Can you demonstrate that playing sports is meaningless?

[Mr. Skittles]

This discussion thread is a spin off from the "American exceptionalism" thread so instead of derailing the thread discussing sports I wanted to discuss it here. Apparently there were several comments stating that sports requiring a ball whether kicked, thrown, or carried is.meaningless and trivial and that going to events are too meaningless and trivial. There was also a comment regarding contact sports and that how "its pathetic that our culture cheers on these obviously aggressive activities."

Now with that being said I want to give these same individuals the opportunity to demonstrate deductively or otherwise, how sports and the participation in sporting events is meaningless and trivial.

As far as my view I admit I am biased because not only am I a fan of contact sports I've also participated it so I know the first experience that many athletes feel when it comes to engaging in sports, only difference is I never got paid for it. I believe for those that are oppose to these events they need to define what is meaningful and what is trivial. Because for many athletes and former athletes like myself, the joy of playing competitively, strategizing on how to defeat our opponent and in a utilitarian way, sacrificing ourselves for the greater good of the team (think baseball and a runner stealing base so his teammate can score).

Contact sports especially like American football are all means of healthy aggression. Sure people get hurt and some get lifelong injuries but as professional athletes these are necessary risks especially if these individuals compete at the high levels. What is a necessary risk? Well in order to participate in these professional athletic activities the conditions of making large sums of money and/or being among a franchise and legendary tradition requires all people to be aware that at such a high level you can get hurt. Professional soccer players, volleyball players, basketball players etc accept this reality. Some of you guys think just because these players get x amount of money that these guys don't have a rigorous regimen that requires them to train harder than the common exercise guru. These athletes are better trained than any RF forum 10000 times over which is why they are professional athletes who provide an entertaining product. I mean we all have different taste but to say one sporting event is meaningless and another is worthy is an absurd notion. We all have varying interest. How can a football player say chess is meaningless? Rather than saying such and such sport is meaningless perhaps your better off saying it just doesn't interest you.

 

[McBell]

Seems to me that it depends entirely upon the context in which the comment is made.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

In the end, it's grown men chasing balls around, something ultimately trivial and meaningless.

It is trivial and meaningless, but due to the fact of how much these people get paid for throwing, hitting, and kicking balls around. They are constantly thinking they do not get paid enough, even though it is literally millions more than the average person who does more for society than provide a few hours of entertainment.

Nope, still grown men chasing balls around. Still ultimately trivial and meaningless, regardless of how much undue worship, attention and importance is placed upon it.




Well, yeah, no **** the same can be said of those things, considering they too are ultimately grown mean chasing balls around.

Here was some of the comments from the last thread so you get an idea of the context.

 

[McBell]

Here was some of the comments from the last thread so you get an idea of the context.

The meaningfulness (or lack of) of sports depends entirely upon what it is being compared to.

Since you have not presented the context that shows what playing sports is being compared to...

 

[Mr. Skittles]

The meaningfulness (or lack of) of sports depends entirely upon what it is being compared to.

Since you have not presented the context that shows what playing sports is being compared to...

Do I need to make a comparison on the context? If someone says playing sports is meaningless the burden of proof is on the individual making the comment. Why do I need to make a comparison? Which is why I supplied the quotes. These individuals made the comment that sports is meaningless and trivial

 

[Sir Doom]

All I can think of is the general position of existential nihilism that suggests that nothing has any meaning at all. By extension this would include sports as well, though it doesn't do much good to single sports out from this point of view.

Then again I don't side with existential nihilism, anyway. I think it's more like the opposite. Everything has meaning. We assign it. Meaning is ours to command. Thus, sporting events and those that participate in them being the immensely popular things that they are, must qualify as meaningful.

Of course, this basically allows anyone to assign meaning as they see fit, so those that think sports are meaningless are essentially just as right as us that think otherwise. Luckily this sort of subjective assignment is not without reason, and the question as to why they would assign sports as meaningless is still on the table.

I happen to love sports. I don't see what else could provide meaning beyond that. Its something I enjoy. Its something many of my fellow humans enjoy. This is meaning.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

All I can think of is the general position of existential nihilism that suggests that nothing has any meaning at all. By extension this would include sports as well, though it doesn't do much good to single sports out from this point of view.

Then again I don't side with existential nihilism, anyway. I think it's more like the opposite. Everything has meaning. We assign it. Meaning is ours to command. Thus, sporting events and those that participate in them being the immensely popular things that they are, must qualify as meaningful.

