Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is more likely a view from bias when the reformation leaders wanted to distance themselves from the RCC by demonizing it.
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Can you Unravel the Mystery?
- Thread starter nPeace
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Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I see no reference in that verse tying it to Rome.
crossbody
Member
This is some really good information you provided, thanks.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
The woman is a city that sits on 7 hills/mountains, so how can she be religion?
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Prostitution is the oldest profession; trade pleasure for money. The Symbolism of Babylon is connected to money, prestige, trade and the conspicuous consumption of material things, for pleasure and prestige. It is more connected to materialism, in a human value or merchant sense; prestige of objects. In the symbolism, John is amazed at the Whore of Babylon, until he is told her judgement. She has a very appealing surface; prestige, but this surface hides a very shady and less than desirable interior.
The successful prostitute will try to make her job performance as sexy as possible, to make it quick and to hopefully have a repetitive customer. But she has no love for her clients, even if she smiles and appears to care. She is there for the money and will use games of allure. She is like an actress, with a painted smile, that can be play the role of love or friend if that helps with the transaction. Babylon is also connected to marketing, such as the prestige of designer clothes, can make people over spend, just to feel important for a day; prestige overlay. But this is an illusion. The John who falls in love with the prostitute can be fleeced.
If you look back at clothing styles from the past, one may think what were you thinking; disco leisure suits. The whore of marketing was dancing for you, made even the leisure suited it appear this was state of the art and a timeless love. But it was all an illusion; she is was drunk with the lifeblood of the Saints. Sucker born every minute.
This symbolism is less about a place, but is really about an aspect of our collective human propensities, one that is misleading and the cause of so many atrocities; steal money to buy bling, to so can be fancy; emperor's new clothes. Conquer counties for their gold and treasures to gain that prestige.
The Beast she rides is red which is connected to emotions=red=fire. A Beast is not an animal, so this emotional ambiance is not exactly natural, but is more manmade up; prestige, but relative to a natural emotion; desire. Animals cannot tell the difference between designer and no label clothes. This needs to be taught and conditioned for humans. But its magic, like Cinderella, has a time stamp, before it atrophies; last year's shoes, even if still like new, will have zero or even negative magic now. Now you need new shoes, to feel important or cutting edge again; mental game.
If you were psycho-analyzing yourself and his appeared in a dream this is the type of analysis she represents. The prophesies are about an update in the brains operating system and one needs to deal with this collective illusion effect, and come to terms with it. It is not natural. It need to be part of the uninstall process; burnt with fire, so there is a clean install.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe a city is not a religion.
Elihoenai
Well-Known Member
Genesis 3:7
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Revelation 1:3
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Those that Cherish the Flesh Will Never Unravel the Mystery, having Eyes Wide Shut.
Christian Gnostics Practice the Book of Revelation Fulfilling Prophecy.
Eyes Wide Shut (1999) Official Trailer - Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman Movie HD
Eyes Wide Shut Trailer HD
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
Babylon is heartless. As whoredom takes away the heart, and as wine takes away the heart.
Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart. Hosea 4:11
Babylon is just like Ephraim.
Consider the sin of Ephraim:
The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid. Hosea 13:12
Consider the whoredom of Ephraim:
I have seen an horrible thing in the house of Israel: there is the whoredom of Ephraim, Israel is defiled. Hosea 6:10
Consider the wine of Ephraim:
Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine! Isaiah 28:1
Consider Ephraim is heartless.
Ephraim also is like a silly dove without heart: they call to Egypt, they go to Assyria.
So like Ephraim, Babylon is as heartless as a whore drunk on wine.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Babylon the Great is described as a city on seven hills. This is a clear reference to pagan Rome. It's really a no-brainer.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
This is a reference to the seven hills upon which the city of Rome is built.
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
A no-brainer would be to draw a line around seven hills and exclude other hills because they don't add up to seven.
Anyway. I think you are referring to the description of the seven mountains where the woman sits.
"And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth". Revelation 7:19
A mountain is a higher place, it is higher than a hill.
As Babylon is drunk on wine, drunk on the wine of the mountains:
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt". Amos 9:13
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
"
Seven Hills of Rome, group of hills on or about which the ancient city of Rome was built. The original city of Romulus was built upon Palatine Hill (Latin: Mons Palatinus). The other hills are the Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine (known respectively in Latin as the Mons Capitolinus, Mons Quirinalis, Mons Viminalis, Mons Esquilinus, Mons Caelius, and Mons Aventinus).
