Boredom during meditation?

[Chisti]

Hi,

Buddhists often say one should observe boredom, but I am not sure how. It's the same old thing, same old thoughts and feelings, so what's there to observe?

I hope to hear from someone who's experienced these things during meditation. Not necessarily Buddhists but people who have some sort of experience.

Chisti

 

[sandandfoam]

Hi Chisti.

What's boredom?

 

[Chisti]

Hi Chisti.

What's boredom?

Hmm, it's when things are no longer new. There's monotony of experience.

 

[sandandfoam]

Hmm, it's when things are no longer new. There's monotony of experience.

But surely if one sees life as flow and flux as I understand a buddhist does things are always new?

Certainly in my experience boredom doesn't arise and I lead a pretty hum drum life. I always feel excitement in life. Even just sitting there.

I suggest that boredom indicates a deficit in thinking rather than circumstances?

 

[Chisti]

But surely if one sees life as flow and flux as I understand a buddhist does things are always new?

Certainly in my experience boredom doesn't arise and I lead a pretty hum drum life. I always feel excitement in life. Even just sitting there.

I suggest that boredom indicates a deficit in thinking rather than circumstances?

I thought about that as well, but in Buddhism (and our experiences confirm this) flow and flux don't necessarily translate to something radically new each moment. Let's say there are a dozen images falling on the screen every moment. So technically, there is change every moment, but is there anything new? It is simply a repetition of old patterns.

The same thing could be applied to our minds as well. Thoughts also are changing all the time, but that still doesn't give birth to anything new - hence the boredom.

 

[AllMantra]

Boredom is a common hindrance in my meditation practice, I class it up there with doubt, fatigue and discursive thought. The only recourse I have in working with these afflictions is detachment, which for me is a product of allowing my object of concentration to drift back to the center of my field of consciousness. I can't really make that happen, rather it just happens naturally (if I let it). So I guess I don't so much observe boredom as I ignore it. Kinda hard to let that happen though, and I don't claim to be skilled at doing so, but the point is that I continue to practice despite the difficulty and I hope you do the same.

 

[sandandfoam]

I think if I felt that way I'd change.
Look out (or in ) at this infinite universe from a different perspective and surely the wonder will return?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hi,

Buddhists often say one should observe boredom, but I am not sure how. It's the same old thing, same old thoughts and feelings, so what's there to observe?

I hope to hear from someone who's experienced these things during meditation. Not necessarily Buddhists but people who have some sort of experience.

Chisti

You know your bored, whenever your bored. ;O)

 

[YmirGF]

Hi,

Buddhists often say one should observe boredom, but I am not sure how. It's the same old thing, same old thoughts and feelings, so what's there to observe?

I hope to hear from someone who's experienced these things during meditation. Not necessarily Buddhists but people who have some sort of experience.

Chisti

I have never experience this boredom you speak of. My suggestion is that there are no boring meditations, just boring minds of boring people who do not understand what meditation really is.

 

[Breathe]

Dear Chisti, may I ask your mindset when you attempt meditation?

If you are bored, or become bored, during meditation, then are you attempting to do it because you "have" to do/try it? Or are you meditating because you're stressed, or for other reasons?

I don't recall boredom during meditation, but I've been meditating for quite a while, so I guess I may not remember.

What method of meditation are you using? Mantra? Breath-awareness? Sit and face a wall with your eyes half closed? The method you use at this moment may not be for you.

If you're a bit iffy with using mantras because you're concerned it may be shirk, then pick a verse or two from the Quran that you love, and use that.

 

[Chisti]

Dear Chisti, may I ask your mindset when you attempt meditation?

If you are bored, or become bored, during meditation, then are you attempting to do it because you "have" to do/try it? Or are you meditating because you're stressed, or for other reasons?

I don't recall boredom during meditation, but I've been meditating for quite a while, so I guess I may not remember.

What method of meditation are you using? Mantra? Breath-awareness? Sit and face a wall with your eyes half closed? The method you use at this moment may not be for you.

If you're a bit iffy with using mantras because you're concerned it may be shirk, then pick a verse or two from the Quran that you love, and use that.

It's more like zen meditation, sitting down and doing nothing. To be totally empty. I thought this was the highest goal; other meditation will keep us in illusion because they depend on words, forms etc.

 

[Breathe]

It's more like zen meditation, sitting down and doing nothing. To be totally empty. I thought this was the highest goal; other meditation will keep us in illusion because they depend on words, forms etc.

There are 84,000 Dharma-doors to liberation, my friend. Some people function differently to others. For some people, attempting to sit in silence and doing nothing will not help one meditate - as is the case with you.

These things only contain the weight that you give them: all sounds are merely sounds. It is not the sounds that keep one in illusion, but you keep yourself in illusion by thinking that they do that in the first place. Attempting to do something because it is empty, in my view, will probably lead you to attach to the emptiness. Attaching to emptiness can be just as unproductive for removing one from illusion as attachment to things - it's still, in effect, attachment.

Also, nobody says you have to keep to one style of meditation. The use of mantras or breath awareness, for example, could help you learn to become accustomed to stilling the "monkey-mind".


