Can you Unravel the Mystery?

[2ndpillar]

Isaiah 56:6 sounds a lot like full conversion including circumcision and keeping the Torah including marriage and training our children to do the same. In that case the question is who has adopted us, because if we don't have a Jewish parent then how do we claim any relation. You must have an opinion on who is the father in heaven and the basis of adoption for us that connects us to make the gospels relevant for us. Who is it that makes the gospels relevant to non Jews, and why should we read them? They are written to Jews by Jews. That much is clear to me, because they use many arcane Jewish cultural situations that confuse and mislead most readers. So what is the relevance to a non Jewish person, without Paul. I am perfectly fine with it. I don't insist upon a particular answer.

Well, to be included in the family of Abraham, whose name means "father of peoples/nations/Gentiles", which included his slaves, and all of his children, including Essau and Ishmael, one had to be "circumcised". To worship on God's mountain, all you had to do was keep the Commandments and His Sabbath per Isaiah 56:6. Now if you want to expand that to include the lies of the scribes/Pharisees (Jeremiah 8:8), well join the Jews, and feel free to do so, since you already appear to follow the Pharisee Paul. Just don't expect to come out ahead as the mark of the "beast with two horns like a lamb", includes the teachings of the 1st horn like a lamb", Paul, which ends with one having to drink from the cup of "His anger" (Rev 14:10). Like baptism with water, circumcision is simply an outward sign of the softening of the heart from one of stone to one of flesh. That softening hasn't happened (Ez 36:26). With respect to Paul and his teachings on circumcision, that is with respect to the 1st horn like a lamb, "shepherd", taken to "pasture the flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter", who was to try and negate the covenant made with all the peoples, which would be the covenant God made with Abraham (Zech 11:7-10), which the covenant of circumcision. In the good old days, in the 1960s, I went to a public high school, which was mostly Protestants, with one Mormon family and one Catholic family. The only guy I know of during that time who wasn't circumcised was a guy born in a log cabin. Yeshua was to be a "light" to all nations, and at the end, when the LORD has compassion on Jacob (Is 14:1-2) the nations will come to the house of Israel, and say the "LORD is with you", how can we join your club. (Micah 4:2)

King James Bible
Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

 

[Brian2]

@Brian2
This generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen..

Perhaps you can explain what generation Jesus was speaking of.

Here is JWs explanation, on "generation" in that verse.
“This Generation” of Christ’s Prophecies. When Bible prophecy speaks of “this generation,” it is necessary to consider the context to determine what generation is meant. Jesus Christ, when denouncing the Jewish religious leaders, concluded by saying: “Truly I say to you, All these things will come upon this generation.” History recounts that about 37 years later (in 70 C.E.) that contemporary generation personally experienced the destruction of Jerusalem, as foretold. - Matthew 23:36.

Later that same day, Jesus again used practically the same words, saying: “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Matthew 24:34) In this instance, Jesus was answering a question regarding the desolation of Jerusalem and its temple as well as regarding the sign of his presence and of the conclusion of the system of things. So his comment about “this generation” logically had an application down to 70 C.E. However, he was also using the word “generation” with reference to humans whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events during his presence. - Matthew 24.

Do you think the generation Jesus mentioned at Matthew 24, referred to those living in 1 CE?

Jesus is answering about the destruction of the Temple and the signs of His coming also. I believe it is the signs of His coming, not His presence.
Whether the Jews will build another Temple which will be destroyed is not said.
But the generation that sees all the signs mentioned in the prophecy will also see the coming of Jesus imo.
Sorry I did not answer before this, I have not been receiving emails from RF for a long time and so I don't know all the places I have been mentioned in a post.

 

[2ndpillar]

Considering ideas isn't toxic.

I notice he says it of both the Pharisees and Sadducees not just one or the other. It has something to do with both. You answer in the next paragraph that it is hypocrisy (and possibly greed). It may have been an issue with that particular generation of Sadducee and Pharisee and not all future generations. On the other hand hypocrisy is everywhere and seems to be part of the human condition, but this still only puts Christians and them on similar footing. What is the nature of our special resistance to hypocrisy once we eliminate Paul? We get rid of Paul and then will develop a superior resistance to these evils, how.

