Biblical Slavery - How Could A Loving God Condone It?

[sooda]

Dutch Africaners were on the liberal side
English were Catholic by leadership at times in their history

Not after Henry the 8th.

My Ancestors were Dutch Reformed Church and they worked for the Dutch West Indies company circa 1600.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus said some laws were given 'out of the hardness of your hearts' as restraints (like that of laws concerning handling divorces)

Excuses excuses.

 

[Stanyon]

And Dawoodi Bohra, ISIS, Al-Qaida, Abu Sayyaf, the Ayatollah, Wahhabis, Tehreek-e-Labbaik, Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLF, Boko Haram, ISIL along with their hundreds of millions of sympathizers would not exist were it not for Islam.

Islam is evil.


Islam has to die.

I wouldn't paint it with such a large brush but there are countries where some things are still legal and accepted that was done away with hundreds of years ago in other countries.

 

[sooda]

Now you're just being mendacious. Carrying away any individual against their will was kidnapping which was strictly proscribed in ancient Israel under pain of death and slave trading is proscribed at 1 Timothy 1:8-10. (cf. Exodus 21:7; Leviticus 25; 2 Kings 4:1-7)

The Hebrews didn't consider Gentiles to be their neighbors. You could kidnap and enslave them.. Look at the Vikings and the Khazars, both were big time slavers.

 

[whirlingmerc]

The Hebrews didn't consider Gentiles to be their neighbors. You could kidnap and enslave them.. Look at the Vikings and the Khazars, both were big time slavers.

Ruth and Rahab were part of other groups but became part of Israel and even had King David and Jesus as descendants

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ruth and Rahab were part of other groups but became part of Israel and even had King David and Jesus as descendants

Yes, the Hebrews did not automatically enslave everyone. Did you have a point here?

Of course that is probably one of the fictional tales of the Bible. But still, yes the Hebrews would not have enslaved everyone. That does not mean that they did not enslave some people.

 

[1213]

Kidnapping anyone and then selling them was punishable by death in ancient Israel-
...

It is interesting that selling was forbidden, but buying was not. And I think the reason could be that those who would be bought, would have better life that way.

 

[Maximilian]

And yet the Bible had no problem with people being enslaved. When the Bible contradicts itself, which it does time and time again, people tend to follow the parts that they want to believe. Your assumption of poverty is illogical. Nor does it excuse that those slaves became properly. They were slaves for life to be passed on as possessions and the children of slaves were slaves as well if you read the Bible. How do you excuse that? Verses will be provided if you are unaware of this.

Those who voluntarily offered to be an ancient Israelite's factotum to cure a debt or to stave off the impacts of intense poverty were slaves? Really? (cf. Exodus 21:7; Leviticus 25; 2 Kings 4:1-7)

Are employees slaves too?

 

[Maximilian]

Do you know ANY Muslims? They tend to be conservative, family orientd and hospitable.

Islam is ISIS.


ISIS is Islam.

 

[Maximilian]

Actually, the law of Moses has many remarkable legal protections for slaves, making it markedly different than the human trafficking seen in the world

And it was a completely voluntary system. No one could be kidnapped and forced to labor for another.

 

[Maximilian]

The slave trade was largely ended by groups of mostly evangelical religious people, such as Wilberforce. Religious folk tended to elevate people made in the image of God and were motivated to help them.

( I have some problems with Finney's theology, as he is the most strongly palagian American Evangelist but that's another subject )

Atheists certainly weren't the ones championing the cause of American slaves, that's for sure.

 

[Maximilian]

You'd think he would have read Leviticus.

In the broader view the Hebrews were not friendly with Gentiles and considered them inferior. Jesus had very little to do with Gentiles.

Incorrect.

"For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty, and awe-inspiring, who treats none with partiality and does not accept a bribe. He executes justice for the fatherless child and the widow and loves the foreign resident, giving him food and clothing. You too must love the foreign resident, for you became foreign residents in the land of Egypt." -Deuteronomy 10:17-19 (Emphasis mine.)

"The foreigner who resides with you should become to you like a native among you; and you must love him as yourself, for you were foreign residents in the land of Egypt. I am Jehovah your God." -Leviticus 19:34 (Emphasis mine.)​

 

[Subduction Zone]

Those who voluntarily offered to be an ancient Israelite's factotum to cure a debt or to stave off the impacts of intense poverty were slaves? Really? (cf. Exodus 21:7; Leviticus 25; 2 Kings 4:1-7)

Are employees slaves too?

You appear to be conflating the indentured servants with slaves. Hebrews were often indentured servants, that is not the same as slavery, but it is interesting that you did cite the verse that indentured servitude does not apply to women. One sold them into a lifetime of slavery as well.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And it was a completely voluntary system. No one could be kidnapped and forced to labor for another.

Cherry picking again.

 

[Maximilian]

A common problem with religious beliefs is one of cognitive dissonance, and this does not apply only to religion. When a belief is shown to be not supported the brain goes through all sorts of contortions to defend those beliefs.

Actually, contemporary research shows that individuals with ASD have cognitive processing styles which hamper human spirituality while the Neurotypical have all inherited a variety of biological predispositions for spirituality. Disqus - Square Pegs, Round Holes


Have you ever been assessed for ASD? ([Self-Test] Autism Spectrum Disorder Symptoms in Adults)

 

[Maximilian]

You appear to be conflating the indentured servants with slaves. Hebrews were often indentured servants, that is not the same as slavery, but it is interesting that you did cite the verse that indentured servitude does not apply to women. One sold them into a lifetime of slavery as well.

Which means perforce that the Israelites had a voluntary work force. Especially since carrying away any individual against their will was kidnapping which was strictly proscribed in ancient Israel under pain of death.

 

[sooda]

Ruth and Rahab were part of other groups but became part of Israel and even had King David and Jesus as descendants

The contradiction is startling..

Deuteronomy 23:3

An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: And Ruth was a Moabitess.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Islam is ISIS.


ISIS is Islam.

No, that is like saying Christianity is the Westboro Baptist Church. Or Christianity is the Jehovah's Witnesses, or the Mormons. Or even the same as calling all apes human. It is an error in categorization.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Which means perforce that the Israelites had a voluntary work force. Especially since carrying away any individual against their will was kidnapping which was strictly proscribed in ancient Israel under pain of death.

No, one could buy slaves from foreign dealers. There was no knowing where those slaves came from. At best you can only say that Hebrews were not allowed to enslave people, but there are even clear contradictions to that.

 

[sooda]

Which means perforce that the Israelites had a voluntary work force. Especially since carrying away any individual against their will was kidnapping which was strictly proscribed in ancient Israel under pain of death.

Jews still owned Jewish slaves in the Talmudic era because Talmudic authorities tried to denounce the practice that Jews could sell themselves into slavery if they were poverty-stricken. In particular, the Talmud said that Jews should not sell themselves to non-Jews.

The Israelites and Jews had slaves throughout the biblical period, as various passages of the Bible attest. Exodus 12:44 talks of the purchase of slaves and the need for them to be circumcised, which implies that these were non-Hebrew slaves.

As the question implies, it seems anachronistic that the fleeing slaves would have had slaves at the start of the Exodus or even at any time during the forty years of wandering, but Exodus 12:44-45 does not necessarily mean that the fleeing Israelites actually had slaves at this stage -- it can be read as a teaching or instruction for when the Israelites would soon have slaves.