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Can we change our mind about what we believe?

joelr

Well-Known Member
Well, I don't know what we are discussing then..
No, there are no conclusions about any god. Why do you think there are hundreds of sects in dozens of religions?
And just the Bible alone changes theology radically 3 times, the Mesopotamian era, Persian era, Greek era. Then new theology comes in way later with Agustine and Aquinas.



You keep telling me everything I believe is fiction etc. etc.
I'm saying the evidence strongly suggests it's all fiction.

No evidence of anything supernatural confirmed, no God, no gods, all religions are re-made myths with slight upgrades, we even see the main sources of the myth are the nations that occupied their land and the ideas were trending in all local religions.
We see forgeries all over the place, false stories, it's all made up. Over and over.
Same with the Quran, we have early versions, codex versions, "Islam has it’s own mythology that looks to be a product of it’s time in Arabia, has a lot of the same poetic patterns, scholars have unpacked that."

"As you would expect it has congruence with what was prior. Zoroastrianism was a big influence and a predecessor. We see the trajectory of Persian and Arabic religion coming into that time period and producing the Quran."

The fundamentalist experts don't even agree.

Yes, it definitely looks to be fiction when it comes to supernatural things.

And the people who bother to get PhD in the history all seem to agree. Only believers in each religion find their particular religion to be the true one. YET, this tells us humans have massive confirmation bias when it comes to these types of beliefs.


Why would I not say what the evidence tells me?
 

Marwan

*banned*
I don't believe, I fully know that God exists.

I look away in terror and again in terror and again in terror from your atheism and everything about it.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
I'm saying the evidence strongly suggests it's all fiction.
..in your opinion, and the opinion of those that you follow i.e. the academics in a certain field

It almost seems as if you worship them .. ;)

We see forgeries all over the place, false stories, it's all made up..
Lots of things are made up .. we all believe different things, depending on where we live etc. etc.

The fundamentalist experts don't even agree..
..which is what I expect .. as we are tribal in nature, and have differing intentions.

And the people who bother to get PhD in the history all seem to agree..
I doubt it .. in some specialised fields, then more than likely.

Only believers in each religion find their particular religion to be the true one..
It is a fallacy to then deduce that it's all made up.
The vast majority of the global population all believe in the same ONE GOD!!
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
..in your opinion, and the opinion of those that you follow i.e. the academics in a certain field
The academics in all. fields related to understanding if it is fiction or real. Historical studies and archaeology give us the most accurate picture of the past as possible. In fact, you completely trust them with Hinduism, Greek religions, and every other mythology/religion.

Is it a coincidence here you cannot accept their findings or is it you formed a belief in a story and now use confirmation bias to dictate any beliefs that don't support it. Even though these are experts in a very difficult field. And the findings are very clear. Even the Quran presents as nothing but a product of it's time.





It almost seems as if you worship them .. ;)
That is gaslighting. I'm doing the work rather than make assumptions and believe stories people in a group tell me. It's a cult tactic to say things like "oh do you worship the scholars.....?"

No, it's how we learn what is true. How many times do you think Einstein, Minkowski, Shrodinger, Heisenburg and Bohr and Planck come up when discussing the foundations of modern physics? A lot. When someone learns physics from that era do people say stupid things to them like "oh what do you worship Einstein...?",

OR do they realize they are serious in learning the foundations of early quantum physics?

Religious fundamentalists have this way of making subtle remarks against learning knowledge because they know it doesn't support their folk tales. Back in the day learning was illegal and people were skeptical, they said God taught you all you needed to know in the Bible, don't trust critical thinking. The early church forbid people even reading scripture themselves.
Hmmmm, wonder why?







Lots of things are made up .. we all believe different things, depending on where we live etc. etc.
No I don't care where you live, forgeries and forgeries, period. There are many ways we know what the forgeries are. The best scholarship on this and the OT is Ehrmans Forgery and Counterforgery. It's peer-reviewed and sourced and highly respected by his peers.

Forgery and Counterforgery is the first comprehensive study of early Christian pseudepigrapha ever produced in English. In it, Ehrman argues that ancient critics--pagan, Jewish, and Christian--understood false authorial claims to be a form of literary deceit, and thus forgeries. Ehrman considers the extent of the phenomenon, the "intention" and motivations of ancient Greek, Roman, and Jewish forgers, and reactions to their work once detected. He also assesses the criteria ancient critics applied to expose forgeries and the techniques forgers used to avoid detection. With the wider practices of the ancient world as backdrop, Ehrman then focuses on early Christian polemics, as various Christian authors forged documents in order to lend their ideas a veneer of authority in literary battles waged with pagans, Jews, and, most importantly, with one another in internecine disputes over doctrine and practice. In some instances a forger directed his work against views found in another forgery, creating thereby a "counter-forgery." Ehrman's evaluation of polemical forgeries starts with those of the New Testament (nearly half of whose books make a false authorial claim) up through the Pseudo-Ignatian epistles and the Apostolic Constitutions at the end of the fourth century.