Considering "toxic" ideas is toxic, and in the case of following the ideas of "false prophets" is "destructive" (Mt 7:13-15). The Pharisees were into the Talmud, the lies of the scribes (Jer 8:8), and believed in resurrection, whereas the Sadducees did not. They both prayed in public and thought making their tithes were more often than not, more important than honoring their parents per the more substantive Commandments. They thought their opinions and expertise were the cat's meow, and with respect to the Pharisees, wrote down their inflated opinions which was to supersede the actual Law and the prophets in scope and affect, and in the case of Paul's followers, make them "pass away". According to Ez 34:16, they will be the first to be "destroyed". They multiplied words to their own demise. (Proverbs 10:19) Yet Judah and Ephraim will "acknowledge their guilt" in the long run and be "healed" (Hosea 5:15-6:2), whereas the surviving nations/Gentiles will eventually be ruled from Jerusalem (Zech 14:16) by the means of a "rod of iron" (Rev 19:15), while at the same time keeping the Sabbath, the "feast of Booths" every year. All this after "Judah" fights the "nations" at "Jerusalem" (Zech 14:14) and wins and claims the gold, silver, and wealth from the "surrounding" nations/Gentiles, all which occurs during the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), Har-Magedon (Rev 16:16). Now some of the "nations"/Gentiles will survive, for they are to be sold into slavery (Joel 3:7-8) and bow down to the "king" once a year in Jerusalem.

 

[2ndpillar]

I've already pointed out a snag that the gospels are written by Jews to Jews. This is slightly off topic, but it is relevant. The gospels also appear to me to be about Jewish problems not about things relevant to non Jewish people. For example Jesus says "You are the salt of the Earth" to Jews. (Matthew 5:13) Great, but what does that have to do with me? I am, out of habit, used to assuming its something for me; but what makes it written to me. It seems that I am an outsider looking in, but preachers tells me this is addressed to me and that I am the salt of the Earth. I understand Jesus argument about the salt, but he's talking to Jews. He's talking about people who know the Torah already.

Let me put to you that without Paul (not that I care) the relevance of the cross is that it is about the death and resurrection of Israel. Every prophecy about Israel is about Jesus, making them the same thing. All of the early Christian talk uses Jesus as a symbol for Israel. This makes perfect sense considering the political forces of the time. The gospel is saying that the temple's destruction is for the sake of the world, etc. There is nowhere that the gospels say I am relevant to the salvation of the world or that I am to preach anything. All I have to do is be me. The Jews are the ones who have to do everythin

All the Jews/Judah and Ephraim/Israel have to do is "acknowledge their guilt" (Hosea 5:11-15) after over 2 days (2000 years) of being "oppressed and crushed in judgement" and then on the 3rd day be healed. At that time, the surviving nations, after the LORD and Judah conquer the nations at Jerusalem (Zech 14:13-14), will come to the house of Israel and say God is with you. The "strangers"/Gentiles will become subservient to Jacob (Is 14:1-2). At that time many of the Gentiles can return to their own gods (Daniel 10:20) or seek to worship the God of Israel on His mountain. Right now, the Gentiles for the most part worship Sol Invictus, the God of the Roman emperor Constantine, upon whose shoulders sits the daughters of Babylon the Great, the Gentile churches, whose authority comes from the "dragon"(Rev 13 & 17). Your Gentile role would be that of the "nations"/Gentiles. As for you being healed, well, you are not healed now, and will die anyway (Jer 31:30), so what has your following of Paul provided for you?

 

[wellwisher]

On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.”
Revelation 17:5​

Notable features

Babylon the Great is described as​

• the great prostitute
• sitting on many waters,
• committed sexual immorality with the kings of the earth
• making earth’s inhabitants drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality
• sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast
• clothed in purple and scarlet
• adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls
• having in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality
• the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth
• drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus
• the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth

Additional clues to unravel the mystery

• (Revelation 17:9-13) 9 The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. 12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.
• (Revelation 17:15) . . .“The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.
• (Revelation 18:3) . . .the merchants of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury. . .
• (Revelation 18:5) . . .her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. . .
• (Revelation 18:7) . . .she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury. . . she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning. 
• (Revelation 18:22-23) 22 . . .the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp, of musicians, of flutists, and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again. And no craftsman who practices any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again. 23 No light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; for your merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, and by your spiritistic practices all the nations were misled.

What is the identity of Babylon the Great?
These features, and references leaves us in no doubt! The Mother Harlot, Babylon the Great can be nothing other than religion. Notably, since she has God's displeasure, she has to be false religion. This is supported by the warning God gives... “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. . . (Revelation 18:4-5)

Thus, keeping in consistency with scripture, Babylon the Great represents all religion that is false from God's perspective.
What else can it be, based on scriptural references?

Babylon is not really a place, but more of a state of mind and collective behavior. Babylon is presented as a she. The "she" shows a connection to matter and material things; matter=mother. She is very beautiful and adorned, but is also very shady. John marvels at her outward appearance, but the Angel explains her true nature as a Whore.

Babylon symbolizes superficial and collective self esteem, based on material things. One can look beautiful/handsome with a weekend trip to the spar and a new set of designer clothes. But she/you is not what you appear to be based on this shiny surface; always so beautiful. Below that temporary shiny exterior, is not as pretty; insecurities that drive this need. The beautiful mask/shell of Babylon is designed for the short term applause of the external world. Clothes get old and need to be renewed or the applause and jealousy will end.

