Can our discussions here make a difference in the world around us?

[Vinayaka]

At times I'm serious. At times I role-play. It used to confuse people, but I think now they're getting used to it. I mean even role-play is pretty important to me. For example, suppose someone wants to become Trans. They typically have to role-play an opposite gender a bit and see how it makes them feel. So there exists a lot of healthy role-play, as much healthy as negative.

I never role-play, don't even know what it refers to, but I got accused of it. I get accused of a lot of things though, so that's not new. Amazing the false conclusions that can be achieved from words on a screen written by a total stranger. I'm sure I'm guilty of it as well.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I never role-play, don't even know what it refers to, but I got accused of it. I get accused of a lot of things though, so that's not new. Amazing the false conclusions that can be achieved from words on a screen written by a total stranger. I'm sure I'm guilty of it as well.

Role-play can mean many things. Being an epic memer for giggles. Playing someone more immature than your actual age for laughs. And many other examples.

You see, in a forum role-playing game, traditionally it's a game where people spend a page fleshing out a fictional character, then once that's done, writing interactions through the eyes of that character they created. That's where the term comes from.

 

[Vinayaka]

Role-play can mean many things. Being an epic memer for giggles. Playing someone more immature than your actual age for laughs. And many other examples.

You see, in a forum role-playing game, traditionally it's a game where people spend a page fleshing out a fictional character, then once that's done, writing interactions through the eyes of that character they created. That's where the term comes from.

Never done it, outside of some fiction I write. Definitely do it there. But on these forums, sock puppets are banned, and it would be deceptive, so no.

 

[Jim]

@AT-AT What I mean by roleplaying is mock debating about some worlds that people see in media and faction stories, where it doesn’t matter for anyone’s purposes how much or how little those worlds resemble the our offline world. It’s a social activity where people are trying to score points, figuratively speaking, and it has no aim or purpose outside of whatever rewards each person gets from the activity itself. I used to keep getting drawn into it because I kept thinking it was about trying to help solve the problems in our offline world. That misunderstanding always leads to some grief for me and others.

 

[We Never Know]

Can our discussions here in Religious Forums make a difference in the world around us? If so, what can any of us do, for our discussions here to do the most good in the world around us?

Many people will gripe and moan in a forum but be silent in life. It's the saftey of being anonymous on the internet is a resson many actually do speak out. There is no consequence for doing so. IMO put them in the eye of the public where their identy is known, where they have to actually face and be responsible for what they say and mums becomes the word.
This forum is full of church goers that would never act in church in the same way they act here.
Is it hypocrisy, fear, seeking acceptance, being a rebel, or simply a second personality,,, we will never know.

 

[Jim]

I said in a post above that it looks to me like one thing that adversely affects people’s thinking, their communications with others, and their attitudes and behavior towards others, is people thinking that they know something. I want to revise that. The problem is not in people thinking that they know something, by itself. There might be healthy uses for the feeling of knowing something. It’s the unloving attitudes and behavior that the feeling of knowing sometimes facilitates.

 

[Jim]

Sometimes when I post about helping to improve the world, I see adverse reactions to that. Is there anyone here who does not think that it’s wrong to try to help improve the world?

 

[MJFlores]

Sometimes when I post about helping to improve the world, I see adverse reactions to that. Is there anyone here who does not think that it’s wrong to try to help improve the world?

Moi!

I believe the world is beyond saving and beyond improving.
Now what could be improved on is an individual and not any other individual but one who listens.
This world won't last any longer.

 

[Jim]

Update: I think that spiritual growth and community service, and systematic training for those purposes, will become increasingly popular, online and offline, as ways of helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere and helping to improve the world for future generations. I think that anything anyone does for those purposes in these forums or anywhere else online will help it happen more offline. For now I’m not planning to post much in these forums, but when I do I’m planning to look for those things happening, and try to find friendly and helpful ways to respond.

