Biden met with historians

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you think democracy is really under threat

Yes.

and if so by whom?

Republicans.

 

[F1fan]

The threat is coming from within. Not from other nations. The US population has always had a significant leaning toward fascism, and it has reared it's head often over the years. There's no excuse for Biden not knowing this.

Um, the story is about him actually being informed. Biden is a politician not a historian, and it is a good sign that Biden is actually listening to what historians know, unlike the previous guy.

How could Biden not know what we citizens can see happening? We all know what the republicans are up to. It's just that the right doesn't care about the fraud and ethics of their movement.

And no excuse for his ignoring it his entire political career. He took the bribe money and told the lies just like the rest of them. And now, suddenly, he's surprised to see that the government he's been a part of for 50 years is so corrupt and incompetitant that it's about to be overthrown by the fascist cohorts sitting right next to him?

I have no clue what you are referring to here. Bribe money? What is happening now with the republicans is a fairly new thing, the complete collapse of ethics. It's been occurring in stages, from Gingrich not cooperating with Democrats in the 90's, to the legal nonsense in Florida resolving the 2000 election, to the extreme idealism of the Tea party during the Obama years, to the rise of right wing disinformation networks, to Trumpism, and now to a complete collapse of ethics among republicans.

 

[F1fan]

This administration is the threat to democracy.

Once again you are 100% in error.

Your claim here is not only wrong, but you don't even bother to attempt to provide any argument. You have no facts, so you were right to not even try.

 

[paradox]

Historically, America has endured crooked politicians, and even entire factions - and democracy has suffered. One might question whether America was ever really much of a democracy to begin with, going back to the beginning when the only people who could vote were property-owning white males. Thanks to Andrew Jackson, that right was extended to all white males, no matter if they owned property or not. But anyone who wasn't white or male - they didn't get to vote. But they still considered it "democratic," at least within their narrow definition of the word.

The Civil War was a watershed event in American history - and democracy was certainly under threat back then, in more ways than one. Some people in some states were upset about the results of the election of 1860, and it quickly escalated from there. However in the aftermath, the 15th Amendment was passed which guaranteed that all males over 21 had the right to vote, regardless of race, although women were still excluded. Still, it appeared to be some progress, yet the way it was practiced was somewhat dishonestly, since there was still widespread denial of the right to vote, such as grandfather clauses and literacy tests which were used to deny blacks the right to vote. That problem was never really dealt with in earnest until the 1950s and 60s. But as far as the view of "democracy" as being a system of universal suffrage where all human adult citizens have the right to vote being faithfully implemented throughout the country - we haven't really had that for very long, relatively speaking.

Still, despite the upheavals, atrocious inequities, and other problems, there have also been long periods of political stability and relative prosperity, where the democratic process continues and most transfers of power go smoothly and peacefully. A few times, they don't, and this last time was quite the fiasco. Whether we can move past this is another matter.

One thing that should be mentioned is that political harmony can be best maintained when more people have a genuine stake in the survival of the system. When a large enough portion of the population is left out in the cold, then they'll care more about basic necessities than any abstract philosophies or political principles. That's always been the biggest threat to democracy and political stability.

Another complication also has to do with the culture of politics in general, as well as perceptions of government and the world which were formed during the Cold War era.

Thank you, this was very informative!
Historical contexts can be really refreshing to see where is democracy supposed to go in the future.
You made me rethink my view on democracy.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Once again you are 100% in error.

Your claim here is not only wrong, but you don't even bother to attempt to provide any argument. You have no facts, so you were right to not even try.

The irony of this administration creating the Disinformation Governance Board is overwhelming.
The masters of handing us disinformation about what they really do are going to inform us on what disinformation is.
It's right out of "1984"
Jankowicz’s idea of standing up for the First Amendment included letting “verified” Twitter users “edit” other users’ tweets if the blue-checked chosen think they’re misleading.
Fortunately it didn't go over too well.

 

[Polymath257]

The irony of this administration creating the Disinformation Governance Board is overwhelming.
The masters of handing us disinformation about what they really do are going to inform us on what disinformation is.
It's right out of "1984"
Jankowicz’s idea of standing up for the First Amendment included letting “verified” Twitter users “edit” other users’ tweets if the blue-checked chosen think they’re misleading.
Fortunately it didn't go over too well.

Don't forget the Trump team with their 'alternative facts' and persistent lies and smear campaigns. Or Trump's crazy ideas about Obama's birth certificate. Or his claims that he could shoot someone in public and get away with it. Or his use of nepotism while in the White House. Or his refusal to allow Congressional oversight. Or his politicization of the Justice Department. Or his support of white nationalists. Or his lies about and refusal to deal with Covid. Or his refusal to release money to Ukraine that was authorized because he wanted political retribution.