Many young couples will over extend their finances, trying to keep up with the Jones; material things. This might buy an expensive house, a boat, a vacation home, a motorcycle, new furniture from a top level business, etc. The Whore symbolism is this image of materialism, for the pleasure stemming from the envy of others and appeasement of insecurity. Bu this over extension can lead to stresses. It requires cash to rent the pretty whore for pleasure. Designer clothes wear out, or go out of style, so your continued pleasure requires another visit to the whore, to reboot fresh.

Jesus spoke of the inner man, which is not connected to outwardly pretty Babylon and the money exchange for its pleasure. Buddha also took the same path. He was from a very wealthy family, who had all the creature luxury of his days, so Buddha could have lived a life as the Beautiful Babylon symbol. But he saw this pleasure was transitory, like renting a Ho for an hour of enjoyment. It wears off and you need another dose. He evolved his inner man where great treasures could be found, within.

The anger at the rich, by the Left, is partially due to jealousy, since the levels of super rich symbolic Babylon, is top notch, and not available for all. This jealousy is part of insecurity of the Scarlet Beast; scarlet is red and red is emotions. The Beast; emotions, will burn the Whore with fire. The shallow material quest will end, but not by wisdom of the ages; Jesus and Buddha showing a better way; but at the hand of the people; Beast, on which the Whore rides and depends. Jealousy and insecurity makes you adorn yourself for the good external feedback of others. But if you cannot adorn to the 9's; keep up, the rage can come out and you may want to loot and burn the objects of Babylon, so nobody can have it.

The prestige of materialism, adorning oneself with designer bobbles, can make you appear higher, in the eyes other people. The poor child needs the expensive fancy basketball shoes to get along in their shallow material pond. The shoes confer prestige and self esteem. The same insecurity, that supports the beast; need and willingness to buy, will eventually burn her with fire; jealousy. If you cannot buy the stairway to heaven, you will burn it so nobody can climb. This sound like the promises of Left leading to Socialism. Revelations; after the Whore is burned by the Beast with fire, the merchants of the world mourn since nobody buys their cargo anymore. One can see by that quote the connection to material prestige. This is not a place since these same dynamics are world wide; human nature.

I was educated as an engineer and had a good job with career opportunities leading to the upper middle class. I quit the Babylon treadmill; materialism, to find a simple job that placed me a notch above the poverty line, so I could not be dependent on Government. From this position, of basic self reliance, I would not be able to pursue the material path of symbolic Babylon; by default. I was adorned, not in jewels, but in a humble peasant dress riding a donkey. This was easy for me, being a child from the Love generation, who had tried to get rid of the illusions of materialism. This did not last, collectively. From this humble platform, I had no choice but to develop from the inside out. Now I find contentment in treasures of my inner self.

Prophesy is really about an update in the human brain's operating system. Part of any update process, is an uninstall process of the old system into a backup copy. This is the symbolism of the Whore riding the Beast and the Beast burning the whore with fire. This is less about group dynamics; external world stops buying, but more about each of us searching our soul; internal, for what is our need and what is enduring. This is not easy to do, since without the material mask, the insecure mob will sense you being different and will try to make you insecure.

In Revelations, there is the Abomination of Desolation. This is connected to the whore being burnt by the jealous beast. In a symbolic sense, an entire lifestyle meets a sudden awakening and ends, with your soul waiting in faith, since one cannot go back, since it is all gone; placed in backup. What is forward only slowly comes into focus; faith and perseverance of the Saints.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well, to be included in the family of Abraham, whose name means "father of peoples/nations/Gentiles", which included his slaves, and all of his children, including Essau and Ishmael, one had to be "circumcised". To worship on God's mountain, all you had to do was keep the Commandments and His Sabbath per Isaiah 56:6. Now if you want to expand that to include the lies of the scribes/Pharisees (Jeremiah 8:8), well join the Jews, and feel free to do so, since you already appear to follow the Pharisee Paul. Just don't expect to come out ahead as the mark of the "beast with two horns like a lamb", includes the teachings of the 1st horn like a lamb", Paul, which ends with one having to drink from the cup of "His anger" (Rev 14:10). Like baptism with water, circumcision is simply an outward sign of the softening of the heart from one of stone to one of flesh. That softening hasn't happened (Ez 36:26). With respect to Paul and his teachings on circumcision, that is with respect to the 1st horn like a lamb, "shepherd", taken to "pasture the flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter", who was to try and negate the covenant made with all the peoples, which would be the covenant God made with Abraham (Zech 11:7-10), which the covenant of circumcision. In the good old days, in the 1960s, I went to a public high school, which was mostly Protestants, with one Mormon family and one Catholic family. The only guy I know of during that time who wasn't circumcised was a guy born in a log cabin. Yeshua was to be a "light" to all nations, and at the end, when the LORD has compassion on Jacob (Is 14:1-2) the nations will come to the house of Israel, and say the "LORD is with you", how can we join your club. (Micah 4:2)