 

[Jim]

I’m thinking now that anything we can do to help reduce the popularity of verbal and psychological abuse in Internet discussions might help reduce and counteract all kinds of cruelty and violence in the world, including domestic violence, abuse of cheap labor, and economic and military warfare. I might start some discussions about bullying and verbal and psychological abuse, and what has been learned about what anyone who wants to can do to help reduce and counteract them.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Can our discussions here in Religious Forums make a difference in the world around us? If so, what can any of us do, for our discussions here to do the most good in the world around us?

Anytime we can share and communicate ideas and objectively evaluate those we receive, there is the possibility that some good can be generated and radiated. While it would be ideal if we could all communicate freely in some mutually nurturing environment, I have doubts that is a goal that is practically achievable. Though, I certainly agree with attempts to improve conditions bringing us closer to that destination.

I recognize that there are barriers to this effort that naturally exist and some may, ultimately be insurmountable or only partially cleared. Differences in language, understanding of vocabulary within a language, education, experience, worldview, the variation in the types of thought processes used to interpret information, and attitude are some of the general hurdles that we already have to jump just to carry out ordinary communication as it stands.

Just as I am posting, I find a barrier of my own, in losing track of a thought while trying to maintain that thought while multitasking word choice and the slow process of typing with a texting app on a Kindle Fire.

Another barrier is someone like me that grows tired of games and tactics in discussions that are used to replace valid argument. My impatience with this poor excuse for discussion and debate materializes as sarcasm and wisecracks. While it is my problem and that of others of a like attitude, others still have to deal with us, and we are actually not as bad as it can be or can get.

I think efforts to be more inclusive, break barriers, reduce bullying and marginalizing others for reasons and qualities that have nothing to do with the topic of discussion are fantastic. But this only works as a dynamic and one side cannot do it alone for both sides.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I’m thinking now that anything we can do to help reduce the popularity of verbal and psychological abuse in Internet discussions might help reduce and counteract all kinds of cruelty and violence in the world, including domestic violence, abuse of cheap labor, and economic and military warfare. I might start some discussions about bullying and verbal and psychological abuse, and what has been learned about what anyone who wants to can do to help reduce and counteract them.

It is much more difficult to attack someone you have come to know better and can call them a friend. Though, as humans, we are still not above doing that, but we are capable of better. If you think that we can establish friendships here in a sense that will put us in the shoes of another and know them better, this is a positive idea. Positive ideas can spread. But we have a history of getting together as friends and members of a group, finding that common ground that brings us together, but then going after groups that are not our group. Perhaps, an important part of that dynamic that breaks down this tendency to tribalism is people like you that remind us not to forget to be better. I would just caution against unrealistic expectations and that reducing antagonism may be more achievable than eliminating it.

As an entomologist, I have been educated in a system that has learned the hard way that eradicating every pest would be great, but impossible. The best we can do is find effective and economic ways to manage pests. To accept that a certain level of pest species below a threshold can be tolerated. This can be achieved by integrating many different approaches, some being related and others widely different. Eradication of a pest species turns out to be difficult, and even if achieved, opens up unexpected consequences like some new species finding the recent opening desirable, productive and easily exploitable..

 

[Jim]

I’m thinking now of posting some thoughts here about what anyone who wants to can do in Internet discussions to help reduce all kind of cruelty and violence in the world around us, including within families and in the use of cheap labor, around the world. Besides the general response to all current issues that I’ve been discussing, I have some thoughts about how to respond to harmful behavior in Internet discussions.

 

[Jim]

If discussion motivates people to act in a more positive way, then that's wonderful. But I don't see anything automatic about that.

I think for those who are members of a religious minority, RF it is a good way of getting into contact with others of the same religion to get a broader picture. RF is also a quick way to get answers that otherwise would require a lot of research. In my eyes, the information gained on RF can help to evaluate claims of religions IRL.

RF is quite an amazing place where peoples of all faiths come together to discuss almost anything, but often religion itself. It’s an excellent place to learn.

Eventually they can.

Some folks might learn a lot here, and apply it ...

