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Can't One Just be Dharmic? :(

Discussion in 'Dharmic Religions DIR' started by sayak83, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    I am aware that the only thing the Abrahamic religions have done is to fight with each (continuing until today) and leave in their own (me superior than thou) silos of positive reinforcements. But that is not the case for Dharmic religions surely? We have had our loud disagreements with some degree of (metaphorical and literal) stone pelting, but nothing compared to what Islam, Christianity and Judaism has done to each other. Shouldn't our DIR forums reflect this porosity by allowing all Dharmic people to comment in each others forums (no debating of course) and shouldn't the general dharmic DIR be more active than it is. What do you think?

    Just a thought.....
     
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  2. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Dharmic is a very open umbrella; yet the religious admin that operate its rules here, are constrained by their rules. ;)
     
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  3. buddhist

    buddhist Well-Known Member

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    Yes it can be, but like you pointed out, its the Abrahamics that are usually the more raucous ones, which naturally means the Dharmic forums are quieter. Also, we tend to be more introspective instead of more extrospective, so I think we also seek less expressions of our own journeys externally - like in forums.
     
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  4. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    It seems to me that this DIR is not more active mainly because people tend to think of themselves as more of a Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh/etc than as a Dharmi proper.

    And, of course, there is generally speaking a lot more willingness of Hindus to reach out for the other groups than the other way around. One reason is lack of awareness of Hindu doctrine (a real limitation for, say, most Buddhists), but there is also a concern from attempts at subsumming Sikhism and Buddhism into Hinduism despite true doctrinary differences. Attempts at doctrinary erasure, alas, have happened in the past and doubtless will return in the future.

    In a more technical sense, DIRs are supposed to be somewhat restrictive, while the Interfaith Discussion area is not. The argument can be made instead that there is some contradiction in having a Dharmic DIR at all - or even in having a general Hindu DIR, come to think of it. You may want to consider opening and participating in a few threads here:

    Interfaith Discussion
     
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  5. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    I hope that the followers of the abrahamic religions would start putting into practice all the teachings of harmony, peace and love instead of just clinging to the words and hope the above post would be a spur for them in this regard.

    Having said that I think one can post on each other's forum provided we have a basic understanding of the other's faith. For example the buddhists do not believe in a soul, while the hindus and sikhs do.

    The Buddhists and jains do not believe in a personal creator, while the hindus and sikhs do.

    If we keep these differences in mind and post it will not lead to a dilution of the particular forum's teachings and principles. In order to do that one must educate oneself on the other dharmic path before posting so as not to hurt any sensibilities or create unnecessary confusion.

    I think the dharmic forums can be used for debate or discussion of similarities , not the individual forums.

    Metta and Namaste.
     
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  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist. Hinduism is a pagan religion.
    It is not always so.
    Any description of Hinduism is correct only up to a certain extent. :D
     
  7. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    Why is that so ! o_O

    Also, if there is a degree of inaccuracy in Hinduism, as you state, why do you follow such an imperfect system in the first place !

    I hope I am following you precisely here.
     
    #7 ajay0, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist. Hinduism is a pagan religion.
    Yeah, you may not be following me correctly. There is no question of inaccuracy. It is the question of freedom of belief. Some Hindu may accept the existence of God, the other may have a different scheme. Some Hindu may accept the existence of soul, the other may not. In both cases, I am a nay-sayer and I have my arguments.
     
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  9. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I like it just the way it is. There is no need to change anything, IMO. In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Activity on these forums, I believe is directly related to the number of adherents on these forums. If there are only 2 Jains here, you're not going to get much.
     
  10. Spirit_Warrior

    Spirit_Warrior Active Member

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    I think it is a great idea.

    The differences from Dharmic religion to Dharmic religion are not as great, as they are from Abrahamic religion to Abrahmic religion. They share many of the same doctrines, and they only differ on the nature of ultimate reality or ontology, but even these differences are semantical.

