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By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You reject the specific science of biology based on reasons that have nothing to do with the validity of the science. I would bet that you don't understand the science behind the technology that you do accept. It just seems silly to me to go on as if you have done some sort of thorough vetting of it all to come to your conclusions. I've read your posts.
Nonsense. Elements and chemicals were put together for the Urey Miller experiment. And fuzz seemed to come about with nothing else. It's like when I pour soda into a cup, there's fuzz involved. You really don't know what happened and how it happened. Nope, sorry, life itself tells me that it simply could NOT have come about by evolution as explained by most scientists.
So go beyond evolution. How in fact do you think he is your savior? From -- what? Or for what? But I don't think you want to talk about it. :)
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
God made the rules and it’s the Bible
No. These are rules you have made based on your own beliefs. If that is how you want to believe, have it at it, but you can't tell others that they are not believers. That is authority you don't have.

Believing in the Bible and a literal interpretation of the Bible are not synonyms.

Anyway, thanks for sharing. As always, it is a learning experience.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No. These are rules you have made based on your own beliefs. If that is how you want to believe, have it at it, but you can't tell others that they are not believers. That is authority you don't have.

Believing in the Bible and a literal interpretation of the Bible are not synonyms.

Anyway, thanks for sharing. As always, it is a learning experience.
Listen, you keep talking about literal interpretations. So do you believe Jesus LITERALLY raised the dead and after his resurrection ascended to heaven? Or was that mythical, too?
 
No. These are rules you have made based on your own beliefs. If that is how you want to believe, have it at it, but you can't tell others that they are not believers. That is authority you don't have.

Believing in the Bible and a literal interpretation of the Bible are not synonyms.

Anyway, thanks for sharing. As always, it is a learning experience.
Do you believe God’s way?

”Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.“
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭1‬-‭3‬, ‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
What I'm curious about is people that claim to be joyous in the Lord, but are so bent on tearing everyone else down that claims the same just because they're a little different in their ideology. I can't reconcile the claims with the behavior.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I wasn't aware that I had to meet your demands. Wow. You guys have a lot of Authority in your view.
Look, I read the Bible, I went to church and other places of worship. So -- why bother explaining how you're saved, if, of course, the Bible is basically based on myths and evolution is true.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
”All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.“
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
That's about wrongdoing by the individual, not about damnation inherited from Adam and Eve.

Everyone has sinned except Jesus, so all you show me is you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I didn't say there were people who'd never done something wrong. I said that according to Ezekiel sin can't be inherited and therefore "original sin" is impossible. I also pointed out that Paul is mistaken and there is nothing in Genesis about original sin.

That we should answer to those we've wronged is a totally different thing, and a totally different morality, in that we ─ or some of us ─ try to redress our wrongdoing because it's wrong in this life, here and now. Endless torment is either a primitive nonsense or a grotesque blot on God's morality. If, as [his] billing says, God is benevolent, and has half a brain, [he]'ll heal miscreants, not punish them forever.

As for Jesus not sinning, I'd say assaulting the changers in the temple with a whip, when they were lawfully conducting their traditional business, would be criminal conduct in any modern jurisdiction; and if he had any argument about the practice, instead of his petulant display, he should have taken it up with the Temple authorities, since they, unlike the traders, were capable of changing it. And did Jesus ever pay the owner of the Gaderene swine he killed?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What I'm curious about is people that claim to be joyous in the Lord, but are so bent on tearing everyone else down that claims the same just because they're a little different in their ideology. I can't reconcile the claims with the behavior.
When the apostles went before the Sanhedrin, the Sanhedrin didn't like their testimony or preaching, did they? No, they did not. Acts 5:
The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28“We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”
29Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! 30The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

Thank you for reminding me of this scripture.
 
Well, this is the problem, your judgement is off, surprised you’re taking the den of robbers side and going against the people who needed healing. It was His House.

”For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: “Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;“
‭‭I Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

”Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.’ ” Then the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them. But when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that He did, and the children crying out in the temple and saying, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant and said to Him, “Do You hear what these are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes. Have you never read, ‘Out of the mouth of babes and nursing infants You have perfected praise’?”“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21‬:‭12‬-‭16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well, this is the problem, your judgement is off, surprised you’re taking the den of robbers side and going against the people who needed healing. It was His House.
Then why did he take to bashing the traders, who were there with all proper permissions and with the further justification of tradition, and not with the Temple authorities, who were the only ones who could have effected change?

And did he ever pay compensation to the owner of the pigs? If he didn't, why isn't that lawless destruction of the property of another?

”For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: “Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;“
‭‭I Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
The author of I Peter was, as I've pointed out, mistaken. We may guess they were not his pigs.
 
Then why did he take to bashing the traders, who were there with all proper permissions and with the further justification of tradition, and not with the Temple authorities, who were the only ones who could have effected change?

And did he ever pay compensation to the owner of the pigs? If he didn't, why isn't that lawless destruction of the property of another?


