Can the faith of one religion discredit the faith of another?

[1213]

Good point. Is it fair to say Christians are faithful to Jesus?

I think many are not, because it seems to me that many of them have replaced what Jesus said with their own doctrines.

Would the 9-11 hijackers be any less faithful to give their lives to the will of God?

Giving life to God is not necessarily loyal/faithful. Did God ask them to do it? If yes, then maybe it can be seen they were loyal to God.

Would the include the side of Christianity that condemns gays and the side that loves and accepts gays? Which Bible God is correct? Some side is wrong, yes? Both can't be loyal and be correct, can they?...

I am not sure what groups you mean and what they have done. But, there are two groups, other say “according to the Bible, homosexual act is wrong according to the Bible”. And other side says “we should forgive”. I think both of them are correct and at least partially loyal to Bible God. But, there may also be a third group that says, “we should accept everything”. I think that group is not loyal to Bible God.

 

[CBM]

Judaism is an outlier as far as religion goes. It's unique in that it is not just a religion but a genetic group, and a long historic heritage. It includes Jewish atheists, which is an interesting subgroup.[/QUOTE

Yes, but it is religion as well.
And it’s a religion in direct contradiction to some of Christianity’s doctrines and Islam’s beliefs. (I don’t believe Eastern religions even claim to be true by objective standards, so I wouldn’t include them here. Correct me if I’m wrong.) So yes, my belief in Judaism discredits Christianity’s belief in eternal hell, the need for a sacrificial figure and the trinity for example. It discredits Islam’s belief in Jihad.

I actually found @Windwalker’s posts very interesting. (Although I disagreed with some of what he said.) Because although my belief in Judaism is grounded in reason, my passion for Judaism and God is something that preceded my ability to question or reason at all.

That simple certain faith was followed by a period of intense questioning and doubt which, once resolved with reasonable belief, led to a much deeper faith.

Faith in Hebrew comes from the word אמן which means loyalty and truth.
I think those are more accurate terms. It’s more than mere belief - like I said before, it’s a knowing.

But if Christianity or Islam turns out to be true (I’m not concerned they will) I don’t see how God can fault me for not believing in religions with inferior evidence.
I did the best I could with the resources available to me and the intellect I have.
Judaism promotes questions, critical thought and rigorous intellectual honesty. And yes, that is a good thing. I’m always astounded when Christians put that down as somehow being inferior to blind faith.
It’s interesting because even the most Orthodox Jews will give atheists more credence in debate while Christianity and Islam are hardly acknowledged (no offense) as valid alternative viewpoints.

I hope I haven’t offended anyone here.
But the fact that Christians and Muslims believe I am damned for eternity probably balances out my criticism . ( And no, Jews do not believe in damnation. Every nation has a unique purpose and every individual has a unique purpose, with th capacity for Godliness and greatness. Gentiles in fact have an easier route to become close with God - the 7 Noahide laws.)

 

[robocop (actually)]

On the discussion "Do atheists have faith" someone argued that faith is a reliable means to truth, to moral guidance, to know God's mind, etc.. I pointed out that there are examples of faithful people who do criminal things and justify it through their faith. My best example was the 9-11 hijackers who were following God's will to plan and attack numerous targets in the USA nearly 20 years ago. The person said their motivation wasn't real faith. I pointed out that faith as being argued has no real standards like reason and logic does. Faith is justified through the eye of the beholder, and anything goes.

I asked what authority does this person have as a mortal, just like any atheist, that can discount the faith of another theist or religion. Since faith has no standards the person could offer nothing except his/her own belief, just as the 9-11 hijackers did.

So how can one faith-based believer dispute the beliefs of some other faith-based believer if BOTH insist faith is reliable, yet offer no standards to determine the reliability of faith?

Here is what my religion says about testing faith:

17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a asign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.

18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to abelieve, for he knoweth it.

19 And now, how much amore bcursed is he that cknoweth the dwill of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into etransgression?

