SearchingForGod
Member
Do you think it would be possible to be a Catholic while having more liberal leanings such as towards abortion and homosexuality?
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Can you be a Catholic and...
- Thread starter SearchingForGod
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Sure, just a sinning Catholic. Abortion is viewed as murder in the Catholic Church. Gay sex acts are also forbidden.
Not trying to scare you away, but that is what the Church teaches. I, myself, am pansexual and a transsexual man who is a Catholic. I grapple with the Church's teachings on homosexuality and hope that the Church eventually allows for monogamous gay relationships. They would sooner change on that than they would on abortion, though. Abortions can only be allowed for certain circumstances where abortion isn't the goal of a procedure, such as if a woman has to have her uterus removed to save her life and the baby dies inadvertently. That's how I understand it.
Not trying to scare you away, but that is what the Church teaches. I, myself, am pansexual and a transsexual man who is a Catholic. I grapple with the Church's teachings on homosexuality and hope that the Church eventually allows for monogamous gay relationships. They would sooner change on that than they would on abortion, though. Abortions can only be allowed for certain circumstances where abortion isn't the goal of a procedure, such as if a woman has to have her uterus removed to save her life and the baby dies inadvertently. That's how I understand it.
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Abortion is very controversial. Some Catholics allow that a woman has rights to abortion under certain conditions. Various Catholic groups have opinions on it. The Roman church is opposed to abortion officially and also opposes sexual contraceptives. In the extreme cases some people are very superstitious about it and consider it murder to masturbate. Most are somewhere between that extreme and pro-choice.
Homosexuality does not produce offspring, so it is opposed traditionally on the same grounds as contraceptives. The traditional church wants to make lots of civilized babies. The more civilized babies there are the more civilized the world is. On the other hand the church allows single individuals to go into convents and monasteries provided they work their tails off civilizing the world. Either way the traditional church wants you to be productive.
Biblically many lay people are confused about why homosexuality is opposed. Some believe sex is evil. For example Saint Jerome (an ancient Catholic author) thinks that sex is evil. Jerome is unfortunately a widely read idiot. Since even regular sex is sometimes considered to be evil, anything not used for reproduction might be considered morbidly sinful by some people. Mind you not everybody thinks this way, because people range in their understanding. Jerome was a monk who didn't get out much. He's a terrific example of Book Knowledge without Practical Experience.
I had a pastor once who thought that any sex was sinful, even in marriage, if you could not look your partner in the face at the same time. That was their arbitrary standard. They weren't members of a Catholic Church, however their reasoning is pretty common wherever you go. There's always one or two that focus on 'Do not taste. Do not touch.' instead of focusing on getting things done. There are also always people who want to make a fuss to watch all the other people scurry about in reaction.
Homosexuality does not produce offspring, so it is opposed traditionally on the same grounds as contraceptives. The traditional church wants to make lots of civilized babies. The more civilized babies there are the more civilized the world is. On the other hand the church allows single individuals to go into convents and monasteries provided they work their tails off civilizing the world. Either way the traditional church wants you to be productive.
Biblically many lay people are confused about why homosexuality is opposed. Some believe sex is evil. For example Saint Jerome (an ancient Catholic author) thinks that sex is evil. Jerome is unfortunately a widely read idiot. Since even regular sex is sometimes considered to be evil, anything not used for reproduction might be considered morbidly sinful by some people. Mind you not everybody thinks this way, because people range in their understanding. Jerome was a monk who didn't get out much. He's a terrific example of Book Knowledge without Practical Experience.
I had a pastor once who thought that any sex was sinful, even in marriage, if you could not look your partner in the face at the same time. That was their arbitrary standard. They weren't members of a Catholic Church, however their reasoning is pretty common wherever you go. There's always one or two that focus on 'Do not taste. Do not touch.' instead of focusing on getting things done. There are also always people who want to make a fuss to watch all the other people scurry about in reaction.
If you read the Catechism completely and not leave out anything the Roman Church requires that the believers only are saved if the sincerely follow the teachings and and the requirement of the obedience to the teaching of the Catechism. One may fall short, but it is the sincerity of the commitment of the individual that determines one's salvation. The final decision remains with God not the Roman Church.
If you follow the words of Jesus, then it does not reflect the view you propose, Maybe if cut up and make your own edited NT like Thomas Jefferson did.
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I believe God is a liberal, and more female. Almost all the Christian denominations teach A God that is conservative, often rigidly conservative. That doesn't make any sense to me, I have gone my own way, independent of any Christian denomination, but still considering myself a Christian in that I consider myself a follower of Jesus' teachings, not a follower of Jesus as God, and definitely not a follower of Paul.
God is unknowable and undefinable, and not a follower of the fallible human view of Jesus nor your selective view (looking for the shoes that fit comfortably) rejecting Paul, whom is primary founder of the nature and belief of Christianity to making up your own version of Christianity tripping through fields of daisies and rainbows, and cut and past a version of the NT to suit yourself like Thomas Jefferson did.
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What does this have to do with the OP's question?
That's nice but it's not answering the OP's question.
I would say attend the church you feel most comfortable with, and don't be afraid to have your own understandings that are not the same as the churches official position. Churches are man made institutions, not really God made. IMHO I think if you believe the Churches official position is God's position, you are making a big mistake, God is so much greater than the Church.
You can be opposed to abortion and gay marriage on religious grounds, while also being for them on Constitutional grounds, and suffer no cognitive dissonance.
Personally, despite what the Church teaches (and I acquiesce to the teachings of the Church), I see no reason why the Church's morals should be legislated as law and forced upon all people, including non-Catholics and non-Orthodox, to follow.
More in harmony with the Baha'i Faith and Unitarian Universalism.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Sure. The Vatican has been wrong about a plethora of things throughout its history. And, they have been guilty of serious crimes against humanity. So, don't let them dictate anything when it comes to who is welcome in the Church.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The simple answer is yes, you do.
The church has the role of teaching what it thinks is right, but it is up to the congregant to decide which way (s)he will go since it is the congregant, not the church, that will be judged in the final analysis.
Imagine a Roman traffic cop standing at an intersection whereas many drivers may ignore him, some may pay scant attention to him, but some others will pay close attention. If there's no accident, there's no problem; but if there is one, the cop can help sort out who was at fault and what should be done about it.
An excellent book written from a Catholic perspective that deals with this is "Follow Your (Informed) Conscience", and the above is pretty much the gist of it.
This a highly idealistic, personal and unrealistic view of what the Roman Church teaches concerning Revelation, Salvation, and the obligations of the faithful to the 'One and only True Church, the Roman Church.'
Need sources (?) to go beyond this as simply your own personal opinion as to the nature of Salvation and the Roman Church.
The title 'Catholic' is a claim of being the universal church of the universal Revelation of Jesus Christ. I identify with Christianity, the diverse churches, and other ancient religions as reflecting the evolving progressive spiritual nature of humanity. I would consider no church nor religion 'Catholic' nor universal in and of itself including the Baha'i Faith. The nature of spiritual and physical existence is 'universal' and eternal beyond the comprehension of human capability.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
But ya gotta remember that this label was coined in the 2nd century by the apostolic church that saw itself as being the only true church. Today it doesn't make much sense if taken literally.