The author of I Peter was, as I've pointed out, mistaken. We may guess they were not his pigs.
He owns everything:
”The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein. For He has founded it upon the seas, And established it upon the waters.“
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭24‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Without spot, perfect

”But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.“
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9‬:‭11‬-‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You’re badly mistaken- more worried about the pigs, the money instead of people. Funny you take issue with Jesus Christ on this.
 
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blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He owns everything:
”The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein. For He has founded it upon the seas, And established it upon the waters.“
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭24‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Without spot, perfect

You’re badly mistaken- more worried about the pigs, the money instead of people. Funny you take issue with Jesus Christ on this.
Ah. I see that in your opinion you can assault lawful traders with a weapon, causing them personal and economic injury, even though they're irrelevant to the change you say you wish to effect, which appears to be to put an end to trading in the temple.

And you can seize and destroy the property of others whenever it pleases you and for no better reason than that you find it personally convenient to what you're trying to do at the time.

And you'll still be perfect.

I assume you conduct yourself accordingly.

Do I have that right?
 
Ah. I see that in your opinion you can assault lawful traders with a weapon, causing them personal and economic injury, even though they're irrelevant to the change you say you wish to effect, which appears to be to put an end to trading in the temple.

And you can seize and destroy the property of others whenever it pleases you and for no better reason than that you find it personally convenient to what you're trying to do at the time.

And you'll still be perfect.

I assume you conduct yourself accordingly.

Do I have that right?
No, you have that wrong, try again tomorrow.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
What?? How on earth has anyone demonstrated that?
Study of the brain. They also know that bitter thoughts produce chemicals that are detrimental to the body if held over long periods of time just as they have found that laughing and happiness produces chemicals that are healthy for your body.

Reminds me of a scripture that says “A merry heart does good like a medicine"

Now I know why Jesus emphasized so much about forgiveness. It’s healthy.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The bible says nothing of the kind. That's some human's view being wished on the text.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Obviously there would be exceptions but tell a religious Jewish person that their TaNaKh was not inspired by God… I’m not sure you would find agreement. But, again, there are always exceptions because you can even find atheistic Jewish people
What sin nature? Have you not by now carefully re-read Genesis 2 and 3?
Ephesians 2:3
among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.


And as I showed you, according to the Tanakh, sin can't be inherited, hence 'original sin' is impossible.

I don’t think that is referencing our sin nature. But the nature of the given propensity of sin, is within us. Unless you can say you have never sinned.

Additionally, and quite separately from that, the idea that the child must hang for its remote ancestor's alleged crimes is absurd, unjust, arbitrary, disgusting.
Ok - agreed.
Only the Jesus of Matthew and the Jesus of Luke were said to be born of a virgin.

By the witness of two not to mention the context in the TaNaKh.
The Jesus of Mark was an ordinary Jew until God adopted him as [his] son the same way [he]'d adopted David in Psalm 2:7.

No… not quite but some truth. David had the Holy Spirit rest on him and maybe even the soul… but was never filled with the Holy Spirit as Jesus was. Not to mention David sinned and Jesus didn’t.
The Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John are never said to be born of a virgin, an inexplicable omission if the claim were thought historical. Instead their parentages are never explained.
I don’t think that is the issue. There was no need to have every author declare what was already known.

Those two, unlike the synoptic Jesuses, pre-existed in heaven with God and created the material universe (you'll recognize the gnostic demiurge in that).
Exactly! Notice that the other authors didn’t have to declare what was already known.

Gnosticism may intersect at some point but it is still wrong,.

As to how they came to earth, we have to guess.

Not really. It is pretty clear IMU
Since the claim is made that they were descended from David, I assume they respectively entered the zygote of a Jewish couple at the moment of conception, but of course that's entirely guesswork. (Not guesswork about history, of course, but guesswork as to what those authors might have written if pressed on the topic.)
Not really. Jesus was born through a Jewish woman but still was birthed (created) by the Holy Spirit and The Word. So, in the legal sense, he was of the line of David but in the spiritual sense was not. Remember, Ruth was not “Jewish” in the zygote sense but was still in David’s lineage.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
@metis -- here's one explanation, not that I understand it all, but here it is:
'The last rites have not been eliminated. What many Catholics do not understand, though, is that the "last rites" encompass several Sacraments, including Penance (confession of sins), Viaticum (Holy Communion given as food for the journey to eternal life) and the Anointing of the Sick." Last Rites | St. Michael Catholic Church.

"Anointing of the Sick" replaces "Last Rights".
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Study of the brain. They also know that bitter thoughts produce chemicals that are detrimental to the body if held over long periods of time just as they have found that laughing and happiness produces chemicals that are healthy for your body.

Reminds me of a scripture that says “A merry heart does good like a medicine"

Know I know why Jesus emphasized so much about forgiveness. It’s healthy.
which reminds me of the illustration Jesus gave about the prodigal son. His brother wasn't too forgiving, but the dad reminded him that he should be happy he repented. This goes to our inner nature.
 
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