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

21 And now as I said concerning faith—afaith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye bhope for things which are cnot seen, which are true.

22 And now, behold, I say unto you, and I would that ye should remember, that God is amerciful unto all who believe on his name; therefore he desireth, in the first place, that ye should believe, yea, even on his word.

23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men, yea, anot only men but women also. Now this is not all; little bchildren do have words given unto them many times, which cconfound the wise and the learned.

24 And now, my beloved brethren, as ye have desired to know of me what ye shall do because ye are afflicted and cast out—now I do not desire that ye should suppose that I mean to judge you only according to that which is true—

25 For I do not mean that ye all of you have been compelled to humble yourselves; for I verily believe that there are some among you who awould humble themselves, let them be in whatsoever circumstances they might.

26 Now, as I said concerning faith—that it was not a perfect knowledge—even so it is with my words. Ye cannot know of their surety at first, unto perfection, any more than faith is a perfect knowledge.

27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than adesire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.

28 Now, we will compare the word unto a aseed. Now, if ye give place, that a bseed may be planted in your cheart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your dunbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to eenlighten my funderstanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.

30 But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.

31 And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own alikeness.

32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.

33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.

34 And now, behold, is your aknowledge bperfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your cfaith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your dmind doth begin to expand.

35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is alight; and whatsoever is light, is bgood, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect?

36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.

37 And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say: Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up, and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit.

38 But if ye aneglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your aground is bbarren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.

40 And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the atree of life.

41 But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with apatience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree bspringing up unto everlasting life.

42 And because of your adiligence and your faith and your patience with the word in nourishing it, that it may take root in you, behold, by and by ye shall pluck the bfruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure; and ye shall feast upon this fruit even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst.

43 Then, my brethren, ye shall areap the brewards of your faith, and your diligence, and patience, and long-suffering, waiting for the tree to bring forth cfruit unto you.

 

[F1fan]

I believe it is a matter of in whom you place your faith.

Sure, you should make sure the people you invest your faith can live up to the expectations you have. But we aren't talking about faith in people.

-

I believe I place my faith in God through the Holy Spirit. I believe there is no better place to place ones faith.

Yes, it's what you believe. And you could be in error.

I believe the 911 culprits may have claimed God but they were so far from Him that they in fact mocked God.

Well you aren't a Muslim so perhaps you just don't get it. As an atheist I hear theists tell me that since I'm not their kind of theist that I just don't get the fervor of faith in God. So perhaps you're wrong and they were actually following God's commands. This is the dilemma of faith: there is no standard to follow to assess or judge anything. Faith justifies all belief.

 

[F1fan]

Here is what my religion says about testing faith:

17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a asign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.

18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to abelieve, for he knoweth it.

19 And now, how much amore bcursed is he that cknoweth the dwill of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into etransgression?

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

21 And now as I said concerning faith—afaith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye bhope for things which are cnot seen, which are true.

22 And now, behold, I say unto you, and I would that ye should remember, that God is amerciful unto all who believe on his name; therefore he desireth, in the first place, that ye should believe, yea, even on his word.

23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men, yea, anot only men but women also. Now this is not all; little bchildren do have words given unto them many times, which cconfound the wise and the learned.

24 And now, my beloved brethren, as ye have desired to know of me what ye shall do because ye are afflicted and cast out—now I do not desire that ye should suppose that I mean to judge you only according to that which is true—

25 For I do not mean that ye all of you have been compelled to humble yourselves; for I verily believe that there are some among you who awould humble themselves, let them be in whatsoever circumstances they might.

26 Now, as I said concerning faith—that it was not a perfect knowledge—even so it is with my words. Ye cannot know of their surety at first, unto perfection, any more than faith is a perfect knowledge.

27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than adesire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.

28 Now, we will compare the word unto a aseed. Now, if ye give place, that a bseed may be planted in your cheart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your dunbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to eenlighten my funderstanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.

30 But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.

31 And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own alikeness.

32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.

33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good.

