Can Modern Islam Win Over the Islamic Fanatics?

[Sunstone]

Whither goes Islam? Will the moderates and modernists win out? Or will the radical fanatics return Islam to the middle ages? What do you think?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Not in the forseeable future.

 

[Omer]

Hi Jayhawker and Sunstone;

There are many organisations and volunteer movements in the world working for world peace and establishing bridges between religions and cultures, seminars and conferences are being held, schools and cultural centers are being opened. I think you would find certain answers to your questions if you check out this site of a modern islamic scholar of Turkey, here's the link: www.en.fgulen.com

Peace

 

[robtex]

To see that we have to look at the cultural context where the religion is practiced and go country by country. Countries which are theocracies, monarchies and dictatorships have little to no chance of stopping fundamentalists if the govement is conguent with their actions. I think as a race most people do not desire or want war death and destruction but the bigger question becomes, within the context of their culture and goverement are they in a position to have influence on their society and goverment?

I think alot of the middle eastern countries for example are guilty of "silent condoning". By not openlying contesting the actions of suicide bombers or assassins they are either content with the actions or ambivalent thus condoning the actions by default.

As americans we could bridge the cultural gap by looking at our attitude towards Christian white supremacits groups which our goverment and many of our people show the same ambivalent attitude towards until one of them blows up a building or shoots someone.

 

[YmirGF]

It is not likely that the moderates will win. I have noted that Muslims are very reluctant to criticize their brothers, as the Muslim experience is one directly linked to God. If I read it correctly, they feel they have no right to question the faith of a fellow Muslim, even if they consider that faith to be somewhat extreme. Faith is between the Muslim and Allah, and as long as one sticks to the honored Five Pillars, everything is dandy. Muslims are welcome to correct me if I am wrong.

I also have thought about Robtex's comment about a theocracy. Tell me, just how do you remove a group like in Iran once they are in power? They do not allow real opposition to their thinking, and so any alternatives will simply be more of the same. In Saudi Arabia it is illegal to practise any religion other than Islam (I think... though I could be wrong), so again, just how do you dislodge them in a political vaccuum?

 

[michel]

It is not likely that the moderates will win. I have noted that Muslims are very reluctant to criticize their brothers, as the Muslim experience is one directly linked to God. If I read it correctly, they feel they have no right to question the faith of a fellow Muslim, even if they consider that faith to be somewhat extreme. Faith is between the Muslim and Allah, and as long as one sticks to the honored Five Pillars, everything is dandy. Muslims are welcome to correct me if I am wrong.

I also have thought about Robtex's comment about a theocracy. Tell me, just how do you remove a group like in Iran once they are in power? They do not allow real opposition to their thinking, and so any alternatives will simply be more of the same. In Saudi Arabia it is illegal to practise any religion other than Islam (I think... though I could be wrong), so again, just how do you dislodge them in a political vaccuum?

I agree;

The WWL ranking
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For the third year in a row, the complete lack of religious freedom in North Korea has positioned it first on the
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World Watch List. The strict Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia continues to hold the second position. Vietnam has
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risen one place to position three, followed by Laos in fourth place. Due to the continued pressure on believers in
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Iran, the country is in fifth place again this year. The Maldives remain sixth, followed by a new country in seventh
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place: Somalia. Christian converts from Islam are paying a high price for their new faith, especially in rural parts
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of this most lawless country in the world. There was no change in the status of religious freedom for Christians in
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Bhutan, which continues to hold position eight. In China, holding ninth place, the government increased control
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of religious activities during 2004. The top ten is concluded by a new number ten: Afghanistan, where the status
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of religious freedom deteriorated mostly because of the influence of Islamic extremists.
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Islam is the majority religion in five of the top ten countries:
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​

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Saudi Arabia, Iran, Maldives, Somalia, Afghanistan...............​

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I think Jayhawker is right. ​

 

[YmirGF]

Pity that our resident Muslims have not offered a counterpoint to negate these concerns.

 

[Flappycat]

In the past, we have won over cultures by adopting their mythology and ideas into our culture, mixing them with our ideas, and creating a tradition of mutual feedback in which we seperated the wheat from the chaff, making us stronger. I think that, if we took a liking to some of their holidays and traditions, they'd come back with taking some to our modern ideas.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I have a strong feeling that in the Islamic world the "extremists" as we call them are not looked down upon to the extent that we in the West would like to think. Only if and when the average Muslim takes a strong dislike to the actions, tactics and ideas of the terrorists. It appears that currently this is not the feeling throughout the Muslim world.

B.

 

[Flappycat]

Normally I would agree Flappycat, but frankly, you do not know a lot about Islam, do you? Read the fine print.

It's worked in the past. We get new plots for our Hollywood productions, and their kids are corrupted with good ideas. The Muslims are no worse than we were fifty years ago, partner.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

It's worked in the past. We get new plots for our Hollywood productions, and their kids are corrupted with good ideas. The Muslims are no worse than we were fifty years ago, partner.

I will agree with you largely in principl if not in the details. A good argument can be made that Islam today is not dramatically different than Western Christianity was prior to the Reformation. Would have to take issue with the 50 year thing.

Where are all the moderate Muslims, and what is there take on this issue? I constantly hear about moderate Muslims, or Muslims who are opposed to the Islamists, Islamofascists, or Terrorists, but rarely do we hear directly from them. Feel free to chime in on this one, I, for one would love to hear from someone who regularly attends a Mosque and upholds the 5 pillars.

B.

 

[Omer]

Hi friends,
I think my last post and your talk about theocratic gov'ts are a little irrelevant. (i.e. Turkey being a democratic country)
And many muslims condemn terrorist attacks, and people doing them (claimingly muslims).
And is there a "Muslim World" today? I highly doubt that.