    Some of the common doctrines between the Dharmic religions:

    1) The doctrines of karma, samsara, reincarnation and lokas: They agree on the law of karma, they all believe the soul moves up and down from loka to loka in samsara.
    2) The doctrine of spiritual evolution: They agree that the subtle or transmigrating body evolves from simple organisms to complex organisms, from plants, to animals, to humans, gods
    3) The yamas and niyamas: They all agree on the same moral precepts
    4) The doctrine of avidya: They all agree that ignorance of our true nature is the cause of suffering, and also agree that suffering is a universal condition
    5) The same cosmology: They all all agree the universe is an eternal never ending cycle and agree on the same subtle elements and gross elements
    6) Returning to a pure nature: They all agree that the soul has a pure nature, Brahma nature, Buddha nature or God nature and through practice we must restore to that nature
    7) The same epistemology: They all generally agree with perception, inference and testimony as the means of knowledge
    8) Moksha: They all agree liberation from samsara or cycle of birth and rebirth is the goal of life
    9) They share gods, historical characters: In Buddhism Indra, Buddha, Saraswati and many other Hindu deities are shared. In Jatakas one of Buddhas past life is Lord Rama and Buddha is born in the same solar dynasty as Lord Rama; in Hinduism Buddha is an Avatar of Lord Vishnu; in Jainism Rsibha is the first Tirthakara and a brother of Bharat, in Hinduism Rsibha is a Vedic Sage and Bharata dynasty is from which the Mahabharata follows
    10) Yoga: They all agree some of of Yoga practice, using a combination of contemplation, postures, breathing, meditation practices. Most of these practices were developed during the Tantra period, which was interdharmic, and they developed concurrently with each other
    11) Samkhya: They all agree in the distinction between consciousness and matter
    12) Detachment: They all agree that we must detach from sensory and wordly pleasures and cease all desires

    The similarities are so many that I consider myself in very close kinship with all Dharmic religions and have tried to learn about all of them, even thought the tradition I am more focused in is Hinduism. However, I accept their scriptures as pramana, as much as I accept Hindu scriptures. Sometimes what I can learn in Buddhist and Jain scriptures, I don't find in Hindu scriptures and vis versa.

    The differences to me are mere semantical or attitudtional

    1) No Self -- Buddhism does accept the existence of a momentary self, which is the transmigrating entity that moves from body to body. It calls this a false entity which is made of an aggregate of thoughts, feelings, perceptions, elements etc. In Hinduism we call this the self the false self too(ahamkara) which similarly is an aggregate of the thoughts, feelings and elements. The difference being Buddhism does not accept beyond this a permanent self, yet they do accept some sort of fundamental nature(mahanirvana) or tataghata or dharamkaya. In Mahayana Buddhism, the idea of a true universal self or pure mind is also admitted.

    2) No God --- Buddhism remains agnostic about God, but it does accept the existence of deities like Lord Brahma and minor gods. Jainism does in fact admit of gods, but gods as plural, it does not believe there is a single god that created this universe, but rather all souls can realise God-nature and become God themselves. In Hinduism, the same ideas are shared, all sages, gods can realise their Brahma-nature. What "Brahman" is whether personal or impersonal remains a subject of debate.

    3) Austerity --Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism differ in the application of the yamas. Jainism says that we need to apply them to the extreme and admits of extreme austerity, but at the same time it relaxes the rules for the laity(though still strict) Buddhism takes the middle path, still demands a strong moral life, but allows for some things like eating meat. Hinduism is the most liberal in application of the yamas, admitting of kama and artha as also legitimate pursuits of life.

    4) Scriptures --- This is the most biggest difference, Hindu, Buddhist and Jains do not share scriptures, they have their own 2000 year tradition of of scriptures and canons. That said, when I read them, I read very similar things.


    Are Buddhism and Jainism different religions from Hinduism? Absolutely they are. The core difference is Hinduism is the Vedic religion and the Buddhists and Jains did not want be be a part of the Vedic religion, they denied the authority of the Vedas of the Brahmin caste, as well as sacraments of the Vedic tradition, therefore they definitely are different religions. However, they are so close to one another, I I have no objection practising a Buddhist meditation technique or reading Jain scriptures to enrich my own Hindu religion.

    I have not looked at Sikhism here, because I consider Sikhism to be a sect of Hinduism.
     
    #10 Spirit_Warrior, Jan 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
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  11. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    The Hindu DIR is rather strict in its enforcement of non DIR members, whereas in the Buddhism DIR, it is hard to enforce DIR rules. The Sikh and Jain DIRs are rather quiet.
     
