Can Jewish law be fulfilled?

[Pegg]

Deuteronomy 24:16
Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.

thats correct, our own sins will be held against us individually and my fathers sin will not be held against me or vice versa

however, genetic inheritence is assured. If my father has a genetic condition, that can be passed onto all his children.
The consequences of Adams sin was that God prevented him from living indefinitely. Whatever God did to prevent Adams body from continually regenerating itself was passed onto us genetically.

You cant get something perfect out of something imperfect. My guess is that God manipulated the telomeres, which are found in the chromosomes, so that the body would eventually die. He can undo that just as easily.

Just because Paul says.... ""sin entered the world and death through sin, and death spread to all men because they had all sinned'"""..... And you assert...."So Adam's death penalty was automatically passed onto all his offspring and we die as a result."
DOESN"T MAKE IT TRUE.

genetically it must have been because you have already shown that some people were considered by God to be righteous and good and yet they still died.

Read Deuteronomy 24:16 again...
Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.

According to the Hebrew Scriptures, we don't die for Adam's sin.

If you find any Scripture to the contrary ...then the Bible has a contradiction.
BigRed

you are assuming that the sin this verse speaks of is Adams sin.... i am not assuming that and Paul makes the differentiating between the two

Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam

So Paul here shows that he is not speaking about individual sin... he is speaking about the consequences of Adams sin, death, which 'spread' to all mankind.

 

[Pegg]

No Adam and Eve are not alive.
They died because God denied them access to the tree of life.
When they continued to eat the fruit of the tree of life they continued to live.
But just as we need oxygen to live, Adam and Eve needed the fruit of the tree of life to keep on living.
God snuffed out their lives by depriving them of the nutrition of the fruit, just as you will die if someone slowly deprives you of oxygen.

BigRed

ok, so you think the tree was literal, thats fine.

So that 'literal' tree was to provide them the nutrients they needed to stay alive...they were prevented from eating that tree

why would God also prevent their children, who did not commit the sin of disobedience, from eating from that tree?

 

[Pegg]

And Jesus died....and people continue to die.
BigRed

he didnt die, he was killed... big difference there.

All good things will come in Gods due time.

 

[BigRed]

thats correct, our own sins will be held against us individually and my fathers sin will not be held against me or vice versa

however, genetic inheritence is assured. If my father has a genetic condition, that can be passed onto all his children.
The consequences of Adams sin was that God prevented him from living indefinitely. Whatever God did to prevent Adams body from continually regenerating itself was passed onto us genetically.

You cant get something perfect out of something imperfect. My guess is that God manipulated the telomeres, which are found in the chromosomes, so that the body would eventually die. He can undo that just as easily.



genetically it must have been because you have already shown that some people were considered by God to be righteous and good and yet they still died.




you are assuming that the sin this verse speaks of is Adams sin.... i am not assuming that and Paul makes the differentiating between the two

Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam

So Paul here shows that he is not speaking about individual sin... he is speaking about the consequences of Adams sin, death, which 'spread' to all mankind.

Romans 5:14 ""Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.""

Why did Paul write ""from Adam until Moses""?
Answer...When Moses passed on to the nation of Israel the LAW Covenant, sin was no longer a problem. Israel had a perfect system for getting rid of sin.
So why did they need someone to die for their sins? If someone could even die for another's sins????

BigRed

 

[BigRed]

he didnt die, he was killed... big difference there.

All good things will come in Gods due time.

I get it. He arranged his own death. Suicide by Roman.

BigRed

 

[BigRed]

ok, so you think the tree was literal, thats fine.

So that 'literal' tree was to provide them the nutrients they needed to stay alive...they were prevented from eating that tree

why would God also prevent their children, who did not commit the sin of disobedience, from eating from that tree?

Adam and Eve didn't have children until they left the garden.

BigRed

 

[BigRed]

no amount of animal sacrifices could remove Adamic sin from us or the jews.. only God can remove it by allowing us to live rather then die

this is why after 6,000 years of human history, people are still dying...even the ones who were getting thing right with God...even the ones who God said were upright and righteous..even the man Job who God said was 'perfect' still died.

Think about it....Adam ate God's "apple." At best it would be petty theft.
The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

BigRed

 

[Pegg]

Romans 5:14 ""Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.""

Why did Paul write ""from Adam until Moses""?
Answer...When Moses passed on to the nation of Israel the LAW Covenant, sin was no longer a problem. Israel had a perfect system for getting rid of sin.
So why did they need someone to die for their sins? If someone could even die for another's sins????

BigRed

no, the answer is found in the previous verse

13 For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law, nevertheless, death ruled as king...

between the time of Adam and Moses, there was no Law set out by God...everyone did what they thought best and no one had sin held against them. They all died without laws yet death ruled as king which shows that they were dying as a result of Adams death. But from the time of Moses on, Gods laws were available and those laws were leading people to the Messiah...the one who could remove death from ruling as king because thru the messiah, people could have life.