 

[jamaesi]

Normally I would agree Flappycat, but frankly, you do not know a lot about Islam, do you? Read the fine print.

*coughs*
http://abcnews.go.com/International/CSM/story?id=1541780

 

[jamaesi]

I will agree with you largely in principl if not in the details. A good argument can be made that Islam today is not dramatically different than Western Christianity was prior to the Reformation. Would have to take issue with the 50 year thing.

Where are all the moderate Muslims, and what is there take on this issue? I constantly hear about moderate Muslims, or Muslims who are opposed to the Islamists, Islamofascists, or Terrorists, but rarely do we hear directly from them. Feel free to chime in on this one, I, for one would love to hear from someone who regularly attends a Mosque and upholds the 5 pillars.

-Moderate Muslim.

-Very opposed to terrorists. Very vocal about this.

-Been to Mosque once. Doesn't feel like repeating that again. Hasn't got one more than an hour away anyway. Likes going to UU Churches more.

-Thinks the Five Pillows are a little off. (It's with the Shahadah.)



Otherwise how can I help you?

 

[Revasser]

I think there's perhaps another bitter, possibly violent split in Islam's near future. Either the fanatics will begin to decry the moderates for their weakness and cowardice, or the moderates will get fed up enough with the fanatics to start making moves toward obviously and directly separating themselves from them. Unless a majority of the 'moderates' do actually support the fanatics, even if they don't actively participate in their activities, in which case it'll probably keep moving toward being an entirely militant religion, though I don't that will be the case. I hope it won't, at least.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Fraom the Council on American-Islamic Relations ...

Sunday, February 05, 2006

U.S. Muslims Reject Violent Response to Cartoon Controversy
CAIR to offer educational initiatives highlighting legacy of Prophet Muhammad​

In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

- MEDIA ADVISORY -

U.S. MUSLIMS REJECT VIOLENT RESPONSE TO CARTOON CONTROVERSY
CAIR to offer educational initiatives highlighting legacy of Prophet Muhammad

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 2/5/06) – On Sunday, February 5, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) will hold a news conference in Washington, D.C., to express the U.S. Muslim community’s rejection of violence in response to the defamatory caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad published in European newspapers.

WHAT: U.S. Muslims Reject Violence in Response to Cartoon Controversy
WHEN: Sunday, February 5, 2:30 p.m. (Eastern)
WHERE: CAIR Capitol Hill Headquarters, 453 New Jersey Avenue S.E., Washington, D.C.
CONTACT: CAIR Communications Director Ibrahim Hooper, 202-744-7726, E-Mail: [email protected]

At the news conference, CAIR will: 1) urge the American Muslim community and American media outlets to continue to show the restraint they have exhibited during this controversy, 2) reiterate the Muslim community’s strong belief that the controversy is not an issue of free speech, but is instead based on concerns over hate speech and incitement, 3) condemn all violent actions by those who are protesting the cartoons, and 4) preview educational initiatives that CAIR is formulating in response to the defamatory attacks on the Prophet Muhammad.

“Everyone has the right to peacefully protest defamatory attacks on their religious figures, but protestors should not reinforce existing stereotypes by resorting to violence or inflammatory rhetoric,” CAIR Communications Director Ibrahim Hooper.

On Friday, CAIR distributed a syndicated editorial, titled “What Would Muhammad Do?” describing how the Prophet Muhammad himself refrained from violent reactions to personal attacks and abuse.

SEE: http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=38841&theType=NB

Also on Friday, CAIR urged prayer leaders at mosques nationwide to defend the Prophet Muhammad’s image through educational activities, the sharing of books and other materials with friends and colleagues of other faiths and through “personal example of good character as instructed by the Prophet Muhammad.”

SEE: http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=364&theType=AA

SEE ALSO: North American Media Shy Away from Muslim Cartoons
http://localnewsleader.com/jackson/stories/index.php?action=fullnews&id=136437​

:clap

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

-Moderate Muslim.

-Very opposed to terrorists. Very vocal about this.

-Been to Mosque once. Doesn't feel like repeating that again. Hasn't got one more than an hour away anyway. Likes going to UU Churches more.

-Thinks the Five Pillows are a little off. (It's with the Shahadah.)



Otherwise how can I help you?

How, exactly, are you a Muslim then? Been to a mosque once? Don't uphold the 5 pillars? Heck, under those standards I might be a Muslim. I ask this only partially tongue in cheek. Isn't praying towards Mecca, a pilgramage, etc. . . . and going to a Mosque on a regular basis kind of expected if you are a Muslim?

B.

 

[Fluffy]

I have complete confidence that the moderate Muslims will overcome the fanatical side of their faith. The other major religions managed it just fine and they didn't have the advantage of the more moderate influence of a couple of continents.

I reckon that reformation will come from the West in 2-3 generations since the Muslims who live in Western countries will inevitably become more moderate and it is this kind of Islam that will survive. Pockets of Islamism will survive also but only in the same way as pockets of Christian fanaticism survives for example in the KKK.

 

[jamaesi]

How, exactly, are you a Muslim then? Been to a mosque once? Don't uphold the 5 pillars? Heck, under those standards I might be a Muslim. I ask this only partially tongue in cheek. Isn't praying towards Mecca, a pilgramage, etc. . . . and going to a Mosque on a regular basis kind of expected if you are a Muslim?

I mentioned it was with the Shahadah. I agree with the first part of it, but I do not think the second part, about Muhammed, should be included. Otherwise the rest of them I have no issue with. If that was cleared up then I'd have no issues.

And women usually pray at home anyway. : P