..which is what I expect .. as we are tribal in nature, and have differing intentions.








I doubt it .. in some specialised fields, then more than likely.
You doubt what? All Biblical historians are generally in consensus. They find apologetics to be simply incorrect, made up history and lies.
They all say the same thing basically. It's not real. The supernatural stuff is made up.

I gave you Richard Millers take on the seminar he attended on the Quran while getting his PhD, it was a several week course. It's a myth.



Islam has it’s own mythology that looks to be a product of it’s time in Arabia, has a lot of the same poetic patterns, scholars have unpacked that. In the Christian West we are allowed to do critical-history on Christianity but Islam is hard to study because it’s still taboo. In the Islamic world that type of study is modulated quite a bit.


As you would expect it has congruence with what was prior. Zoroastrianism was a big influence and a predecessor. We see the trajectory of Persian and Arabic religion coming into that time period and producing the Quran.




It is a fallacy to then deduce that it's all made up.
Which fallacy?


Also I never said it's all made up. There is some history in scripture. Muhammad was a real person. The supernatural stories are how people relayed information back then.
The evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates it's not real, in many ways.



The vast majority of the global population all believe in the same ONE GOD!!
No they don't.

FIRST, that actually IS A FALLACY. Appeal to popularity.

The Christians are 1/3 of all believers. A huge amount of them believe in a trinity God and Jesus also being god.
Almost all of them believe Jesus and Yahweh are both god.
So that is different.
Just because Islam took the christian God and the theology that Aquinas added, which is GREEK PHILOSOPHY, not Christian, its Greek.
Christians just act as if it isn't taken from Plato, same with Islam.

Another 1/3 of all believers are Hindu. The supreme God is Brahman in most Hindu sects, sometimes it's Vishnu. Neither are the god you are talking about at all. Brahman is completely different.


Islam believes god is singular and cannot be a trinity, so that is at odds with billions of Christians.

The OT and NT are myths, added onto from Mesopotamia, Persia, Greek sources and ideas. No actual deity ever came down and explained to people this information. We see new ideas only after influence from another nation.

So there is no such thing as "one God".

Zero Christians or Hindu believe an angel came to Muhammad, 2/3 of all religious believers.

You do not believe the same and even if you did it does not make it true. If the entire world becomes Mormon does that make it true?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Ohhhhh-hh, yes they do! :)
The One God of Abraham.
It does usually end with denial, I see we have gotten there.

First, 1/3 of all believers are Hindu or a non-Abrahamic religion. Brahman is not Yahweh.

It's still an appeal to popularity and a huge fallacy, which you know but now are past caring about logic, which says everything in a nutshell.

Even worse is there isn't just one "god of Abraham".

Abraham himself is a literary creation, which many religious myths do, create a founding person who was around before most other followers.
Usually the name will be the function and is the case here as Abraham means "father of a multitude" in Hebrew.

Most scholars view the patriarchal age, along with the Exodus and the period of the biblical judges, as a late literary construct that does not relate to any particular historical era,[10] and after a century of exhaustive archaeological investigation, no evidence has been found for a historical Abraham.[11] It is largely concluded that the Torah, the series of books that includes Genesis, was composed during the early Persian period, c. 500 BC, as a result of tensions between Jewish landowners who had stayed in Judah during the Babylonian captivity and traced their right to the land through their "father Abraham", and the returning exiles who based their counterclaim on Moses and the Exodus tradition of the Israelites.[1

The god in this myth is never one single idea. We have discussed the early beliefs, the 2nd Temple Persian influence, the Greek influence and then the Graeco-Roman influence in later theologians.
It changed as well in Islam as you don't have demigods or a trinity. Islam reverted back to an earlier idea before the Persian influence because you don't have an expected messiah.
But you do have the Hellenistic concept of souls and going right to an afterlife.

I know you will claim that all other concepts are somehow corrupt and your version is the correct one, every single sect and religion in this line each believes they have stumbled onto the actual correct version.
But I still cannot get any evidence in favor of any version.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Ohhhhh-hh, yes they do! :)
The One God of Abraham.
Oh yeah, Thomas Thompson, I forgot about his work, I have to get back to him.

