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Buddhism and God: What's the problem?
- Thread starter AfterGlow
- Start date
Brother Michael Sky
New Member
I would think, as stated above, that it was the externalization of "God" from the self, that was the issue the Buddha was referring to. Using God as a crutch. Not taking personal responsibility for one's actions and desires.
I personally do not understand how any one who could meditate deeply could feel a need to debate a Supreme Being. Meditation is not simple relaxation, but the doorway to Higher Spheres. The Hindus had much information to share pertaining to other and higher spheres - the Buddha would have been aware of such. The Buddha would have EXPERIENCED such, but the God concepts which the words refer to ( from surrounding lands ) would have been seen as unhelpful, to say the least.
I think the Buddha did not speak of Divinity as it was a simple experience away for one who was practicing deep and proper meditation.
but that's just my opinion, and we've all got them...
I personally do not understand how any one who could meditate deeply could feel a need to debate a Supreme Being. Meditation is not simple relaxation, but the doorway to Higher Spheres. The Hindus had much information to share pertaining to other and higher spheres - the Buddha would have been aware of such. The Buddha would have EXPERIENCED such, but the God concepts which the words refer to ( from surrounding lands ) would have been seen as unhelpful, to say the least.
I think the Buddha did not speak of Divinity as it was a simple experience away for one who was practicing deep and proper meditation.
but that's just my opinion, and we've all got them...
Now who is the punny guy!!!! :jester5:
Brother Michael Sky
New Member
Glad to. I have only my own personal experience to go on, so what you get is not from a particular school of thought, simply my own.
I am referring to meditation to very deep levels, where awareness of the physical is superseded. Beyond the flittering conscious thoughts which play across the surface of the mind.
I am talking about going deep enough to access the subconscious in not so subtle ways.
At which point I become aware of a magnificent, unbelievably large presence. Which I feel is the "God" everyone is referring to, and IMO, it is inescapable and undeniable.
I am of the opinion that too many folks use meditation to simply relax, when that is like using a ferrari to trot off to the market. Reaching the deeper levels of meditation requires discipline and time - which most are simply not willing to put into it.
edit: I entered this thread because Buddhism led me to meditation, and I wondered what problem was being referred to - I don't see one.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Meditation is directness. Whether it be Insight or Shikantaza. It appears based on your posting you are entertaining specific effects and apparently ignoring poignant factors that would actually bring you to those "deeper levels".
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Where?
Brother Michael Sky
New Member
Brother Michael Sky
New Member
what is the point of binding oneself to processes and images? Folks concentrate on the process and make sure they " get it right " to the point of exclusion of genuine experience... I believe there is much confusion about the term "meditation"
I am familiar with zazen - and believe I have reached very deep states - states which begin to seem " High " in their depth. I translate it all to vibration and the amplitude which I am interested in. I have not found a limit to the range and at it's highest points ( which I have discovered) there is AWARENESS... other than my own, and immense.. the only thing it relates to in my experience is Godhead.
I am genuinely confused by the debate...
I am familiar with zazen - and believe I have reached very deep states - states which begin to seem " High " in their depth. I translate it all to vibration and the amplitude which I am interested in. I have not found a limit to the range and at it's highest points ( which I have discovered) there is AWARENESS... other than my own, and immense.. the only thing it relates to in my experience is Godhead.
I am genuinely confused by the debate...
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Brother Micheal Sky,
Still the mind and when finally only CONSCIOUSNESS / AWARENESS remains i.e. the personally awareness that is *YOU* no more remains [by merging] then all confusions will evaporate.
Love & rgds
n.b. There are no problem or confusion except few mind delusions getting sorted here
Though you speak of *MEDITATION*, your mind is stilling getting confused by small things.
Still the mind and when finally only CONSCIOUSNESS / AWARENESS remains i.e. the personally awareness that is *YOU* no more remains [by merging] then all confusions will evaporate.