People have always published in the hopes of changing things. For example, "Silent Spring" resulted in the banning of DDT. Another book resulted in the formation of the FDA.
This forum has a very diverse set of members, including those who publish research papers. ... The vast majority of these people are on other social media as well, ie. fb, instagram, twitter, etc. So if you actually say something timely and/or important, it may be read by 100 Million people within a day. Somebody will eventually trace it back to you.
This forum does have potential.

This forum probably will end up making a difference in the world, and I hope it will.

A forum like this can inspire to a joy of helping peole around us outside of the online community ... if you can make an impact on one person, who then do a new impact on a third person and so on, yes we can change the world in a small scale

It definetly makes you more aware of how people think and act to be on this forum. ... I think Rf does have an effect on the world. People talking to other people, how could it not?

I am willing to bet that we are all often talking across divides with people we might never approach otherwise.

I came here to learn and consider what people have to say.

I dont know about any widespread affect that Rf may have had on people. But maybe it does!

How many Rf posters are there out there?

While some might become a little more open minded to others, I think more people will continue to drink their own brand of Kool-Aid as they grow more entrenched in their echo chambers. So I guess people becoming more entrenched is a bit of a difference.

Anytime we can share and communicate ideas and objectively evaluate those we receive, there is the possibility that some good can be generated and radiated.

I’m thinking now that I might have more common interests than I thought, with people in these forums. I’m interested in what difference our discussions can make in the world around us, and sometimes part of what people are thinking of as their reasons for debating might be that it could make some difference in the world around us. I think that online discussions between people about their disagreements can make a difference in the world. I think that the more friendly the discussions are, the more fruitful and beneficial they will be in their effects on the world around us.

 

[LuisDantas]

Can our discussions here in Religious Forums make a difference in the world around us?

Definitely. Ideas can spread fast and be very consequential, if they are handled with enough wisdom and care and exist in environments that are sufficiently receptive.

If so, what can any of us do, for our discussions here to do the most good in the world around us?

Make sincere attempts to learn. To learn useful information about doctrines, certainly, but also and perhaps most of all about methods and dangers of expression and mutual understanding.

Frankly, learning to recognize misinformation techniques and to counter them may be the most useful part of that all. I personally favor calling false equivalences what they are point blank. The harm caused by undue hesitancy is often underestimated. It is only human to try our hand at being abusive at least some of the time. It is our duty to realize when that happens and curb it in the bud, even on ourselves.

Another highly valuable skill to be learned is that of sincere apology. It is valuable because it is so hard to pull off, yet so necessary. Sometimes I wonder how often people even realize that there is a significant difference between a sincere apology and a statement of apology that fulfills proper protocols of etiquette. The two entities are a world of meaning apart from each other, but it took me a shamefully enormous amount of time to realize that fact.

Then there is plain admission of ignorance. It is remarkable how often we manage to be at once fully ignorant about certain matters and nonetheless unwilling to let that factor into our certainties. That is definitely something to watch for.

There is also the skill of ... I guess I have to call it good management of despisal. Maybe it is just me, but I have come to realize that I can't help but feel contempt for certain attitudes and ideas that are promoted openly as if they were respectable. The natural instinct is to compartimentalize and seek a confortable distance, and become insultuous and disrespectful when that is not possible. And sometimes that can't be helped. But it is much more fruitful to nurture the attitude of being honest with ourselves about our feelings while at the same time extending a measure of basic respect for the human nature of our interlocutors and appreciation for how slim are the factors that truly separate us from the people that we most despise.

We should never aim to mislead people, even our most despised opponents. But it is just as important, perhaps more, to keep the expectations of our esteemed ones realistic and honest. And our own. We will disappoint and we will be disappointed. That is to be expected and should be dealt with realistically and with respect for the limitations of all people, including ourselves.

Those efforts, by themselves, can in my opinion do a lot of difference in the larger world, mainly by defusing and discouraging most of the expected dangers that form spontaneously all the time. If we learn not to be fertile ground for emotional, political and creed-oriented abuse to take root and spread, that is really a very good thing. If we can achieve inspiring other people to learn a bit more as well, then we should feel very grateful indeed.