This fool's two cents.

 

[sandandfoam]

It's more like zen meditation, sitting down and doing nothing. To be totally empty. I thought this was the highest goal; other meditation will keep us in illusion because they depend on words, forms etc.

I heard Ymir say before to be careful what we wish for as we approach meditation. I thought that was good advice.
I do not wish to be totally empty because if I look deep into my mind I find not a void but rather a richness beyond words.
I read today in a neuroscience text that the simple self at the base of mind is like music but not yet poetry.
I thought that really hit the nail on the head.
I think the purpose of meditation is to cultivate the music inside our head and make it poetry.
This seems to me a difficult task because consciousness offers such a narrow window on mind. I imagine meditation is the practice of pulling the curtains back on this window. I imagine those who are very well practiced can pull them back far enough that the window disappears - but that is mere speculation on my part.
I wouldn't embark on a search for emptiness because I might trick myself into believing that I'd found it. And that would strike me as a waste.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think perhaps in the first few months or so of meditation, it could be boring. But after awhile, its more like a tightrope. If it remains boring, you need a new technique or what you're doing isn't meditation. (by my definition ... some forms of relaxation are termed 'meditation') So keep at it.

Of course there is also the concept of readiness. Just as in development of the physical body, at some point only are you ready to be toilet trained, walk, read, etc. So if you're not ready for meditation, then you're basically wasting your time. The readiness comes over many lifetimes so the soul needs to be advanced or old enough to be ready. So if the readiness equation is in place, it won't be boring.

 

[YmirGF]

It's more like zen meditation, sitting down and doing nothing. To be totally empty. I thought this was the highest goal; other meditation will keep us in illusion because they depend on words, forms etc.

To be empty is not the highest goal. That is a misunderstanding, taken somewhat literally. What is needed is to empty oneself of desire and thoughts. That is not boring, but a very active pursuit and I am completely perplexed how that activity could ever become boring. It is sort of like removing the layers of wrapping from a present. You can't sit there in awe until you have removed (emptied) the layers of packaging. Once you have done that you just sit and smile at the wonderful thing you are now able to behold. It's much harder to do than it is to describe.

 

[Chisti]

To be empty is not the highest goal. That is a misunderstanding, taken somewhat literally. What is needed is to empty oneself of desire and thoughts. That is not boring, but a very active pursuit and I am completely perplexed how that activity could ever become boring. It is sort of like removing the layers of wrapping from a present. You can't sit there in awe until you have removed (emptied) the layers of packaging. Once you have done that you just sit and smile at the wonderful thing you are now able to behold. It's much harder to do than it is to describe.

Okay, that makes it clear. But how does one go about emptying the mind? The mind is not like a vessel where once you pour out the contents, it becomes empty. It is like a stream, so how does emptying work here?

 

[sandandfoam]

Okay, that makes it clear. But how does one go about emptying the mind? The mind is not like a vessel where once you pour out the contents, it becomes empty. It is like a stream, so how does emptying work here?

Hi Chisti,
Obviously I can't answer for Ymir but I wonder if emptying just means watching the stream as it flows without distracting yourself with fidgeting?

 

[YmirGF]

Okay, that makes it clear. But how does one go about emptying the mind? The mind is not like a vessel where once you pour out the contents, it becomes empty. It is like a stream, so how does emptying work here?

You simply watch your thoughts. Become aware when you are thinking... and then gently ease away from becoming enmeshed in the act of thinking, by observing them. It might sound odd, but at a stage, thought whorls become quite pretty things to see, almost like mini constellations wheeling by your focus of attention.

At the risk of people thinking, I am describing Tinnitus, which I am not, when one is "transcending" there is a very soft, slightly metallic ringing sound. If you focus on that sound, you will not be focusing on your thoughts and can soon begin to be like a surfer, surfing the ebbs and crests of that internal sound wave. As one spirals inwards, the sound may become stronger until you arrive at its source.

 

[Chisti]

Hi Chisti,
Obviously I can't answer for Ymir but I wonder if emptying just means watching the stream as it flows without distracting yourself with fidgeting?

That's the thing. Watching something outside of you is easy. Once we watch ourselves, we get involved. And then we catch ourselves getting involved, detach ourselves to observe again ... and thus the game endures. It becomes tiring and monotonous after a while.

 

[Chisti]

You simply watch your thoughts. Become aware when you are thinking... and then gently ease away from becoming enmeshed in the act of thinking, by observing them. It might sound odd, but at a stage, thought whorls become quite pretty things to see, almost like mini constellations wheeling by your focus of attention.

At the risk of people thinking, I am describing Tinnitus, which I am not, when one is "transcending" there is a very soft, slightly metallic ringing sound. If you focus on that sound, you will not be focusing on your thoughts and can soon begin to be like a surfer, surfing the ebbs and crests of that internal sound wave. As one spirals inwards, the sound may become stronger until you arrive at its source.

Could you explain this sound a bit more? I've never heard this before and might be interested.

Also we think, we don't observe thinking. That's been my experience all along.