King James Bible
Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

So circumcision is required, and the ten commandments? How would we honor our parents, and what if our parents had a lot of instructions for us to pass on to our kids? Would this become a Talmud?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Considering "toxic" ideas is toxic, and in the case of following the ideas of "false prophets" is "destructive" (Mt 7:13-15). The Pharisees were into the Talmud, the lies of the scribes (Jer 8:8), and believed in resurrection, whereas the Sadducees did not. They both prayed in public and thought making their tithes were more often than not, more important than honoring their parents per the more substantive Commandments. They thought their opinions and expertise were the cat's meow, and with respect to the Pharisees, wrote down their inflated opinions which was to supersede the actual Law and the prophets in scope and affect, and in the case of Paul's followers, make them "pass away". According to Ez 34:16, they will be the first to be "destroyed". They multiplied words to their own demise. (Proverbs 10:19) Yet Judah and Ephraim will "acknowledge their guilt" in the long run and be "healed" (Hosea 5:15-6:2), whereas the surviving nations/Gentiles will eventually be ruled from Jerusalem (Zech 14:16) by the means of a "rod of iron" (Rev 19:15), while at the same time keeping the Sabbath, the "feast of Booths" every year. All this after "Judah" fights the "nations" at "Jerusalem" (Zech 14:14) and wins and claims the gold, silver, and wealth from the "surrounding" nations/Gentiles, all which occurs during the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), Har-Magedon (Rev 16:16). Now some of the "nations"/Gentiles will survive, for they are to be sold into slavery (Joel 3:7-8) and bow down to the "king" once a year in Jerusalem.

It's not only scribes but all people in authority. They always fail sooner or later and begin oppressing and taking. It's a common theme in scripture stories. Prophets priests kings etc all go bad in the stories, and lineages fail. Blood is no hero.

 

[Brickjectivity]

All the Jews/Judah and Ephraim/Israel have to do is "acknowledge their guilt" (Hosea 5:11-15) after over 2 days (2000 years) of being "oppressed and crushed in judgement" and then on the 3rd day be healed. At that time, the surviving nations, after the LORD and Judah conquer the nations at Jerusalem (Zech 14:13-14), will come to the house of Israel and say God is with you. The "strangers"/Gentiles will become subservient to Jacob (Is 14:1-2). At that time many of the Gentiles can return to their own gods (Daniel 10:20) or seek to worship the God of Israel on His mountain. Right now, the Gentiles for the most part worship Sol Invictus, the God of the Roman emperor Constantine, upon whose shoulders sits the daughters of Babylon the Great, the Gentile churches, whose authority comes from the "dragon"(Rev 13 & 17). Your Gentile role would be that of the "nations"/Gentiles. As for you being healed, well, you are not healed now, and will die anyway (Jer 31:30), so what has your following of Paul provided for you?

Your belief in an afterlife is depressingly wishful thinking, probably something you will regret.

 

[2ndpillar]

It's not only scribes but all people in authority. They always fail sooner or later and begin oppressing and taking. It's a common theme in scripture stories. Prophets priests kings etc all go bad in the stories, and lineages fail. Blood is no hero.

With regards to Ezekiel 34, it is the "shepherds"/"fat", that don't feed, heal, or care for the sheep, much like Peter was per Zech 11:16-17 and John 21:15-16 who will be "destroyed"/"annihilated" (Zech 11:8). If you "survive" the "day of LORD", you might want to get used to "authority", for the "LORD" will make "David" the "one shepherd" and "prince among them" (Ex 34:23-24) after destroying the "fat" "shepherds". Your attitude for "authority" might get you an honorable invitation into the nation of sovereign citizens.

 

[RestlessSoul]

A pagan Goddess.

It's a city in Iraq, once the capital of an empire. It's name has been used as a generic term for oppressive power structures ever since.

 

[nPeace]

Jesus is answering about the destruction of the Temple and the signs of His coming also. I believe it is the signs of His coming, not His presence.
Whether the Jews will build another Temple which will be destroyed is not said.
But the generation that sees all the signs mentioned in the prophecy will also see the coming of Jesus imo.
Sorry I did not answer before this, I have not been receiving emails from RF for a long time and so I don't know all the places I have been mentioned in a post.

No problem.
Thanks for responding.
So would that be the generation that Jesus is speaking to, which will both see the sign, as well as Jesus' coming, in your opinion?

 

[2ndpillar]

So circumcision is required, and the ten commandments? How would we honor our parents, and what if our parents had a lot of instructions for us to pass on to our kids? Would this become a Talmud?

