Bill Maher - Somehow He Just Makes Sense!

[lewisnotmiller]

Anyone who frequently uses a private jet for convenience should not be taken seriously when they talk about the environment.

It's like someone with their billions in a tax haven telling others to make sure they pay their taxes in full.

It is the epitome of virtue signalling, and they are basically saying "you plebs need to change your behaviour otherwise you might cause problems for my lifestyle".

He basically calls himself out on the fact that he's aging, has no children, and will be dead before his lifestyle choices impact. He's not virtue-signalling at all, in any instances I've heard.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I bet you that nine years from now he writes a book about why he has converted to Christianity, and he will get an endorsement from Jordan Peterson. And I'll be in my fifties.

I am probably wrong, but I know one thing for sure: the future is weird.

Yep, I'd take that bet for as much as you like.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

What did he say about the pandemic? Was he a denier of actions taken to slow the spread? The US was lucky. New York City was hit hard because they have such a high population density the actions came to late for them. But for less populous aeras it seems to have kept the hospitals from crashing.

Never mind. I am not sure about the source but he does not do well in the twee in the link:

WATCH: Bill Maher claims 'the way we handled the pandemic' caused collateral damage

Tyson tried to explain what was wrong with his reasoning.

He believed it should have been a more targeted lockdown, etc. Basically, protect those at risk (aged, infirm) and leave everyone else alone.
From my point of view, he is too much against medical concensus, and too fringey on the issue for me. Having said that, he did have some good points at times about freedom of expression, etc.
And he vaccinated.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He believed it should have been a more targeted lockdown, etc. Basically, protect those at risk (aged, infirm) and leave everyone else alone.
From my point of view, he is too much against medical concensus, and too fringey on the issue for me. Having said that, he did have some good points at times about freedom of expression, etc.
And he vaccinated.

The problem is that a targeted lock down is very hard to enforce. Too many people would still visit grandma, especially if she asked. It was harsh. And there was a price to pay. That part was right. But I do not think that there was a reasonable and reliable alternative.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I would put celebrities in general and YouTube influencers in a completely different category.

I think there's a big difference between some random celebrity ---say an actor, athlete, or musician --- pontificating on things they don't really have any clear grasp of, and political comedians like, say, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, Stephan Colbert, and Bill Maher.

The former is just preaching to an audience that's already there, an audience composed in large part of people who are going to listen and believe what they say just because they're fans. They don't need to be accurate or even make sense, a lot of people are going to be nodding along anyway.

A Youtube influencer can make a living spouting nonsense as long as it's popular nonsense, ie., nonsense with its own built-in fan base, nonsense that already has an audience that the influencer can exploit.

On the other hand, a political comedian makes his living by pointing out the obvious, and in order for something to be obvious it has to be grounded in truth.

A political comedian's celebrity depends on his ability to make us aware of fundamental contradictions and absurdities in our society. Unless he can do all that effectively he doesn't have an audience.

In a nutshell I would say that it's a political comedians job to make us think, whereas the people in those other groups just tell you what to think.

That's a good distinction, and I do agree that celebrities tend to have a wider reach.

I have found Maher not to be very effective in recent years, personally, and I think in this day and age, a political commentator, whether a comedian or not, may be able to gain traction just by appealing to people's prejudices without necessarily being consistent or accurate. Tucker Carlson seems to me a perfect example of this.

I liked Jon Stewart the most when it came to pointing out absurdities and making people think through his usage of satire.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's a good distinction, and I do agree that celebrities tend to have a wider reach.

I have found Maher not to be very effective in recent years, personally, and I think in this day and age, a political commentator, whether a comedian or not, may be able to gain traction just by appealing to people's prejudices without necessarily being consistent or accurate. Tucker Carlson seems to me a perfect example of this.

I liked Jon Stewart the most when it came to pointing out absurdities and making people think through his usage of satire.

I find Tucker Carlson to be highly reliable. When he says something I know how to act.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What did he say about the pandemic? Was he a denier of actions taken to slow the spread? The US was lucky. New York City was hit hard because they have such a high population density the actions came to late for them. But for less populous aeras it seems to have kept the hospitals from crashing.

Never mind. I am not sure about the source but he does not do well in the twee in the link:

WATCH: Bill Maher claims 'the way we handled the pandemic' caused collateral damage

Tyson tried to explain what was wrong with his reasoning.