Historicity​


In the early and middle 20th century, leading archaeologists such as William F. Albright and G. Ernest Wright and biblical scholars such as Albrecht Alt and John Bright believed that the patriarchs and matriarchs were either real individuals or believable composites of people who lived in the "patriarchal age", the 2nd millennium BCE.[61] But, in the 1970s, new arguments concerning Israel's past and the biblical texts challenged these views; these arguments can be found in Thomas L. Thompson's The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives (1974),[62] and John Van Seters' Abraham in History and Tradition (1975).[63] Thompson, a literary scholar, based his argument on archaeology and ancient texts. His thesis centered on the lack of compelling evidence that the patriarchs lived in the 2nd millennium BCE, and noted how certain biblical texts reflected first millennium conditions and concerns. Van Seters examined the patriarchal stories and argued that their names, social milieu, and messages strongly suggested that they were Iron Age creations.[64] Van Seters' and Thompson's works were a paradigm shift in biblical scholarship and archaeology, which gradually led scholars to no longer consider the patriarchal narratives as historical.[65] Some conservative scholars attempted to defend the Patriarchal narratives in the following years, but this has not found acceptance among scholars.[66][67] By the beginning of the 21st century, archaeologists had stopped trying to recover any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible historical figures.[68]

Thompson wrote this book - Thomas L. Thompson's The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives (1974)

it was his thesis and his mentor who was to do the ratification was a Catholic Cardinal. The Cardinal was so upset he refused to accept his work and Thompson had to move to Canada to get work.
Eventually it was accepted and praised as outstanding work by experts who were not non-historian religious fundamentalists and actually knew how to evaluate work without a massive bias.
He revolutionized the field along with Van Seters because before this people were not in the habit of looking into things like this, questioning the validity of the OT.
It was done and has been for the last 400 years but slowly. The first historians were Rabbi who started to notice Moses probably didn't write everything that was credited to him. Such as the part where it says Moses is the most modest man ever, or things he did after he died or other things that don't make sense because he would have to be in 2 places at once.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member

joelr

Well-Known Member
Christianity (31.1%)
Islam (24.9%)
Irreligion (15.6%)
Hinduism (15.2%)
Buddhism (6.6%)
Folk religions (5.6%)
Other religions (1%)
Major_religious_groups - Wikipedia
You should follow Pewreasearch.org for stats but this is close.

15.2% Hindu, 6.6 Buddhist, Folk religions which include Sikh and many smaller Eastern religions 5.6%, and other religions 1%, that is 28.4 %

Billions of people. Why would you bother to provide a list that basically confirms that close to 1/3 of all believers are not affiliated with the Abrahamic religions? So it's basically true. And you just provided a breakdown of the massive fallacy you employed and cannot refute. This just makes it worse because you are still on the point?

An appeal to popularity doesn't make something true? It's a Fallacy?


Even worse, even if EVERY SINGLE religious person was an Abrahamic believer that doesn't make it true. What if everyone was a Mormon, does that mean Mormonism would be true.
For millenia, 5000 BCE, 4000 BCE, 3000 BCE, 2000 BCE, the ENTIRE WORLD did not believe in any of the Abrahamic religions, they believed in completely different religions. Does that mean those religions were true? No. Your point is absurd.

And just because some Arab writers came up with a myth that tacked on to Judaism, you are not part of Judiasm or Christianty. You hold completely different beliefs.
If a new religion used Islam as a starting point but said Muhammad was actually an angel, that would not be Islam. They could say "it's the god of Abraham though....", yes it's new fiction with that god and all different beliefs and interpretation. Islam would not consider them valid. Christians and Jewish religions do not consider Islam real. You are you own group, 24.9 %.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups
Well, you would say that .. because you don't believe in G-d.
No it's because I actually read other things besides the Quran. I understand what Yahweh was considered to be in the early period and all other periods and where the information came from. And it's different in different times.

There is no such thing as "belief in God". What that means changes depending on the religion and the individual. Even today many Christians will say they believe in the Christian god but the OT is just myth, as well as anything in the NT they find unattractive. They just believe in their own personal version without any of the dogma. None of this is the same. Your denial of facts doesn't matter. God is a concept that is bits and pieces of theology from different cultures spanning 2000 years. And it's radically different for many people, even in Abrahamic religions.

Which shows it's a concept made up and continuously upgraded by people.