Seven Hills of Rome | Seven Hills, Ancient Ruins, Forum Romanum
Seven Hills of Rome, group of hills on or about which the ancient city of Rome was built. The original city of Romulus was built upon Palatine Hill (Latin: Mons Palatinus). The other hills are the Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine (known respectively in Latin as the
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
"
Seven Hills of Rome, group of hills on or about which the ancient city of Rome was built. The original city of Romulus was built upon Palatine Hill (Latin: Mons Palatinus). The other hills are the Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine (known respectively in Latin as the Mons Capitolinus, Mons Quirinalis, Mons Viminalis, Mons Esquilinus, Mons Caelius, and Mons Aventinus).
Seven Hills of Rome | Seven Hills, Ancient Ruins, Forum Romanum
Seven Hills of Rome, group of hills on or about which the ancient city of Rome was built. The original city of Romulus was built upon Palatine Hill (Latin: Mons Palatinus). The other hills are the Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine (known respectively in Latin as thewww.britannica.com
I have seen some reasoning for other hill exclusion (bolded):
"The Vatican Hill (Latin Collis Vaticanus) lying northwest of the Tiber, the Pincian Hill (Mons Pincius), lying to the north, the Janiculan Hill (Latin Janiculum), lying to the west, and the Sacred Mount (Latin Mons Sacer), lying to the northeast, are not counted among the traditional Seven Hills, being outside the boundaries of the most ancient part of Rome".
Seven hills of Rome - Wikipedia
But if at a time there was more than seven hills, there must have also been a time that it was less than seven hills.
And when being less than seven hills would be more ancient.
Anyway the verse says mountains, not hills. There is a difference.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That is correct. The Vatican is on land that was not originally part of the city of Rome. And today it is considered not only a separate city, but an entirely separate country.I have seen some reasoning for other hill exclusion (bolded):
"The Vatican Hill (Latin Collis Vaticanus) lying northwest of the Tiber, the Pincian Hill (Mons Pincius), lying to the north, the Janiculan Hill (Latin Janiculum), lying to the west, and the Sacred Mount (Latin Mons Sacer), lying to the northeast, are not counted among the traditional Seven Hills, being outside the boundaries of the most ancient part of Rome".
Seven hills of Rome - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
But if at a time there was more than seven hills, there must have also been a time that it was less than seven hills.
And when being less than seven hills would be more ancient.
Anyway the verse says mountains, not hills. There is a difference.
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
So the seven hills are only being counted inside the Servian walls constructed early 4th Century BC.
But there still seems to be problems with the number seven like between Varro saying seven hills, and Labeo saying eight hills.
Others have also different opinions of the seven:
"Further, there are eight hills named instead of seven, and it is self-evident that some error is lodged here; for no antiquarian would be so foolish as to cite the names of eight hills to explain Septimontium. Various measures have been resorted to in order to reduce the number to seven. Niebuhr struck out Subura; Bunsen, Caelio; Huschke changed the order and, inserting in, reads Subura in Caelio. None of these methods commends itself with any great force. It is evident that this list is arranged on no topographical or historical basis, and the only question arising is how to make seven out of an apparent eight".
S. B. Platner • The Septimontium and the Seven Hills — CP 1:69‑80 (1906)
Why the Seven Hills of Rome are eight, including the Subura, which is a valley: a defense of Wissowa's theory. Part of a large site on ancient Rome.
penelope.uchicago.edu
Maybe they were trying to twist things to make the Septimontium into being about Rome.
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Ebionite
Well-Known Member
What religion, specifically?
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Revelation 16:19
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Revelation 17:4
Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty [is] a fading flower, which [are] on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
Isaiah 28:1
But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble [in] judgment.
For all tables are full of vomit [and] filthiness, [so that there is] no place [clean].
Isaiah 28:7-8
Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakkuk 2:4-5
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1 Corinthians 11:26
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
The government of the Commonwealth is called the Crown.
And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this [is] the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
And his father refused, and said, I know [it], my son, I know [it]: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
Genesis 48:17-19
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Ebionite
Well-Known Member
It's a symbol, like leaven is a symbol for the doctrine of the Pharisees.
For the stone shall cry out of the wall, and the beam out of the timber shall answer it.
Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and stablisheth a city by iniquity!
Habakkuk 2:11-12
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1 Corinthians 3:10
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Red is the color of Edom:
And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red [pottage]; for I [am] faint: therefore was his name called Edom.
Genesis 25:30
The Herodian dynasty was central to the politics of the crucifixion (crucifixion was the punishment for sedition). The dynasty began with Antipater the Idumean (Edomite).
Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in [his] talk.
And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any [man]: for thou regardest not the person of men.
Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, [ye] hypocrites?
Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription?
They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Matthew 22:15-21
Entanglement is relevant to the righteous servant of Psalm 35:
For without cause have they hid for me their net [in] a pit, [which] without cause they have digged for my soul.
Psalms 35:7
Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let YHWH be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
Psalms 35:27
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
There's no ekklesia in the Greek that could translate as church, "She that is at Babylon" is better.