34 And now, behold, is your aknowledge bperfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your cfaith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your dmind doth begin to expand.

35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is alight; and whatsoever is light, is bgood, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect?

36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.

37 And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say: Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up, and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit.

38 But if ye aneglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your aground is bbarren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.

40 And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the atree of life.

41 But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with apatience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree bspringing up unto everlasting life.

42 And because of your adiligence and your faith and your patience with the word in nourishing it, that it may take root in you, behold, by and by ye shall pluck the bfruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure; and ye shall feast upon this fruit even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst.

43 Then, my brethren, ye shall areap the brewards of your faith, and your diligence, and patience, and long-suffering, waiting for the tree to bring forth cfruit unto you.

Well that's YOUR religion. Why would anyone outside of YOUR religion care what it says when they have their own beliefs? This is the dilemma of faith, it has no authority over other forms of faith. Faith can justify any belief it wants, and they can claim God is the authority they follow.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Well that's YOUR religion. Why would anyone outside of YOUR religion care what it says when they have their own beliefs? This is the dilemma of faith, it has no authority over other forms of faith. Faith can justify any belief it wants, and they can claim God is the authority they follow.

This is what my religion says as to how to test a religion. You are meant to read what my religion says about testing faith and see if it makes sense, and if it makes sense than you can use it to test any religion.

 

[F1fan]

But if Christianity or Islam turns out to be true (I’m not concerned they will) I don’t see how God can fault me for not believing in religions with inferior evidence.

Let's not forget Judaism has origins as a polytheistic system. But it's evidence Christianity and Islam basically stole conce[ts from Judaism and changed them just enough to be different.

I did the best I could with the resources available to me and the intellect I have.
Judaism promotes questions, critical thought and rigorous intellectual honesty. And yes, that is a good thing. I’m always astounded when Christians put that down as somehow being inferior to blind faith.

It’s interesting because even the most Orthodox Jews will give atheists more credence in debate while Christianity and Islam are hardly acknowledged (no offense) as valid alternative viewpoints.

I tend to exempt Judaism for these and other reasons. It's one of a few religions I don't have much problem with, and plus Jews tend to mind their own business, which is odd since they have been targeted so heavily over the millennia.

I hope I haven’t offended anyone here.
But the fact that Christians and Muslims believe I am damned for eternity probably balances out my criticism . ( And no, Jews do not believe in damnation. Every nation has a unique purpose and every individual has a unique purpose, with th capacity for Godliness and greatness. Gentiles in fact have an easier route to become close with God - the 7 Noahide laws.)

This is related to this topic: can a religion have a doctrine that drags in unwilling people into it, and they assume some authority over those who believe differently? I assert no.

 

[F1fan]

This is what my religion says as to how to test a religion. You are meant to read what my religion says about testing faith and see if it makes sense, and if it makes sense than you can use it to test any religion.

It can say anything it wants, but the issue is does it have any authority over those who believe differently?

Asking me to make a reasoned assessment is not what I'm asking in this discussion.

I'll ask you if you believe your religion has any authority over Hindus, Muslims, Jews, atheists, etc.?

 

[McCallister]

On the discussion "Do atheists have faith" someone argued that faith is a reliable means to truth, to moral guidance, to know God's mind, etc.. I pointed out that there are examples of faithful people who do criminal things and justify it through their faith. My best example was the 9-11 hijackers who were following God's will to plan and attack numerous targets in the USA nearly 20 years ago. The person said their motivation wasn't real faith. I pointed out that faith as being argued has no real standards like reason and logic does. Faith is justified through the eye of the beholder, and anything goes.

I asked what authority does this person have as a mortal, just like any atheist, that can discount the faith of another theist or religion. Since faith has no standards the person could offer nothing except his/her own belief, just as the 9-11 hijackers did.

So how can one faith-based believer dispute the beliefs of some other faith-based believer if BOTH insist faith is reliable, yet offer no standards to determine the reliability of faith?