The Talmud is the writings of the scribes/Pharisees, the traditions of men. What a parent tells his children, such as clean your room every month, or don't drink more than 12 beers before driving, would be in category of the family traditions being passed down the line. Circumcision is not required for the Gentiles outside the promises given to Abraham and his heirs and slaves. They can and do return to their own gods and authority figures such as the Roman citizen Paul. You notice how Paul got ticked off when he had to circumcise Titus per Gal 2:3-9 per the men of "reputed" "reputation, the "reputed pillars", Peter, John, yet he went out and cut off his own hair for a vow (Act 18:18), and apparently his parents had him circumcised. Is the man consistent or what? Paul also stated that Peter was to teach the circumcised (Gal 2:7), which is not corroborated in Acts 15:7. If Paul and his cohorts can't produce a uniform message, how are you going to get up the energy to get out of bed in the morning and vouch for the guy?

 

[2ndpillar]

Your belief in an afterlife is depressingly wishful thinking, probably something you will regret.

Except for "judgment" at the white throne, there is no "afterlife" for those not found in the book of life. (Rev 20:12-15). Except with the exception of the "false prophet", and the "beast" (Rev 20:10) who will have reservations in the "lake of fire" "forever". That might not be considered much of a life. The imminent threat isn't the "lake of fire", but the upcoming "furnace of fire" (Har-Magedon) for the "wicked"/"lawless" (Mt 13:30 & 38-50).

 

[Brickjectivity]

With regards to Ezekiel 34, it is the "shepherds"/"fat", that don't feed, heal, or care for the sheep, much like Peter was per Zech 11:16-17 and John 21:15-16 who will be "destroyed"/"annihilated" (Zech 11:8). If you "survive" the "day of LORD", you might want to get used to "authority", for the "LORD" will make "David" the "one shepherd" and "prince among them" (Ex 34:23-24) after destroying the "fat" "shepherds". Your attitude for "authority" might get you an honorable invitation into the nation of sovereign citizens.

Because of David killing Uriah the Hittite there is a promise made to him that the sword will never depart from David's house. That is in my bible in 2 Samuel 12:10. Why would anyone want David to be over them if it is guaranteed there will be war always? An ideal situation such as one where a kingdom made without hands destroys all others will probably require the kind of miracle imagined in Jeremiah 31 in which no government is needed, because everyone simply knows what to do. The fact that it has never happened after so many years makes it hard to believe that it ever will happen, but maybe it will. Still I don't think its a good idea to put a king over you who is guaranteed to always be at war.

Except for "judgment" at the white throne, there is no "afterlife" for those not found in the book of life. (Rev 20:12-15). Except with the exception of the "false prophet", and the "beast" (Rev 20:10) who will have reservations in the "lake of fire" "forever". That might not be considered much of a life. The imminent threat isn't the "lake of fire", but the upcoming "furnace of fire" (Har-Magedon) for the "wicked"/"lawless" (Mt 13:30 & 38-50).

I'm not going to spend time arguing about this. Many who seek an afterlife are blinded by it. Its what they want, and they won't take 'No' for an answer. Very often it is a cruel subject to bring up such as with parents who have deceased children. I think a lot of good could come from not believing in afterlife, but at the same time I'm not interested in crushing the life out of people just for the sake of pressing my opinion. I guess if I really got angry and careless I would, because I am cruel enough. Fruits of the spirit don't come easy. How ridiculous it seems to take Israel's resurrection and conflate it with individual resurrection, but it is far more ridiculous to a bereaved person to speak about death. We don't all communicate the same way. We aren't all the same kind of creature -- not really. Maybe we all use the same words, but internally we don't process them the same. Believe what you want about it, but there is no scripture support in my opinion.

The Talmud is the writings of the scribes/Pharisees, the traditions of men. What a parent tells his children, such as clean your room every month, or don't drink more than 12 beers before driving, would be in category of the family traditions being passed down the line. Circumcision is not required for the Gentiles outside the promises given to Abraham and his heirs and slaves. They can and do return to their own gods and authority figures such as the Roman citizen Paul. You notice how Paul got ticked off when he had to circumcise Titus per Gal 2:3-9 per the men of "reputed" "reputation, the "reputed pillars", Peter, John, yet he went out and cut off his own hair for a vow (Act 18:18), and apparently his parents had him circumcised. Is the man consistent or what? Paul also stated that Peter was to teach the circumcised (Gal 2:7), which is not corroborated in Acts 15:7. If Paul and his cohorts can't produce a uniform message, how are you going to get up the energy to get out of bed in the morning and vouch for the guy?

The Talmud is written by ancestors, so there is a requirement to honor these ancestors if you believe in honoring ancestors. For example if you believe in obeying the two tablets, then you might be required to be familiar with the Talmud. How can you honor them if you don't read their Talmud? Maybe reading is also not enough and they have to consider the advice therein.