 

[Pegg]

Adam and Eve didn't have children until they left the garden.

BigRed

that doesnt explain why those children, who never committed the sin that Adam committed, weren't allowed to eat of the tree of life

Earlier you said that sin is not passed onto the children which i agree with... but it seems the consequences of ones sin can be passed on.

 

[BigRed]

Moses spoke to ALL Israel.
Deuteronomy 29:10-15
10"You stand today, all of you, before the LORD your God: your chiefs, your tribes, your elders and your officers, even all the men of Israel,
11your little ones, your wives, and the alien who is within your camps, from the one who chops your wood to the one who draws your water,
12that you may enter into the covenant with the LORD your God, and into His oath which the LORD your God is making with you today,
13in order that He may establish you today as His people and that He may be your God, just as He spoke to you and as He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
14"Now not with you alone am I making this covenant and this oath,
15but both with those who stand here with us today in the presence of the LORD our God and with those who are not with us here today
Notice verse 15. After listing all possible persons who are Israel, Moses says “both with those who stand here with us today in the presence of the LORD our God and with those who are not with us here today.” So who were not there that day? Answer…Future Generations of Israel.
Moses said….Deuteronomy 30:1-5
1"So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you,
2and you return to the LORD your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons,
3then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you.
4"If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back.
5"The LORD your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.
Here is the BIG QUESTION….Has this been fulfilled?
Has ALL Israel been gathered up and brought back to the land?
A few of the tribe of Judah have come back. But what about the lost tribes?
What about all the generations that have died?
It is obvious that this passage has not been fulfilled.
So when Christians claim that the Law has been fulfilled by Jesus, they are not correct.
　
BigRed

 

[Pegg]

Think about it....Adam ate God's "apple." At best it would be petty theft.
The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

BigRed

it was far more then that.

God is the universal sovereign and as such he is in a position that all his creation must acknowledge and respect. As the sovereign, he has the right to determine right from wrong, good from bad...he has the right and the authority to establish the rules

we as his subjects have the responsibility to remain subject to him, to obey him and to respect his authority

The tree gave adam and eve an opportunity to express their respect and acknowledgment of Gods position... but they failed to respect his position by willfully disobeying his directive.

 

[Pegg]

Here is the BIG QUESTION….Has this been fulfilled?
Has ALL Israel been gathered up and brought back to the land?
A few of the tribe of Judah have come back. But what about the lost tribes?
What about all the generations that have died?
It is obvious that this passage has not been fulfilled.
So when Christians claim that the Law has been fulfilled by Jesus, they are not correct.
　
BigRed

you'll find your fulfillment to this prophecy in Nehemiah chapters 2

When the jews were released from their captivity in Babylon, Nehemiah led them back to their homeland from the places where they had been dispersed, jerusalem was rebuilt and the people returned to their homeland.

However, a far greater fulfillment has occurred in our days.

 

[Pegg]

Turns out you are the one who needs delivering

you two have been going it at for quite a few pages now ... how about you kiss and make up and keep this thread interesting

 

[smokydot]

My complaint was that he had no clue what he was doing, other than ripping off some dictionary.

Assumes facts not in evidence. . .given the lie here ---> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2323499-post673.html

His later posts clarify that point.

Uh huh. . .his posts didn't clarify it. . .It was Harmonious who showed your error. . .

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Turns out you are the one who needs delivering

That's EXACTLY what I said.

US. I said US. I meant myself and every other reader with any knowledge of Hebrew.

 

[smokydot]

Apparently it's something that you can plagiarize. Unlike any other work under the sun.
And you can just make up anything about how the definitions are used in syntax and grammar.
I knew it was a concordance because of how little information it provided you to exploit.

Assumes facts not in evidence. . .again! . .given the lie here ---> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2323499-post673.html

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Assumes facts not in evidence. . .given the lie here ---> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2323499-post673.html
Uh huh. . .his posts didn't clarify it. . .It was Harmonious who showed your error. . .

You have a severe reading problem.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

1) Working your butt off doesn't mean you own the damn language! . it doesn't give you proprietary rights over it.

2) "making up something; making stuff up". . .assumes facts not in evidence, per (2), (6,b) @ http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2318652-post514.html

3) And, of course, you know all there is to know, and there couldn't be anyone who knows more than you, and emphatically disagrees with you, could there?

Your vanity is showing. . .

It means that one can spot a fraud such as yourself rather easily.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Yep, it does. . .and that's where I got it.

You got it from the Hebrew?

Really?

Not having read the Hebrew, how on earth can you say that you "got it from the Hebrew?"

Seems that you got it from the English -- and rather thoughtless, as we've shown.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Man, you're coming unhinged!

I hate being lied to and then being told that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm sure you might find that a little aggravating.