I think that shows a pretty big problem with the idea that faith is reliable. I wouldn’t trust either of their opinions probably.

 

[robocop (actually)]

It can say anything it wants, but the issue is does it have any authority over those who believe differently?

Asking me to make a reasoned assessment is not what I'm asking in this discussion.

I'll ask you if you believe your religion has any authority over Hindus, Muslims, Jews, atheists, etc.?

I don't think I can say my religion has authority over those other religions when it is so small in size; other people wouldn't expect it to be true, but that's why we send so many missionaries!

 

[F1fan]

I think that shows a pretty big problem with the idea that faith is reliable. I wouldn’t trust either of their opinions probably.

Right. A number of people have responded with some tenets or doctrines from their religion, but my point is they don't mean squat to a person of another religion.

 

[F1fan]

I don't think I can say my religion has authority over those other religions when it is so small in size;

Do you think size matters? I'm not referring to "bully" authority that can push people around, or else. Rather actual divine authority that backs up a religion.

other people wouldn't expect it to be true, but that's why we send so many missionaries!

But missionaries don't mean their religion is true. If there was an actual divine authority behind a religion that divine can do some amazing things without relying on the grunt work by fallible mortals, who might be wrong in their beliefs.

 

[McCallister]

Right. A number of people have responded with some tenets or doctrines from their religion, but my point is they don't mean squat to a person of another religion.

Yeah, stuff like that in religion raises a red flag for me. It’s impossible to tell who’s right and who’s wrong. I think that’s all it takes for me not to rely on faith. Doesn’t matter how many different ideas about faith you have according to old books it still doesn’t reconcile who’s right and who’s wrong. I need to be able to know that. I feel like that’s kind of important. Best to go with the default position and not use faith till someone can actually use it successfully.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Do you think size matters? I'm not referring to "bully" authority that can push people around, or else. Rather actual divine authority that backs up a religion.



But missionaries don't mean their religion is true. If there was an actual divine authority behind a religion that divine can do some amazing things without relying on the grunt work by fallible mortals, who might be wrong in their beliefs.

We have the priesthood in our religion. I've had miracles done to me. But the church has imperfect people. "God has a perfect church with imperfect people," they'd sometimes tell me.

 

[F1fan]

I think many are not, because it seems to me that many of them have replaced what Jesus said with their own doctrines.

This would suggest that many Christians are anti-Christs, and are perhaps a bigger threat than atheists.

Giving life to God is not necessarily loyal/faithful.

Ouch, man. That hurt Jesus' feelings.

Did God ask them to do it? If yes, then maybe it can be seen they were loyal to God.

Well they say so. Can you or me say they are wrong? If you're a theist you already believe a God exists, so you have that possibility open to you. Another dilemma. I'm not convinced a God exists so I have another reason to reject what they claim.

I am not sure what groups you mean and what they have done. But, there are two groups, other say “according to the Bible, homosexual act is wrong according to the Bible”. And other side says “we should forgive”. I think both of them are correct and at least partially loyal to Bible God. But, there may also be a third group that says, “we should accept everything”. I think that group is not loyal to Bible God.

Do you think the Bible text has any authority over free gay citizens? Should Christians, like Westboro Baptist Church, assume they have an authority to actively harass and condemn gay people if those folks are no part of their beliefs?

 

[F1fan]

We have the priesthood in our religion. I've had miracles done to me. But the church has imperfect people. "God has a perfect church with imperfect people," they'd sometimes tell me.

They could be mistaken about the God part of it. Got to consider it.

 

[F1fan]

Faith tells us that to know and Love God is the Purpose of Life.

This is an excellent point, thanks for bringing it up. This is exactly what justifies the 9-11 hijackers, as it was God that gave them their purpose in life. Just 19 ordinary Muslims and we are still talking about what they did for God some 20 years later.

So in reality the purpose of all God given Faith is in complete harmony.

I suppose if there is evil in the world the fight against it brings harmony.