In Matthew I realize that Jesus complains that some traditions have been used to nullify Torah. I recognize that is possible, but it doesn't make Talmud evil. Jesus words must be taken as arguments not as pat, because Jews have a requirement to test words like his. They also don't consider Jesus to be anyone's ancestor at all. He has, after all, no physical descendants. They also can't simply take a miracle as proof that things are true, resurrection or not. Even if there were a RAW video of a resurrection it would at best be a reason to consider the arguments Jesus gave and not any reason to accept them. So if there are traditions which have nullified reasonable laws, then its reasonable for us to expect them to fix that. After all what they decide does kind of affect everyone else in the world, so we can at least squeak up a little if they are losing their minds. We can't have them tipping cows, but I can't see claiming that the Talmud is itself a bad thing. I think its great that they can have such a long running conversation with their ancestors.

 

[2ndpillar]

Because of David killing Uriah the Hittite there is a promise made to him that the sword will never depart from David's house. That is in my bible in 2 Samuel 12:10. Why would anyone want David to be over them if it is guaranteed there will be war always? An ideal situation such as one where a kingdom made without hands destroys all others will probably require the kind of miracle imagined in Jeremiah 31 in which no government is needed, because everyone simply knows what to do. The fact that it has never happened after so many years makes it hard to believe that it ever will happen, but maybe it will. Still I don't think its a good idea to put a king over you who is guaranteed to always be at war.

Get used to it. The "LORD" will put "My servant David" as "king" over the recombined Judah and Ephraim (Ezekiel 37:24), and they will "walk in My statutes". They will be given a "new heart" and a "new Spirit" per Ez 36:27-28. It is the "LORD" who will "gather all the nations against Jerusalem" (Zech 14:2-3) and the "LORD" who will "go forth and fight them". I expect that Iran/Persia and Russia are already in the waiting line, with Pakistan and China both supporting Iran. Keep in mind that all of these nations are nuclear powers. "Judah" will also fight "at Jerusalem" and gather the "wealth" of the "surrounding nations" (Zech 14:14) after the "nations" were struck down by "plague" of "their flesh will rot as they stand" and their "eyes will rot in the sockets" (Zech 14:12). Kind of sounds like radiation poisoning to me, but what do I know. I think you have more to worry about than one king, but apparently 7 kings (Daniel 2:35) & (Rev 17:9-14). As for 2 Samuel 12:10, the sword would not leave David's house because of adultery, the taking of another man's wife, not for allowing the Uriah to be killed. If you have looked with lust at another man's wife, I suppose that according to Yeshua in Matthew 5:28, you are guilty of the same crime. As you judge others, so shall you be judged. Not a wise move, especially using the wrong Commandment to make your conclusion. I would assume that you voted for the mentally deficient and corrupt Biden, and we are now in danger of being part of 2 wars with major powers, with a brain dead president. Good choice. We had no wars under Trump, and people could pay for their living expenses. Wrong choices have consequences. Jonah warned Nineveh 3 times, and the 3rd warning wound up with the destruction of Nineveh. People only get so many chances to make the right decisions. Following the false prophet Paul, is not a good decision.

2 Samuel 12:10​

“Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy

 

[2ndpillar]

I'm not going to spend time arguing about this. Many who seek an afterlife are blinded by it. Its what they want, and they won't take 'No' for an answer. Very often it is a cruel subject to bring up such as with parents who have deceased children. I think a lot of good could come from not believing in afterlife, but at the same time I'm not interested in crushing the life out of people just for the sake of pressing my opinion. I guess if I really got angry and careless I would, because I am cruel enough. Fruits of the spirit don't come easy. How ridiculous it seems to take Israel's resurrection and conflate it with individual resurrection, but it is far more ridiculous to a bereaved person to speak about death. We don't all communicate the same way. We aren't all the same kind of creature -- not really. Maybe we all use the same words, but internally we don't process them the same. Believe what you want about it, but there is no scripture support in my opinion

I don't know, Ezekiel 37, is about the bones of the house of Israel being commanded by the "Lord God" to "come out of your graves", and being given "My Spirit within you". I have to question if you have even read anything but the conclusions of the false prophet Paul. Not to mention Rev 20:4.

Ezekiel 37:11-14 11Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’ 12“Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13“Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. 14“I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it,” declares the LORD.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Talmud is written by ancestors, so there is a requirement to honor these ancestors if you believe in honoring ancestors. For example if you believe in obeying the two tablets, then you might be required to be familiar with the Talmud. How can you honor them if you don't read their Talmud? Maybe reading is also not enough and they have to consider the advice therein.