And this isn't even close to all the corruption and lies he perpetrated *in the open* over the years.

 

[tytlyf]

The irony of this administration creating the Disinformation Governance Board is overwhelming.
The masters of handing us disinformation about what they really do are going to inform us on what disinformation is.
It's right out of "1984"
Jankowicz’s idea of standing up for the First Amendment included letting “verified” Twitter users “edit” other users’ tweets if the blue-checked chosen think they’re misleading.
Fortunately it didn't go over too well.

You should stop relying on your bizarre information sources. Come on...man.
Why are conservatives always so angry, fearful and paranoid? It's your media man. It's intentional

 

[paradox]

Why are conservatives always so angry, fearful and paranoid?

It's not so much about conservatives but rather it's populism.
What Trump was doing is pure populism and he's not the only one, populist narrative gained attraction in several countries already.

Populism - Wikipedia
How Donald Trump's populist narrative led directly to the assault on the US Capitol (theconversation.com)

I believe populism has not yet reached its peek globally but it's on the rise.
Conservative ideas are fine and not a problem, but populism is nothing but old socialist-style propaganda refined for todays times.

 

[PureX]

How could Biden not know what we citizens can see happening? We all know what the republicans are up to. It's just that the right doesn't care about the fraud and ethics of their movement.

Neither did Biden for most of his political career. He voted with republicans most of the time: against raising minimum wage (many times), against universal health care, for the big pharma monopoly, for NAFTA, for every military action ever proposed, against student loan reforms, and on and on. Seems he was pretty OK with the republican agenda most of his life. Especially when the corporate lobbyists came around with their big dollar "donations" and their all expense paid trips to fancy resorts for "meetings", and their cushy high-paying jobs for unscrupulous family members. Biden has been riding the corruption gravy train his whole adult life, right along with his republican cohorts. Yet somehow it's only now that he's realizing their agenda was not exactly democratic?

I have no clue what you are referring to here. Bribe money? What is happening now with the republicans is a fairly new thing, the complete collapse of ethics.

There's nothing new about it. Every congressman and senator on both sides of the isle has been taking legalized bribe money for decades in exchange for passing legislation favorable to the corporations and business conglomerates paying the bribes. They even meet regularly in "secret" to clarify what legislation the "lobbyists" want next, and who's getting how much in exchange for it. These days the lobbyists even write the legislation, themselves, and just hand it to the legislators to get it passed. In many instances the legislators don't even bother to read it.

This has been going on for many decades. It's been reported on many times over the years but no one seems to care enough to vote them out of office. So it just keeps going on and getting worse.

It's been occurring in stages, from Gingrich not cooperating with Democrats in the 90's, to the legal nonsense in Florida resolving the 2000 election, to the extreme idealism of the Tea party during the Obama years, to the rise of right wing disinformation networks, to Trumpism, and now to a complete collapse of ethics among republicans.

Yes, that faction of the American people that have always been keen on fascism is always there, and always supporting our descent into chaos. They're imagining a new America arising where they get to rule over everyone else and do whatever they please. They've never wanted equal justice or equal opportunity for all. And they've fought against it all along.

I guess Biden was too busy doing what the lobbyists told him to see any of this, though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What I'm certain is that nations which are not part of NATO actively seek weakened US,

How? When so many of them depend on America for one thing or another, how?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Don't forget the Trump team with their 'alternative facts' and persistent lies and smear campaigns. Or Trump's crazy ideas about Obama's birth certificate. Or his claims that he could shoot someone in public and get away with it. Or his use of nepotism while in the White House. Or his refusal to allow Congressional oversight. Or his politicization of the Justice Department. Or his support of white nationalists. Or his lies about and refusal to deal with Covid. Or his refusal to release money to Ukraine that was authorized because he wanted political retribution.

And this isn't even close to all the corruption and lies he perpetrated *in the open* over the years.

My bad. I thought we were discussing the current administration.
What another administration did has what exactly to do with this discussion?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You should stop relying on your bizarre information sources. Come on...man.
Why are conservatives always so angry, fearful and paranoid? It's your media man. It's intentional

I don't see where being realistic about the government is paranoid or angry.

 

[paradox]

How? When so many of them depend on America for one thing or another, how?

There is the so called "business as usual", which means that economy is given higher priority over non economic things.

Examples such as:
US-China tensions over Taiwan but the US trading with China just fine.
Tukey shot down Russian plane but few days later Putin strikes a major gas deal with Erdogan.

In very rare occasions is economy disrupted.
But there may be exceptions to what I said about non NATO countries, some seek active membership and do not see the US hostile.

Edit:
Business as usual (policy) - Wikipedia

 

[PureX]

It's not so much about conservatives but rather it's populism.
What Trump was doing is pure populism and he's not the only one, populist narrative gained attraction in several countries already.