He mocked masks and implied following preventive measures was "paranoia," declared the pandemic to be "over" during a wave of disease, and mocked young people who were worried about catching COVID:

Bill Maher Uses ‘Masked Paranoid World’ To Describe Covid-19 Situation, Here’s What He’s Got Wrong Again

Bill Maher Says Pandemic is Over, 'You Shouldn't Have to Wear Masks'

(Warning per Rule 5: language in the article) Bill Maher Mocks Young People Worried About Getting Covid

But he was vaccinated and didn't outright deny the benefit of vaccines, at least. His take on the situation was pretty poor but not the worst out there.

 

[Soandso]

On the other hand, a political comedian makes his living by pointing out the obvious, and in order for something to be obvious it has to be grounded in truth.

I'm going to have to disagree with you, there. It has to be grounded in popular opinion. Moreover, that opinion can be distilled down to the popular opinion of a smaller, more focused group of people

Also, most political jokes I see aren't designed to make anyone think. They are more often then not designed to tear down their percieved political opposition. That's nothing new, but it certainly seems to stink like propoganda more than it has in the past, IMO

 

[Brickjectivity]

Yep, I'd take that bet for as much as you like.

Thanks for betting on my good health!

 

[Quagmire]

That's a good distinction, and I do agree that celebrities tend to have a wider reach.

I have found Maher not to be very effective in recent years,

Be that as it may, I think it's a mistake to judge the message by the messenger.

I don't agree with everything Bill Mayer says (I disliked Religulous) but he hits the mark often enough for me to at least want to hear what he has to say.

In this case, I only watched the first 5 minutes of the video, but if I got the gist right he's once again, calling us out our hypocrisy as a society, which is something he does well in my opinion. He seems to have made it his niche.

personally, and I think in this day and age, a political commentator, whether a comedian or not, may be able to gain traction just by appealing to people's prejudices without necessarily being consistent or accurate.

Tucker Carlson seems to me a perfect example of this.

Tucker Carlson isnt a comedian. Can you think of a comedian who actually does this?

I make a distinction between a political commentator and a political comedian.

You can make people listen to you by appealing to their biases and prejudices, but it's a lot harder to make them laugh by doing so (except maybe sardonically).

"It's funny because it's true".

I don't know if I've ever heard any funny propaganda.

I liked Jon Stewart the most when it came to pointing out absurdities and making people think through his usage of satire.

I liked him too.

 

[Quagmire]

I'm going to have to disagree with you, there. It has to be grounded in popular opinion. Moreover, that opinion can be distilled down to the popular opinion of a smaller, more focused group of people

Can you give me an example?

And just to be clear, I was saying that in order for something to be obvious it has to be grounded in truth, not in order for something to be funny it has to be grounded in truth.

Also, most political jokes I see aren't designed to make anyone think. They are more often then not designed to tear down their percieved political opposition. That's nothing new, but it certainly seems to stink like propoganda more than it has in the past, IMO

I think this may sometimes be true of political cartoons, after all it's a lot easier to get away with something like that using something that's the visual equivalent of a sound byte, but I think it would be pretty hard for someone to put together an entire routine based on propaganda and be consistently funny except, as I mentioned, in the most sardonic of ways.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Be that as it may, I think it's a mistake to judge the message by the messenger.

I don't agree with everything Bill Mayer says (I disliked Religulous) but he hits the mark often enough for me to at least want to hear what he has to say.

In this case, I only watched the first 5 minutes of the video, but if I got the gist right he's once again, calling us out our hypocrisy as a society, which is something he does well in my opinion. He seems to have made it his niche.

Yeah, Maher sometimes makes good points, which I grant even though I dislike his content in general.

Tucker Carlson isnt a comedian. Can you think of a comedian who actually does this?

I make a distinction between a political commentator and a political comedian.

You can make people listen to you by appealing to their biases and prejudices, but it's a lot harder to make them laugh by doing so (except maybe sardonically).

"It's funny because it's true".

I don't know if I've ever heard any funny propaganda.

JP Sears is a good example:

JP Sears - Wikipedia

He's not nearly as popular as Bill Maher, and his presence is confined to social media, but he also has significantly more fans than a lot of other political comedians.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah, Maher sometimes makes good points, which I grant even though I dislike his content in general.