You also have some version that is far different than many Christians and Jews. You just assume what you were taught is the actual truth. How convenient. I don't care about claims, I'm interested in evidence and things that are true.

I believe in things that are sufficiently justified to hold beliefs in. But it has no impact on what I'm saying about historical knowledge of the creation of what god is and what religions added what. A lack of belief doesn't hinder my ability to learn facts about history.

So I "say that" because that is what the evidence presents. Not because of god beliefs. It seems like the belief IN GOD is the one that prevents people from learning anything other than claims and apologetics and making up weird guesses about history to rescue their beliefs.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
You should follow Pewreasearch.org for stats but this is close.

15.2% Hindu, 6.6 Buddhist, Folk religions which include Sikh and many smaller Eastern religions 5.6%, and other religions 1%, that is 28.4 %

Billions of people. Why would you bother to provide a list that basically confirms that close to 1/3 of all believers are not affiliated with the Abrahamic religions?
..because you started talking about it..
..and over 50% of the world's pop. believe in the One God of Abraham.
..which trumps your 1/3 ;)


An appeal to popularity doesn't make something true? It's a Fallacy?
I never said that's what makes it true. It's just that it's a serious belief.

What if everyone was a Mormon, does that mean Mormonism would be true.
..but they aren't :D

There is no such thing as "belief in God". What that means changes depending on the religion and the individual..
..divide & rule, eh?

You also have some version that is far different than many Christians and Jews. You just assume what you were taught is the actual truth..
I follow what I consider to be logical about "son of G-d" and what-have-you.
..and we cannot know everything about God .. what anybody knows is a mere drop in the ocean.

I believe in things that are sufficiently justified to hold beliefs in..
Seeing is believing, eh? What we see now, is not necessarily all there is..
..and one might throw away the baby with the bathwater, if they aren't careful.
 

Echogem222

Active Member
Can we change our mind about what we believe?

@PureX said that one CAN change their mind, but they won't because they don't want to deny their current understanding of 'what is'. #523

I disagree. One CAN change their mind, and they sometimes do, if they get new information that causes them to change their mind. However, if they don't change their mind, it is because they truly believe that what they believe is true according to their current understanding. It is not that they won’t change their mind, as if they are stubbornly refusing to change their mind, it is that they have no reason to change their mind.

Why should anyone deny that what they believe is true?

Conversely, why should anyone accept any belief as true if they don’t believe it is true?

Why should atheists accept that God exists when they see no evidence for God’s existence?

I do not think that atheists are stubbornly refusing to believe in God. I take them at their word when they say that they see no evidence for God. It is not that they won’t believe in God, it is that they can’t believe in God because they see no evidence for God. The same holds true for me. It is not that I won’t disbelieve in God, it is that I can’t disbelieve in God because I see evidence for God.
For someone to change their mind, they must be in a position where it's reasonable enough to do so, people who have suffered horribly and haven't recovered yet are not people who can easily change their understanding of things, as they want stability in their worldview, even if it's wrong. But for those who haven't suffered horribly or have recovered from their suffering, what is needed to change their mind is awareness of new information that contradicts their previous understanding. The issue is that knowledge is gained through time passed, so people who are younger lack knowledge, and therefore lack the means to have enough awareness to change their worldview, especially if their worldview has been influenced by people who are much older than them.

But even with time being required to gain new knowledge, a person must be open to accepting new knowledge, like someone fishing using a net, if they don't use a good net, the fish will just pass through it. The net illustrates our intention to be aware of new knowledge that comes by us as time passes.

During the time that I once believed in Christianity, I didn't use a good 'net' because I was told to have faith more than reason. I was told to trust God through prayer, yet also trust those with more experience than myself, as well as the Bible, but not really myself, not much of my own ability because I was sinful in nature, I needed to be shown the way, not given the tools to understand myself. "The Bible is true, so you need to trust the bible" this was said to me as if it were common sense among my fellow Christians. They told me to have faith even when times are hard, even when it seems to make sense to doubt... and of course, the fear of hell weighed heavily on my mind, being a source of suffering for me due to mental stress, which prevented me from being in a position where it's reasonable to change my mind.

In order to doubt Christianity and leave it, I was put into a position where I had no choice about being exposed to information which caused me to change my mind (in other words, I did not cast a 'net' to catch 'fish', but instead fell into the 'ocean', the 'fish' coming at me as I remained where I was, unable to do differently).