Where it all breaks down is when man changes what is given by God to suit their own agenda.

Interesting, how do disputes between Christian sects get resolved? We still have Catholics and protestants some 500 years after Martin Luther.

Love is of God, all forms of hate are the lack of that Love.

Do you agree that many atheists can love, while many theists are hateful? If so what does this tell us?

Truthfulness and Trustworthiness are of God, all what is not Truthfulness and Trustworthiness is lack of that God given virtue.

Again, can't atheists be truthful and trustworthy, while theists can be corrupt?

Your last two comments suggest you are trying to withhold love and virtue from anyone who isn't a theist. Is that what you meant?

 

[F1fan]

Some follow their own egos and call it Faith. The Holy Books teach to be humble and non violent. If a person acts opposite and commits violence then it is their own ego not from God.

Perhaps you have an explanation as to why the books fail to adequately teach.

There's a possibility that the absence of an actual God may pressure believers to fulfill the role themselves, and that pressure may aggravate the ego. We would think that those who tap into God would find an incredible peace, and that would reflect on everyday life. We just don't see it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Perhaps you have an explanation as to why the books fail to adequately teach.

There's a possibility that the absence of an actual God may pressure believers to fulfill the role themselves, and that pressure may aggravate the ego. We would think that those who tap into God would find an incredible peace, and that would reflect on everyday life. We just don't see it.

@F1fan i think you said somewhere that you had read the quran? If you did, it may be that you do not know that the quran speak about both good and bad in our world, it is a reason for this. everything in this world has a good and a bad, even the spiritual teachings. unfortunatly those "spiritual" people who chose to use example the Quran as their tool to do evil deeds, and declare it is from Allah, they in my understanding have missunderstood the message that is in the teaching. As muslims we are not supposed to harm others, but the quran do speak about what happen if we do, and how to react if we are "attacked". A muslim can in time of war both kill and defend them self in many different ways, against an enemy. but if there is no war it is haram to harm others. So all the verses you see in the quran speaking about killing, harming others, are only meant for time of war.
Unfortunatly you have some muslims who have not gotten that part very well understood, so example if America was to protect one of their friends around the world, and they had to guard against muslim terrorists, as soon a bullet did get fired, for a few muslims that would be enough to use the "at war time" verses to so called defend islam.
And of course if we look at when those verses did arise in the teaching, it was during time of war when Muhammad was here. So maybe it was teaching only for that time, but has later been missunderstood by followers?

To make it very clear, i am not an academic in reading the Quran, i am my self only a believer and follower of a peaceful sufi path.

 

[F1fan]

@F1fan i think you said somewhere that you had read the quran?

I've never read the whole thing. I've read bits.

If you did, it may be that you do not know that the quran speak about both good and bad in our world, it is a reason for this. everything in this world has a good and a bad, even the spiritual teachings. unfortunatly those "spiritual" people who chose to use example the Quran as their tool to do evil deeds, and declare it is from Allah, they in my understanding have missunderstood the message that is in the teaching. As muslims we are not supposed to harm others, but the quran do speak about what happen if we do, and how to react if we are "attacked". A muslim can in time of war both kill and defend them self in many different ways, against an enemy. but if there is no war it is haram to harm others. So all the verses you see in the quran speaking about killing, harming others, are only meant for time of war.
Unfortunatly you have some muslims who have not gotten that part very well understood, so example if America was to protect one of their friends around the world, and they had to guard against muslim terrorists, as soon a bullet did get fired, for a few muslims that would be enough to use the "at war time" verses to so called defend islam.
And of course if we look at when those verses did arise in the teaching, it was during time of war when Muhammad was here. So maybe it was teaching only for that time, but has later been missunderstood by followers?

To make it very clear, i am not an academic in reading the Quran, i am my self only a believer and follower of a peaceful sufi path.

Good people don't have as much to learn. And you're one of them. The world seems better suited for bad people, and the good often don't feel as if they belong. So everyone struggles. The good have to be the example.