Of course, this basically allows anyone to assign meaning as they see fit, so those that think sports are meaningless are essentially just as right as us that think otherwise. Luckily this sort of subjective assignment is not without reason, and the question as to why they would assign sports as meaningless is still on the table.

I happen to love sports. I don't see what else could provide meaning beyond that. Its something I enjoy. Its something many of my fellow humans enjoy. This is meaning.

Indeed and if their position was based on existential nihilism I would be able to understand, but if their position of sports being meaningless and trivial based on the used object (basketball, football, golf ball etc) and/or based on how much a player makes is a weak argument.

 

[McBell]

Do I need to make a comparison on the context?

The context needs to include what it is being compared to or it is still out of context.

If someone says playing sports is meaningless the burden of proof is on the individual making the comment.

If someone is to argue against the statement that sports are meaningless and or wants other peoples opinions of the comment,, then they need to present the context in which the coment was stated in, not just copy and paste the comments.

Why do I need to make a comparison?

You do not need to make the comparison.
You do however, need to present the context (not just the quotes where it was stated).
The comparison is in the context, which you have not yet presented.

Which is why I supplied the quotes.

Merely showing that the comment was made is not enough.
You need to present the context as well.

These individuals made the comment that sports is meaningless and trivial

Compared to what?

 

[Caladan]

I believe that the distinction is between the art of sport itself and the consumerism culture around sport.

 

[waitasec]

I believe that the distinction is between the art of sport itself and the consumerism culture around sport.

this...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's not entirely worthless. Sports have been apart of society for a very long time, and having a team to root for is another way for people to bond. It can even help many people obtain a higher education via sports scholarships.
But in our society, athletes are way over paid, are considered more important than what they actually are, they provide very little for society, and in football especially many of the players are intentionally made unhealthily overweight, abuse and damage their bodies, and people cheer them on even though they are shortening their life spans and in many cases causing mild and up to severe damage to their brains. There are also the other health problems, such as knee problems, that come from being so heavy. It also seems concussions are viewed as more of a badge of honor, rather than a potentially serious health hazard, especially when one has multiple concussions. But nobody sees that because of the lights, the glamor, and the fame of being paid millions of dollars to contribute nothing of significance to society just to chase after and throw a ball.
My problem with the mainstream idea of sports, is that athletes are not any better than anyone else, and they really shouldn't be crying that they aren't making enough, especially since they contribute very little of value towards society. I also see a very serious problem with how sports programs in schools tends to drain funds from other extra curricular and enrichment activities, such as art. I also find it foolish that some athletes for some sports will go through, such as making themselves weigh over 300 pounds. I also view the athleticism as being hurt greatly as technology improves the equipment, which tends to make athletes look better. I say for the Olympics they use sticks and stones rather than precision made equipment.

 

[Vinayaka]

I was a mid-teen volleyball coach for years. It was great exercise and great for human development, because it needed teamwork more than many other sports. It was also known as a 'polite' sport in that there was little tolerance of rude behaviour. I'd like to think that some of the players, and even the poor old coach gained some human character from participation. Co-operation, sportsmanship, exercise, having fun, were all things that could be carried into adult life for these kids.

Hockey, in contrast, at least in many areas here in Canada, seemed to bring out the worst in kids, in parents, and I'm really not sure if it made them better people. So a whole lot depends on the context. Take coaching in itself ... there were good role models, and then there were horrible coaches too.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It's not entirely worthless. Sports have been apart of society for a very long time, and having a team to root for is another way for people to bond. It can even help many people obtain a higher education via sports scholarships.
But in our society, athletes are way over paid, are considered more important than what they actually are, they provide very little for society, and in football especially many of the players are intentionally made unhealthily overweight, abuse and damage their bodies, and people cheer them on even though they are shortening their life spans and in many cases causing mild and up to severe damage to their brains. There are also the other health problems, such as knee problems, that come from being so heavy. It also seems concussions are viewed as more of a badge of honor, rather than a potentially serious health hazard, especially when one has multiple concussions. But nobody sees that because of the lights, the glamor, and the fame of being paid millions of dollars to contribute nothing of significance to society just to chase after and throw a ball.
My problem with the mainstream idea of sports, is that athletes are not any better than anyone else, and they really shouldn't be crying that they aren't making enough, especially since they contribute very little of value towards society. I also see a very serious problem with how sports programs in schools tends to drain funds from other extra curricular and enrichment activities, such as art. I also find it foolish that some athletes for some sports will go through, such as making themselves weigh over 300 pounds. I also view the athleticism as being hurt greatly as technology improves the equipment, which tends to make athletes look better. I say for the Olympics they use sticks and stones rather than precision made equipment.