Love & rgds
n.b. There are no problem or confusion except few mind delusions getting sorted here
Brother Michael Sky
New Member
I thoroughly appreciate your pushing words you do not seem to understand at me, but that does absolutely nothing to provide a personal viewpoint in opposition to mine own. What, do you suppose, you are " merging" with?
My confusion arises from a thread which apparently misses the forest for the trees. It is a matter of my viewpoint on the very same occurrence being so vastly different in perspective from the one being shared by the thread title.
I present my views to be told " I'm not doing something right" LOL...that's very funny - you mean not doing right from which school of thoughts book? irrelevant, am I right? where is the other sides personal experience? I was hoping for someone to point out where my experience is diverging from their own, in their own experience. I was not here to consult with the masters, lol... too funny...
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The "goal" of Zazen is not entertaining mayko nor is suddenly focusing on any manner of notable sensations including common perceptions that arise involving awareness to which you can categorize as reaching "deep states", immensity or whatever. No such thing at least not in a permanent sense. Sorry. Sounds like your just blissing out on the cool awesome stuff that arises. Dont blame you however for stopping to gawk and gaze at the coolness of it all. I would think we all do that from time to time and a lot of us stop to say we hit the mother load.
With further practice and disipline you can experience a relasation akin to the tumblers of a lock as a Roshi of whom I had conversed with did in mentioning as he proceeded to lock the Zendo for the night. He described the uncanniness and clarity of the sound from the tumblers as he was turning the key. A profound effect resulting from much practice.
Yet the difference is this described experience (Roshi) is not something categorical to other instances to which one can accurately describe as being a level of awareness or achievement of a deep state of meditation. That alone should tell you something just by the way one structures the experience.
Just continue with Zazen as one does and acknowledge whatever arises and let the bliss pass on like anything else, and you will get unstuck in no time. That's the pathway to the "deep" where you swallow the whole fish dude.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You know reading between the lines might make you cross-eyed good friend Zenzero. *grin* ;O)
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Nowhere Man,
To elaborate on the point *dropping of the mind*
Mind is there is a reality and that masters are those who have been able to master their own minds.
Dropping of the mind is akin to dropping of leaves by the trees. There is no effort by the tree to drop it but still when the season comes they drop of their own accord and it is immaterial where it drops as the tree never dropped it using its mind.
Usually go with stilling the mind as on stilling it [mind] drops on its own accord though it keeps coming back season after season till buddhahood is reached when the grass/tree grows by itself.
Love & rgds
To elaborate on the point *dropping of the mind*
Mind is there is a reality and that masters are those who have been able to master their own minds.
Dropping of the mind is akin to dropping of leaves by the trees. There is no effort by the tree to drop it but still when the season comes they drop of their own accord and it is immaterial where it drops as the tree never dropped it using its mind.
Usually go with stilling the mind as on stilling it [mind] drops on its own accord though it keeps coming back season after season till buddhahood is reached when the grass/tree grows by itself.
Love & rgds
koan
Active Member
Zenzero, your use of terms, such as, dropping the mind, may be confusing. Why not try and elaborate on what you mean instead of using a term as if one is a master talking to a student. What Nowhere man says is pretty good. Bliss, pain, monkey mind etc. are all just part of the mind. Of course bliss is definitely more pleasant than pain, though this as well is not the goal of meditation. The goal is samahdi. Whence this is achieved, there is no pain, no bliss, no monkey mind etc. and no meditator . Or as Zenzero likes to say, the mind is dropped.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend koan,
Thank you for your response.
Apologies! if the response had been perceived as being a master of the mind but yes did mention that masters are those who have mastered their own minds and so they are addressed as masters.
Also, thank you for explaining in a better way about the topic *dropping the mind*.
Love & rgds
Thank you for your response.
Apologies! if the response had been perceived as being a master of the mind but yes did mention that masters are those who have mastered their own minds and so they are addressed as masters.
Also, thank you for explaining in a better way about the topic *dropping the mind*.
Love & rgds