In other words, I'm saying that expecting someone who has suffered and hasn't healed yet to expose themself to new information to change their mind is not reasonable, but if someone who has suffered and hasn't healed yet is simply exposed to new information, not by their own ability, then expecting that they'll change their worldview is just obviously what will happen (though likely it will be an unpleasant experience for them as it was for me initially).
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
For someone to change their mind, they must be in a position where it's reasonable enough to do so, people who have suffered horribly and haven't recovered yet are not people who can easily change their understanding of things, as they want stability in their worldview, even if it's wrong. But for those who haven't suffered horribly or have recovered from their suffering, what is needed to change their mind is awareness of new information that contradicts their previous understanding. The issue is that knowledge is gained through time passed, so people who are younger lack knowledge, and therefore lack the means to have enough awareness to change their worldview, especially if their worldview has been influenced by people who are much older than them.

But even with time being required to gain new knowledge, a person must be open to accepting new knowledge, like someone fishing using a net, if they don't use a good net, the fish will just pass through it. The net illustrates our intention to be aware of new knowledge that comes by us as time passes.

During the time that I once believed in Christianity, I didn't use a good 'net' because I was told to have faith more than reason. I was told to trust God through prayer, yet also trust those with more experience than myself, as well as the Bible, but not really myself, not much of my own ability because I was sinful in nature, I needed to be shown the way, not given the tools to understand myself. "The Bible is true, so you need to trust the bible" this was said to me as if it were common sense among my fellow Christians. They told me to have faith even when times are hard, even when it seems to make sense to doubt... and of course, the fear of hell weighed heavily on my mind, being a source of suffering for me due to mental stress, which prevented me from being in a position where it's reasonable to change my mind.

In order to doubt Christianity and leave it, I was put into a position where I had no choice about being exposed to information which caused me to change my mind (in other words, I did not cast a 'net' to catch 'fish', but instead fell into the 'ocean', the 'fish' coming at me as I remained where I was, unable to do differently).

In other words, I'm saying that expecting someone who has suffered and hasn't healed yet to expose themself to new information to change their mind is not reasonable, but if someone who has suffered and hasn't healed yet is simply exposed to new information, not by their own ability, then expecting that they'll change their worldview is just obviously what will happen (though likely it will be an unpleasant experience for them as it was for me initially).
That is a great analysis of human behavior. Psychology is a hat I wore a lot longer than any religion hat.

Since I was not raised in a religious household, I was never caught in the net of Christianity, so I never had to break free. When I listen to the stories of others who broke free I can somewhat understand what it must be like.

I often see Christians who have suffered a lot and they grabbed onto Christianity as a cure for their suffering, rather than healing the source of their suffering. They refuse any new information because they are afraid of losing the only thing that they believed healed them, Jesus. As you said, this is understandable, especially given everything Christianity offers.

I am a person who has suffered almost my entire life. I had no religion as a child but I had a religion all throughout adulthood, since I joined the Baha'i Faith when I was 17 years old. Initially I became a Baha'i because the religion made sense to me and rang true, not because I was looking for a religion or seeking God. I did not look to my religion to heal me and it could not have healed me since I had psychological problems that needed to be healed, not spiritual problems.

Once I realized that I had psychological problems I got the help that I needed. That was a long time ago, back in the 1980s and 1990s. Only after healing had occurred was God or my religion of any real use to me. Only after I had dealt with my psychological problems did I engage with the religion or start thinking about God and seeking to know more about what my religion says about God.

Much new information has come my way since I started reading and posting on different religious forums 11 years ago, but I can look at that information objectively because I am not attached to my religion or expecting it to be a cure for any personal problems. I just want to know the truth about God.
 

Echogem222

Active Member
That is a great analysis of human behavior. Psychology is a hat I wore a lot longer than any religion hat.

Since I was not raised in a religious household, I was never caught in the net of Christianity, so I never had to break free. When I listen to the stories of others who broke free I can somewhat understand what it must be like.

I often see Christians who have suffered a lot and they grabbed onto Christianity as a cure for their suffering, rather than healing the source of their suffering. They refuse any new information because they are afraid of losing the only thing that they believed healed them, Jesus. As you said, this is understandable, especially given everything Christianity offers.

I am a person who has suffered almost my entire life. I had no religion as a child but I had a religion all throughout adulthood, since I joined the Baha'i Faith when I was 17 years old. Initially I became a Baha'i because the religion made sense to me and rang true, not because I was looking for a religion or seeking God. I did not look to my religion to heal me and it could not have healed me since I had psychological problems that needed to be healed, not spiritual problems.

