. The New Testament taught slaves to obey their masters, but this was not an endorsement of slavery, but an appeal to Christian slaves to honor their masters and accept their suffering for Christ's sake, in imitation of him. In proclaiming baptism for all, the Church recognized that all men were fundamentally equal.

After the legalisation of Christianity under the Roman Empire, there was a growing sentiment that many kinds of slavery were not compatible with Christian conceptions of charity and justice; some argued against all forms of slavery while others, including the influential Thomas Aquinas, argued the case for penal slavery subject to certain restrictions. The Christian west did succeed in almost entirely enforcing that a free Christian could not be enslaved, for example when a captive in war, but this itself was subject to continual improvement and was not consistently applied throughout history. The Middle Ages also witnessed the emergence of groups like the Mercedarians, who were founded for the goal of freeing Christian slaves... -- Catholic Church and slavery - Wikipedia

And when did slavery end here in the States that was dominated by Protestants?

BTW, I left my fundamentalist Protestant church in the early 70's because of the racism and their anti-science agenda.

 

[Milton Platt]

True, and here's more on that:

The issue of slavery was historically treated with concern by the Catholic Church. Throughout most of human history, slavery has been practiced and accepted by many cultures and religions around the world. Certain passages in the Old Testament sanctioned forms of slavery. The New Testament taught slaves to obey their masters, but this was not an endorsement of slavery, but an appeal to Christian slaves to honor their masters and accept their suffering for Christ's sake, in imitation of him. In proclaiming baptism for all, the Church recognized that all men were fundamentally equal.

After the legalisation of Christianity under the Roman Empire, there was a growing sentiment that many kinds of slavery were not compatible with Christian conceptions of charity and justice; some argued against all forms of slavery while others, including the influential Thomas Aquinas, argued the case for penal slavery subject to certain restrictions. The Christian west did succeed in almost entirely enforcing that a free Christian could not be enslaved, for example when a captive in war, but this itself was subject to continual improvement and was not consistently applied throughout history. The Middle Ages also witnessed the emergence of groups like the Mercedarians, who were founded for the goal of freeing Christian slaves... -- Catholic Church and slavery - Wikipedia

And when did slavery end here in the States that was dominated by Protestants?

BTW, I left my fundamentalist Protestant church in the early 70's because of the racism and their anti-science agenda.

we could fault both Catholics and Protestants on the issue of slavery. They both had a book in which their god gave clear regulations about how and where to get your slaves and how severely you were allowed to beat them.
Whether one or the other group stopped doing it a little earlier or later than the other is very much beside the point.

 

[metis]

we could fault both Catholics and Protestants on the issue of slavery. They both had a book in which their god gave clear regulations about how and where to get your slaves and how severely you were allowed to beat them.
Whether one or the other group stopped doing it a little earlier or later than the other is very much beside the point.

But it's not just the religious groups that did this, and some who did advocate slavery may have done as such for entirely secular reasons, including what we call "institutionalized racism".

We gotta be careful how we may be inclined to label events and who supposedly caused what. After all, the main driving force in slavery was this: $

 

[BeesAir7]

Tlaloc (Classical Nahuatl: Tlāloc [ˈtɬaːlok])[1] is a member of the pantheon of gods in Aztec religion. As supreme god of the rain, Tlaloc is also a god of earthly fertility and of water.[2] He was widely worshipped as a beneficent giver of life and sustenance. However, he was also feared for his ability to send hail, thunder, and lightning, and for being the lord of the powerful element of water.

 

[Cooky]

700 years of Islamic occupation of Spain, created a new tainted Spanish culture. Jihad was bred into the culture. A monster was born, one that nearly took over two entire continents, most islands in the pacific, and parts of Asia.

...The little Spanish kingdom became an unstoppable, global force.