I have a teensy weensy fantasy where public schools around the nation were to engage in annual productions of Swan Lake or the Nutcracker ballet, and where this is one of the many ways the schools make money, provide an atmosphere of working together for a shared vision, and to perpetuate the virtues of artistry (and hence carry the array of life skills from performance art into the rest of the lives).

It's just a little fantasy I have. Rather than so much of the community's money going toward the sports teams, just cut into it to promote the arts alongside it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I have a teensy weensy fantasy where public schools around the nation were to engage in annual productions of Swan Lake or the Nutcracker ballet, and where this is one of the many ways the schools make money, provide an atmosphere of working together for a shared vision, and to perpetuate the virtues of artistry (and hence carry the array of life skills from performance art into the rest of the lives).

The high school where I went had a director that could barely do a Neil Simon play, and she had a very nasty habit of casting her nephew and his friends for lead roles, even though they could not say lines in a comedy in a way that made them funny without laughing themselves. The college I'm at has a problem with casting people who are no where near off-script by opening night or they quit the production so close to opening that only someone who is on speed or has a high capacity for memorization can be ready by opening. Once I got stuck on stage with someone going "uuuuuhhhhhh........uhhhmmmmmmm......." and making it very obvious that she was getting frustrated because she didn't know her lines, and to make things worse one guy who was trying to whisper her lines to her was whispering them so loudly people in the front row could hear him.
Yeah, I'm definitely going back to working with amateur troupes that have a reputation to live up to. The only thing going against me is the frequency of musicals, and I have had zero voice training or lessons. I've also not had any acting lessons or training, but if I were in a musical people would pay for me to not attempt to sing.
But just hearing your idea makes me want to run a school just to take funds away from sports just to build up an art department that will have even regular theatre attendees going.

 

[Sunstone]

Things are as meaningful to you as you want to make them.

 

[Father Heathen]

I believe that the distinction is between the art of sport itself and the consumerism culture around sport.

:clap

 

[Awoon]

Mountain climbing and racing cars are sports. Everything Else are games.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

It's not entirely worthless. Sports have been apart of society for a very long time, and having a team to root for is another way for people to bond. It can even help many people obtain a higher education via sports scholarships.
But in our society, athletes are way over paid, are considered more important than what they actually are, they provide very little for society, and in football especially many of the players are intentionally made unhealthily overweight, abuse and damage their bodies, and people cheer them on even though they are shortening their life spans and in many cases causing mild and up to severe damage to their brains. There are also the other health problems, such as knee problems, that come from being so heavy. It also seems concussions are viewed as more of a badge of honor, rather than a potentially serious health hazard, especially when one has multiple concussions. But nobody sees that because of the lights, the glamor, and the fame of being paid millions of dollars to contribute nothing of significance to society just to chase after and throw a ball.
My problem with the mainstream idea of sports, is that athletes are not any better than anyone else, and they really shouldn't be crying that they aren't making enough, especially since they contribute very little of value towards society. I also see a very serious problem with how sports programs in schools tends to drain funds from other extra curricular and enrichment activities, such as art. I also find it foolish that some athletes for some sports will go through, such as making themselves weigh over 300 pounds. I also view the athleticism as being hurt greatly as technology improves the equipment, which tends to make athletes look better. I say for the Olympics they use sticks and stones rather than precision made equipment.

How are athletes overpaid?

Every athlete is not paid the same and the scale at which athletes are paid depends on the talent of the athlete. For example a guy like Kobe Bryant is getting paid over $80 million over three years. Kobe in a lot of ways is comparable to Jordan. He has 5 rings, is an All-Star, scored the second highest points in a single game (Wilt Chamberlain). Kobe brings fans to the game which increases revenue for the stadium and the Lakers organization. Kobe benefits everyone all around. So your telling me if Kobe can generate over tens of billions of dollars over his career he is considered overpaid?

The only way you can say athletes are overpaid is if these athletes are not producing revenue nor are being productive for their team.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

Mountain climbing and racing cars are sports. Everything Else are games.

I disagree

 

[Mr. Skittles]

:clap

Still hiding behind other peoples comment? This is your opportunity to actually display a coherent piece of argumentative philosophy