Once I realized that I had psychological problems I got the help that I needed. That was a long time ago, back in the 1980s and 1990s. Only after healing had occurred was God or my religion of any real use to me. Only after I had dealt with my psychological problems did I engage with the religion or start thinking about God and seeking to know more about what my religion says about God.

Much new information has come my way since I started reading and posting on different religious forums 11 years ago, but I can look at that information objectively because I am not attached to my religion or expecting it to be a cure for any personal problems. I just want to know the truth about God.
What I'm going to say isn't me judging you as being wrong to have done what you did, but I feel like there's a lack of sync between healing your mind, and healing your spirituality regarding your current faith (or am I not understanding what you're saying correctly?)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
What I'm going to say isn't me judging you as being wrong to have done what you did, but I feel like there's a lack of sync between healing your mind, and healing your spirituality regarding your current faith (or am I not understanding what you're saying correctly?)
No, that is not what I meant. What I meant was that I had to heal my mental-emotional problems before I could become engaged with my religion and start thinking about God and spirituality. Now everything is in sync.
 

Echogem222

Active Member
No, that is not what I meant. What I meant was that I had to heal my mental-emotional problems before I could become engaged with my religion and start thinking about God and spirituality. Now everything is in sync.
Got it. By the way, I've studied the Baha'i faith somewhat, and even interacted with someone else of that faith, and I'm confused about the acceptance of other faiths, because the person I interacted with implied that they accepted all faiths, but seemed to reject my own, only wishing to speak to me about their own faith. Is there something about your faith that I'm not getting which would cause their actions to make sense?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Got it. By the way, I've studied the Baha'i faith somewhat, and even interacted with someone else of that faith, and I'm confused about the acceptance of other faiths, because the person I interacted with implied that they accepted all faiths, but seemed to reject my own, only wishing to speak to me about their own faith. Is there something about your faith that I'm not getting which would cause their actions to make sense?
I don't know what transpired between you and that Baha'i, so I don't know why that person said that.
When Baha'is say they accept all religions they do not mean that we accept every religious belief system in the world as true.
We mean that we accept all the major religions that we believe were revealed by God through a Messenger of God.
 

Echogem222

Active Member
I don't know what transpired between you and that Baha'i, so I don't know why that person said that.
When Baha'is say they accept all religions they do not mean that we accept every religious belief system in the world as true.
We mean that we accept all the major religions that we believe were revealed by God through a Messenger of God.
Thank you for clarifying. My religion isn't a major one (yet), so that now makes sense that they reacted that way. Well, sort of, I did get the feeling that they were being intentionally misleading so I would be forced to listen to what they were saying without being able to have a meaningful discussion with them. But I understand perfectly well that 1 believer of a religion doesn't mean all other believers of that religion are the same.

That matter aside though, how do you generally interact with people who believe in a religion that you don't believe in? (I know I've had a few discussions with you, but I just want to better understand your views, so I can interact with people of your faith without coming off as being rude)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
That matter aside though, how do you generally interact with people who believe in a religion that you don't believe in? (I know I've had a few discussions with you, but I just want to better understand your views, so I can interact with people of your faith without coming off as being rude)
All Baha'is will respond differently to you since we all think differently, even though we share the same beliefs.

The way I react is to ask that person what they believe in and why, where their beliefs come from etc., rather than dismissing their beliefs out of hand. It might very well be that some of their beliefs are true, since truth is truth, no matter where it comes from.

However that is not how all Baha'is look at it, since some have a narrower view of truth and where it comes from.
 

Echogem222

Active Member
All Baha'is will respond differently to you since we all think differently, even though we share the same beliefs.

The way I react is to ask that person what they believe in and why, where their beliefs come from etc., rather than dismissing their beliefs out of hand. It might very well be that some of their beliefs are true, since truth is truth, no matter where it comes from.

However that is not how all Baha'is look at it, since some have a narrower view of truth and where it comes from.
Well, given my conversations with you so far, it did seem pretty likely you have a reasonable mentality. I'm about the same as you, but if someone has a belief which clearly contradicts logic, and they're not acting reasonable, then I'll usually just not try to argue with them, ignore them, that sort of thing before they even finish explaining things fully. I tend to see conversation at the point being useless, that they need to experience things to realize they need to change their views, or possibly I could convince them they're wrong, but it would take far too long just to get them to the point where we could have a reasonable discussion. I guess you could say that I pick my 'battles' wisely, as to not end up losing due to simply exhaustion instead of something more meaningful (like being proven wrong).
 
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