JP Sears is a good example:

JP Sears - Wikipedia

He's not nearly as popular as Bill Maher, and his presence is confined to social media, but he also has significantly more fans than a lot of other political comedians.

I used to like JP Sears. But unfortunately he got the anti-reality bug that so many caught from Covid. Whenever someone says "Wearing a mask won't protect you" they demonstrate that they do not know what masks are for. Or who they protect. There is some protection for mask wearers. But not that much. When I got Covid I was wearing a mask. The two people that I was working on and probably gave it to me, were not wearing masks. I got mine from a nursing hone that was Covid positive. The workers all had to wear masks of course. The residents did not. And the residents that I were working on were in the dementia unit and probably would not have worn one if told to. At least not for long. They came down with it at one point and a few days later, so did I. The timing was right anyway. At least they got it before I did. I would hate to know that I gave it to someone myself.

 

[Quagmire]

Yeah, Maher sometimes makes good points, which I grant even though I dislike his content in general.



JP Sears is a good example:

JP Sears - Wikipedia

He's not nearly as popular as Bill Maher, and his presence is confined to social media, but he also has significantly more fans than a lot of other political comedians.

I just watched the first couple of minutes of four of his videos and in my opinion this guy is awful.

Didn't laugh once.

Apparently a lot of people disagree with me though since he has 2.75 million subscribers.

Still, I didn't see any apparent propaganda. I did see him spoofing some of the covid related restrictions, but not in a way that suggested that he disagreed with them.

 

[Heyo]

"The verdict is in: humans are not good people".

Love it.

I like it also but I disagree. Most humans are good people, most of the time. But they are also lazy, dumb and coward.
That's why we need less lazy, dumb and coward people to force us to do what's good for us. I hate that but it seems the only way in an emergency. As Maher says, appealing to people doesn't seem to work and even if we individually do care, we don't make much of a change.
We need to make a collective decision and we need to enforce it against our own laziness. I.e. we need a bold government. That's why it's OK to fly to climate conference. The impact that can have will offset the CO2 a hundred times.

 

[Estro Felino]

I like it also but I disagree. Most humans are good people, most of the time. But they are also lazy, dumb and coward.
That's why we need less lazy, dumb and coward people to force us to do what's good for us. I hate that but it seems the only way in an emergency. As Maher says, appealing to people doesn't seem to work and even if we individually do care, we don't make much of a change.
We need to make a collective decision and we need to enforce it against our own laziness. I.e. we need a bold government. That's why it's OK to fly to climate conference. The impact that can have will offset the CO2 a hundred times.

Yes. For example you could come to Rome and convince Romans to use the bicycle instead of the car.
Let them choose: bicycle or metro.

 

[Heyo]

Yes. For example you could come to Rome and convince Romans to use the bicycle instead of the car.
Let them choose: bicycle or metro.

You didn't understand. Trying to convince the Romans is a futile endeavour. Convincing the mayor to ban all cars from the city is the way to go.

 

[Estro Felino]

You didn't understand. Trying to convince the Romans is a futile endeavour. Convincing the mayor to ban all cars from the city is the way to go.

I have seen perfectly clean villages in Sicily where people were so diligent in recycling.
Romans won't recycle.
Romans' indolence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have seen perfectly clean villages in Sicily where people were so diligent in recycling.
Romans won't recycle.
Romans' indolence.

That can happen in big cities. It is not really "indolence". In a small town if a person makes a mess there is a very good chance that someone he knows will see him do it and act upon it. People do not like to be publicly shamed. In a large city when it comes to small wrongs such as littering there are far too many people that do not know you. The odds are that you can do it and not get caught. Worse yet they see other people do it and not get caught. So it spreads. It is basic human psychology.

 

[Estro Felino]

That can happen in big cities. It is not really "indolence". In a small town if a person makes a mess there is a very good chance that someone he knows will see him do it and act upon it. People do not like to be publicly shamed. In a large city when it comes to small wrongs such as littering there are far too many people that do not know you. The odds are that you can do it and not get caught. Worse yet they see other people do it and not get caught. So it spreads. It is basic human psychology.

I had never thought about it. I think that's exactly the reason.