In Matthew I realize that Jesus complains that some traditions have been used to nullify Torah. I recognize that is possible, but it doesn't make Talmud evil. Jesus words must be taken as arguments not as pat, because Jews have a requirement to test words like his. They also don't consider Jesus to be anyone's ancestor at all. He has, after all, no physical descendants. They also can't simply take a miracle as proof that things are true, resurrection or not. Even if there were a RAW video of a resurrection it would at best be a reason to consider the arguments Jesus gave and not any reason to accept them. So if there are traditions which have nullified reasonable laws, then its reasonable for us to expect them to fix that. After all what they decide does kind of affect everyone else in the world, so we can at least squeak up a little if they are losing their minds. We can't have them tipping cows, but I can't see claiming that the Talmud is itself a bad thing. I think its great that they can have such a long running conversation with their ancestors.

If I were Japanese, or even Chinese, then ancestor worship is sometimes a thing. The Commandments say to honor thy parents, not worship them and consider them gods. Make sure they are obeyed while one is a child, and cared for when an adult, but when one gets married, one is to leave their parents (Mt 19:5), and have their own children, and then they become the parents, and often the parents become as children. They no longer have to be home by 10:00 P.M. as once dictated by their parents. Their role has changed. As for honoring one's parents, I had Catholic parents and therefore went to their church, but I never believed in their church. I was only required to go to church, not to be seduced by its idols. As old time Catholics, my parents didn't read the bible, they only put marriage and birth dates in it. As for Jews, you have a baker dozen of types of Jews. Except for places like New York, I am doubtful, that most Jews have a Talmud, or if they do, I am not sure which one they would use, for there is more than one Talmud, and they don't correspond. In the Midwest, you can't tell a Jew from the lady next door, except they might not use the same bowl for milk and meat, but you wouldn't know unless you were told not to use a certain bowl. That is not what the law requires, but the "scribes" cannot help themselves from adding layers of nonsense to inflate their egos.

Matthew 19:5
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don't know, Ezekiel 37, is about the bones of the house of Israel being commanded by the "Lord God" to "come out of your graves", and being given "My Spirit within you". I have to question if you have even read anything but the conclusions of the false prophet Paul. Not to mention Rev 20:4.

Keep bringing up Paul, but I will keep ignoring that. It is true that from time to time I forget you don't like Paul at all and mention something in the canon. Sorry about that. I grasp that we are not discussing Paul's letters. I get it.

Get used to it. The "LORD" will put "My servant David" as "king" over the recombined Judah and Ephraim (Ezekiel 37:24), and they will "walk in My statutes". They will be given a "new heart" and a "new Spirit" per Ez 36:27-28. It is the "LORD" who will "gather all the nations against Jerusalem" (Zech 14:2-3) and the "LORD" who will "go forth and fight them". I expect that Iran/Persia and Russia are already in the waiting line, with Pakistan and China both supporting Iran. Keep in mind that all of these nations are nuclear powers. "Judah" will also fight "at Jerusalem" and gather the "wealth" of the "surrounding nations" (Zech 14:14) after the "nations" were struck down by "plague" of "their flesh will rot as they stand" and their "eyes will rot in the sockets" (Zech 14:12). Kind of sounds like radiation poisoning to me, but what do I know. I think you have more to worry about than one king, but apparently 7 kings (Daniel 2:35) & (Rev 17:9-14). As for 2 Samuel 12:10, the sword would not leave David's house because of adultery, the taking of another man's wife, not for allowing the Uriah to be killed. If you have looked with lust at another man's wife, I suppose that according to Yeshua in Matthew 5:28, you are guilty of the same crime. As you judge others, so shall you be judged. Not a wise move, especially using the wrong Commandment to make your conclusion. I would assume that you voted for the mentally deficient and corrupt Biden, and we are now in danger of being part of 2 wars with major powers, with a brain dead president. Good choice. We had no wars under Trump, and people could pay for their living expenses. Wrong choices have consequences. Jonah warned Nineveh 3 times, and the 3rd warning wound up with the destruction of Nineveh. People only get so many chances to make the right decisions. Following the false prophet Paul, is not a good decision.

2 Samuel 12:10​

“Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy

You are telling me what I am thinking and guessing at who I vote for? Uh oh jedi mind powers!

Zechariah 14:12 does not sound like radiation poisoning. Radiation cooks the person internally. It doesn't rot you. You get blisters and horrible lesions on your skin and internally, and you get with this a lot of inflamation. You swell up and bloat and its very difficult to give you a proper wake afterwards. You die and then rot later, but there is a lot of stench.

It sounds more like a bacterial plague, possibly an insect born parasite.