Populism - Wikipedia
How Donald Trump's populist narrative led directly to the assault on the US Capitol (theconversation.com)

I believe populism has not yet reached its peek globally but it's on the rise.
Conservative ideas are fine and not a problem, but populism is nothing but old socialist-style propaganda refined for todays times.

That's a very good article. I wish the phenomena had a better label, though. Something more like "ego-mongering" rather than "populism".

 

[Daemon Sophic]

It's not
yet reached its peek globally but it's on the rise……

Conservative ideas are fine and not a problem, but populism is nothing but old socialist-style propaganda refined for todays times.

Could you please provide some examples of conservative ideas that are not bad for the US, for democracy (even a republic), or humanity, or the biosphere of this planet?
?Slavery?
?Racism?
?Hatred of science?
?Male dominance over and control of women?
?Maintenance of gerrymandering?
?Vote suppression?
?Money equaling free speech?
?Pro-pollution deregulation of industries?
?Corporations equaling people?
?Divisiveness?
?Fear mongering?
Etc…etc….etc….
?How about theocracy, or cult leadership and autocracy?

Which of the above conservative ideas is fine and non-problematical? Go ahead; take your time. We’ll wait.

 

[paradox]

?Slavery?
?Racism?
?Male dominance over and control of women?

Are thing of the past obviously and not a tradition.

?Maintenance of gerrymandering?

Sorry I don't know what that is.

?Money equaling free speech?
?Pro-pollution deregulation of industries?
?Divisiveness?

Subjective.

?Fear mongering?
?Hatred of science?

False.

?Vote suppression?

Has nothing to do with conservatism.

?How about theocracy, or cult leadership and autocracy?

Also a thing of the past, no country today is led by priests or pope or a great leader, excluding N. Korea and similar extremes.

Could you please provide some examples of conservative ideas that are not bad for the US, for democracy (even a republic), or humanity, or the biosphere of this planet?

You are exaggerating, can you provide an example of conservative idea that would harm biosphere?
I see no dangers in conservatism.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Could you please provide some examples of conservative ideas that are not bad for the US, for democracy (even a republic), or humanity, or the biosphere of this planet?
?Slavery?
?Racism?
?Hatred of science?
?Male dominance over and control of women?
?Maintenance of gerrymandering?
?Vote suppression?
?Money equaling free speech?
?Pro-pollution deregulation of industries?
?Corporations equaling people?
?Divisiveness?
?Fear mongering?
Etc…etc….etc….
?How about theocracy, or cult leadership and autocracy?

Which of the above conservative ideas is fine and non-problematical? Go ahead; take your time. We’ll wait.

Those are not necessarily conservative ideas.
conservative
kən-sûr′və-tĭv
adjective

1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2. Traditional or restrained in style.
3. Moderate; cautious.

So what is a conservative?

First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order. That order is made for man, and man is made for it: human nature is a constant, and moral truths are permanent.
Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity.
Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription. Conservatives sense that modern people are dwarfs on the shoulders of giants, able to see farther than their ancestors only because of the great stature of those who have preceded us in time.
Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence... they don't rush into untried ideas blindly.
Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety. For the preservation of a healthy diversity in any civilization, there must survive orders and classes, differences in material condition, and many sorts of inequality. Leveling the playing field artificially never works.

Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectibility. Human nature suffers irremediably from certain grave faults, the conservatives know. Man being imperfect, no perfect social order ever can be created.

Seventh, conservatives are persuaded.that freedom and property are closely linked. Upon the foundation of private property, great civilizations are built.

Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary commuity, as they oppose involuntary collectivism. Although Americans have been attached strongly to privacy and private rights, they also have been a people conspicuous for a successful l spirit of community. In a genuine community, the decisions most directly affecting the lives of citizens are made locally and voluntarily.

Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human Passions.
When every person claims to be a power unto himself, then society falls into anarchy. Anarchy never lasts long.

Tenth, the thinking conservative understands-that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society.
When a society is progressing in some respects, usually it is declining in other respects.

 

[Orbit]

This administration is the threat to democracy.

I think you're confused. The last administration is the problem, with their refusal to accept the outcome of a democratic election.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is the so called "business as usual", which means that economy is given higher priority over non economic things.

Examples such as:
US-China tensions over Taiwan but the US trading with China just fine.
Tukey shot down Russian plane but few days later Putin strikes a major gas deal with Erdogan.

In very rare occasions is economy disrupted.
But there may be exceptions to what I said about non NATO countries, some seek active membership and do not see the US hostile.

Edit:
Business as usual (policy) - Wikipedia

Do you even know what NATO is and who is a member of it?

 

[paradox]

Do you even know what NATO is and who is a member of it?

Yes I do, why?