 

[Jim]

Can our discussions here in Religious Forums make a difference in the world around us?

Definitely. Ideas can spread fast and be very consequential, if they are handled with enough wisdom and care and exist in environments that are sufficiently receptive.

If so, what can any of us do, for our discussions here to do the most good in the world around us?

Make sincere attempts to learn. To learn useful information about doctrines, certainly, but also and perhaps most of all about methods and dangers of expression and mutual understanding.

Frankly, learning to recognize misinformation techniques and to counter them may be the most useful part of that all. I personally favor calling false equivalences what they are point blank. The harm caused by undue hesitancy is often underestimated. It is only human to try our hand at being abusive at least some of the time. It is our duty to realize when that happens and curb it in the bud, even on ourselves.

Another highly valuable skill to be learned is that of sincere apology. It is valuable because it is so hard to pull off, yet so necessary. Sometimes I wonder how often people even realize that there is a significant difference between a sincere apology and a statement of apology that fulfills proper protocols of etiquette. The two entities are a world of meaning apart from each other, but it took me a shamefully enormous amount of time to realize that fact.

Then there is plain admission of ignorance. It is remarkable how often we manage to be at once fully ignorant about certain matters and nonetheless unwilling to let that factor into our certainties. That is definitely something to watch for.

There is also the skill of ... I guess I have to call it good management of despisal. Maybe it is just me, but I have come to realize that I can't help but feel contempt for certain attitudes and ideas that are promoted openly as if they were respectable. The natural instinct is to compartimentalize and seek a confortable distance, and become insultuous and disrespectful when that is not possible. And sometimes that can't be helped. But it is much more fruitful to nurture the attitude of being honest with ourselves about our feelings while at the same time extending a measure of basic respect for the human nature of our interlocutors and appreciation for how slim are the factors that truly separate us from the people that we most despise.

We should never aim to mislead people, even our most despised opponents. But it is just as important, perhaps more, to keep the expectations of our esteemed ones realistic and honest. And our own. We will disappoint and we will be disappointed. That is to be expected and should be dealt with realistically and with respect for the limitations of all people, including ourselves.

Those efforts, by themselves, can in my opinion do a lot of difference in the larger world, mainly by defusing and discouraging most of the expected dangers that form spontaneously all the time. If we learn not to be fertile ground for emotional, political and creed-oriented abuse to take root and spread, that is really a very good thing. If we can achieve inspiring other people to learn a bit more as well, then we should feel very grateful indeed.

I had some more thoughts that I wanted to post here, but I decided that for now I would rather bring up your post again, for people to see. In answer to my question, “What can any of us do, for our discussions here to do the most good in the world around us?” you said “Make sincere attempts to learn. To learn useful information about doctrines, certainly, but also and perhaps most of all about methods and dangers of expression and mutual understanding.” I loved that response, and the examples you gave.

 

[Galateasdream]

Short answer: Yes.
Whatever affects people affects their actions and thus the world.

And conversation affects people. Sometimes positively, sometimes negatively, often unpredictably.

 

[Jim]

Is there anyone here who sees some good possibilities for the future of the world, and you have some ideas that you’re practicing in Internet discussions, as part of what you think needs to happen?

 

[Jim]

A few times I’ve seen people in these forums openly admitting, and even bragging, that they deliberately and intentionally abuse others psychologically, and using well known abuse techniques in the same posts where they are bragging about it. Besides that I see other psychological abuse happening that might not be intentional. That gave me the idea to try to help educate people here about psychological abuse, not thinking that it can be stopped, but for people to help reduce and counteract its effects if they want to.

 

[Jim]

Political identities, psychological abuse, layers and layers of smoke, dust and mirrors. Where to start? Maybe imagine a person with the best wishes and best intentions, and think of what I might say to them. Will educating people about psychological abuse or anything else do any good without people first learning better how to satisfy their psychological and social needs? That’s where spiritual growth and community service come in.