Your interpretation of how the LORD fights seems very physical, like blowing up tanks with his mind and jamming radio signals and redirecting rockets. I think of it more as something else, like more long term and peaceful. The nations have always opposed the LORD on principle, so gathering them against Jerusalem does not require much besides the people just living as Jews. Nations don't like that. What is happening, now today, is the nations gathered against the LORD -- sort of, and the LORD is fighting the nations, too. Its not with bullets and swords, but it is a fight. The question is whether it requires the actual city Jerusalem is debatable. The name is 'City of Shalom', so all they have to do is live in peace and nations will take notice and start objecting. The nations have already been doing this to Jews for many centuries, and there is a war going on in that sense and has been. But what of Christians? To some degree Christians can claim that they have been peaceful, too. I don't know if there is an equivalent claim -- probably not.

If I were Japanese, or even Chinese, then ancestor worship is sometimes a thing. The Commandments say to honor thy parents, not worship them and consider them gods. Make sure they are obeyed while one is a child, and cared for when an adult, but when one gets married, one is to leave their parents (Mt 19:5), and have their own children, and then they become the parents, and often the parents become as children. They no longer have to be home by 10:00 P.M. as once dictated by their parents. Their role has changed. As for honoring one's parents, I had Catholic parents and therefore went to their church, but I never believed in their church. I was only required to go to church, not to be seduced by its idols. As old time Catholics, my parents didn't read the bible, they only put marriage and birth dates in it. As for Jews, you have a baker dozen of types of Jews. Except for places like New York, I am doubtful, that most Jews have a Talmud, or if they do, I am not sure which one they would use, for there is more than one Talmud, and they don't correspond. In the Midwest, you can't tell a Jew from the lady next door, except they might not use the same bowl for milk and meat, but you wouldn't know unless you were told not to use a certain bowl. That is not what the law requires, but the "scribes" cannot help themselves from adding layers of nonsense to inflate their egos.

Matthew 19:5
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Snappy argument. I like it. So then one could argue that Genesis 2:24 is a law which indicates that a man only honors his parents while he lives with them, until he gets married, maybe. I guess that is an idea to think about and revisit from time to time.

 

[2ndpillar]

Zechariah 14:12 does not sound like radiation poisoning. Radiation cooks the person internally. It doesn't rot you. You get blisters and horrible lesions on your skin and internally, and you get with this a lot of inflamation. You swell up and bloat and its very difficult to give you a proper wake afterwards. You die and then rot later, but there is a l

Have you ever read the book Hiroshima? A description in the book is a very close match to the verse from Zechariah 14:7. So close that the author of Zech 14:7 could sue for misappropriation of content, as in plagiarism. Symptoms are a product of circumstances. If you are too close to a nuclear blast, all that will be left is your shadow. The nuclear weapons most probably to be used are EMPs, but the brightness caused by a normal explosion can leave you blind, or if you are too close, simply melt your eyeballs. Most people with acute radiation poisoning die from organ failure. But short or long term blindness, and loss of skin, as in 3rd decree burns, is a prominent effect of intense radiation from a standard nuclear weapon if one is at the appropriate distance from the blast. As for Har-Magedon of Revelation 16:21, it has "hailstones" "from heaven" weighing "one hundred pounds", which fits the weight of individual multiple head war heads on modern ICBMs. Whereas the "hail" "plague" was "severe". Actual hail weighing 100 pounds each, has a tendency to kill immediately, but then again, this is Revelation, and it uses imagery. But never mind, if a EMP is used, the purpose is to knock out the electric system, which knocks out supply on demand, with no credit card processing, or motors to pump gas, with some modern day car computer failures, leaving some stranded on the road, with no supply chain to get new computer chips. Riots will start within 3 days, and a plurality of people (Rev 8) will be dead in 90 days according to statisticians. As for Jerusalem, it is a law that to build a home, one must have a fallout shelter.

American Standard Version Zech 14:12
And this shall be the plague wherewith Jehovah will smite all the peoples that have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their sockets, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[2ndpillar]

Snappy argument. I like it. So then one could argue that Genesis 2:24 is a law which indicates that a man only honors his parents while he lives with them, until he gets married, maybe. I guess that is an idea to think about and revisit from time t

A man must honor his parents until they die. One does not honor one's physical parents by following the lies of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8), the Talmud. You can read it, as I have read Paul, but it helps no one to actually believe it is anything but the traditions of men. If one is "born of God", they are a child of God, and "His seed abides in him" (1 John 3:9), and the 1st Commandment is to have no other "gods before me". Yet, you must make sure your parents are fed and housed until they die, to the best of one's ability, or look forward to a less than long unblessed life. My neighbor's granddaughter is now getting into the hard to manage stage, and I think he is ready to start drinking more beer with the subsequent shorter life, as an escape plan. A shorter life can be an escape. He is 75, so his parents are already dead. All he can do is dishonor their memory, yet he seems to be able to handle the extra beers. The granddaughter is a product of her poor over processed diet, with a huge influx of TicTok. That is a curse of modern day America and their Progressive culture, whereas the "experts"/elites/scribes, run the show.