  12. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Nice sentiments about understanding and respect.

    I want to clarify rule 10 which exists both to save moderators a lot of work and to keep debate in debate areas. It will not support posting in other religions dirs no matter if you are invited and post respectfully or sing in harmony. You may appeal this by creating a thread in site feedback. Also rule 10 is against criticizing other religions from the safety of your own Dir. It is considered unfair and will cause extra work for me sometimes, so please avoid doing it.
     
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  13. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Ahh, but some Hindus might not believe in a soul, some Buddhists might believe in a personal God etc. People will have their own little quirks and that's just part of it all.
     
  14. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    Some of the unorthodox ones or synchretics you mean. I have no issue with that.
     
  15. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    No just other diverging beliefs occurring. That's just how we roll.
     
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  16. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    yes it should be , ...or to put it another way it would be nice of it was , .....

    as having both Buddhist and Vaisnava background I see perhaps more of the concurrent thread than others might naturaly do , ....

    perfetly outlined hre is the reason for the perceived divisions ,


    whilst all Dharmic faiths pertain to this principle , in daily life it is hard to apply due to our association with the body we find ourselved in at this present moment we develop a strong sence of self which identifies firmly with one or other doctrine , as the body is infact the material element in the equasion , it is the consciousness element that we should be focusing upon , yet for all but the most accomplished this is a difficult task and we fall into the trap of identifying too closely with a one school only veiw .

    if we were to apply this principle divisions between Dharmic faiths would melt away as it is not just desires of a sensual nature that we should learn to deminish but also the desire to assert an own veiw supreiority as this is merly the pleasure of the ego .

    from my perspective also I would agree that the majority of the division lay in semantics and cultural practices ...

    Religions as in practices yes , ....but the divisions between Buddhism Jainism and its vedic origins are more reactionary in that they sought to correct what they veiwed as diminuation of truely dharmic practice , every culture goes through simmilar revisionary preiods , it has and continues to happen even in what we considder to be hinduism propper , ...in reality there is no such thing it is merly a given title for a collection of parts all of which conform to Dharmic principles to a lesser or greater degree, but still within Hinduism there is no agreed concencus , ....

    Dharmic Faith's DIR could provide an interesting platform for discussion between all traditions without the nececity for any one to claim superiority one over the other or on to lay claim to being the holder of the original truth , ...as Truth it self is eternal , ..Sanatana Dharma , ....eternal truth , ..eternal law, ....there can beno oppinion about this truth as it is un changing it is simply that each tradition holds only a one dimensional veiw , ...understanding only as much as they are prepaired to accept , the dettatchment spoken of by buddhists and by Krsna in the Gita is one of trancending boundaries and conditioning it is about going beyond fear , beyond clinging to the 'I am' and understanding our own true nature , ...arguing about how we do or do not perceive Gods is merely a divice used by the human who dosent want to go beyond a certain cultural conditioning be that an inborn conditioning in that we are born into a culture or that of a culture that we have addopted .
     
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  17. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist. Hinduism is a pagan religion.
    We are not averse to participation from people who may not be Hindus, but they need to respect our sentiments here. We do not want those who come here just to create trouble.
     
  18. Kirran

    Kirran
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    At the ashram I go to, there's really not much notice taken of the differences. Plenty of Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs there, with no discernible distinctions between them.
     
  19. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Well of course. Running towards one's goal is all that matters. Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism etc are but labels. Words only given meaning from ourselves.
     
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  20. crowfeather

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    "Can't One Just be Dharmic?"

    Of course one can. Except one isn't, almost without exception. One fully grasping and embracing Dharma is the rarest of all men. The Spiritually Enlightened being.
    To suddenly recognize and become one with the interconnectedness, sublime beauty, benevolence, and perfection of the entire cosmos, is the nature of Dharma.
    Who has ever encountered such a being?

    I am closest to being a taoist, but with elements of jainism. Yet those, to me, are not religions at all; merely statements of Dharma.
    It is what it is, and that's that. Dharma is nothing to do with 'understanding', but of simply being, in full measure.
    Anybody could embrace and embody it, but vanishingly few ever will.

     
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