Better than Jesus

[kerravon]

We are all accountable to God for our own actions... Jesus never enslaved anyone so he will not be held accountable to God for the fact that other people choose to do such things.

Other people choose to do such things because they don't know that there is anything wrong with that. Why wasn't there an 11th commandment saying "do not enslave"? Why didn't Jesus say "forget the 10 commandments, they are inadequate - we should be abolishing slavery too"? I expect this basic decency from anyone claiming to be the son of God. I don't understand why you not only give Jesus a free pass for that obscenity, but consider it to be PERFECT action. ie perfect action is to endorse slavery.

 

[Thana]

And I would expect the son of God to put himself ahead of the culture he was born in. He could have also mentioned that the earth went around the sun, not the other way around, and spare Galileo's future suffering.

Why would He do that?
I mean, If he actively interfered like that, He may as well not have even bothered to create us, If He was going to fix all our problems anyway.

It's not socially acceptable no thanks to the bible. The bible needed to be defeated by secular thought so that slavery could be abolished.

Endorsing slavery is not something that I would expect to see coming from the mouth of a perfect person or written in a perfect book.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

I wouldn't say the bible is perfect, I'd say it's exactly how it is meant to be.

The bible was not holding back people from abolishing slavery,
Where did you even get that idea from?

 

[BSM1]

How about "protection of other people's human rights" because he has loving and kindness and is enlightened and can walk on water?

[/QUOTE]

You are aware of what happened to the "human rights" of those who followed Christianity in the early years of the religion?

 

[nazz]

Endorsing slavery is not something that I would expect to see coming from the mouth of a perfect person or written in a perfect book.

Jesus did not endorse or condone slavery. He came to set the captives free. If you understood real freedom you would not be asking this question. No one who truly follows the way of Jesus could possibly enslave another human being.

 

[idav]

Would you expect a perfect person to know that slavery was wrong, and to speak out against it and attempt to abolish it? Instead of condoning slavery, like Jesus/bible does, which led to CENTURIES of horrific slavery by Christians?

He did at least speak out against the dehumanization of slaves, which essentially would make a slave more like someone your employing or even someone that's part of the family. That is more than I'd expect from someone 2000 years ago. When the US was practicing slavery it also involved dehumanization which goes against scripture.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

1. Do you think it is possible for a person today to be better than Jesus?

Sure. I've known a number of people who are better than Jesus in a whole host of ways.

2. What would a person who is better than Jesus say or do that Jesus failed to say or do?

Narrowing the scope to "somebody being better than Jesus based on the popular perception of what made Jesus good," I'd say that somebody who was Jesus 2.0 could vastly improve upon what Jesus was purported to have set out to do. Such a person could be more clear, more straightforward, more widely seen and heard, and would understand claiming to die so everyone else can be "forgiven," is not only non-sensical, but also arrogant, and somewhat psychotic.

3. What is the ultimate that a person can do if we compare all the people who are objectively better than Jesus (if any)?

Be responsible for spreading joy and happiness and/or reducing suffering and pain. I'm sure many people have surpassed Jesus on both these counts.

 

[Sunstone]

I've known many people I've considered better than Jesus, but no one who has his reputation for goodness.

 

[nazz]

I've known many people I've considered better than Jesus, but no one who has his reputation for goodness.

You must know some awesome people. I've never met anyone that even came close to being as good as Jesus.

 

[Sunstone]

You must know some awesome people. I've never met anyone that even came close to being as good as Jesus.

I think for many of us, Jesus stands for a sort of unattainable ideal. That is, by definition, he cannot be equaled, much less surpassed.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think for many of us, Jesus stands for a sort of unattainable ideal. That is, by definition, he cannot be equaled, much less surpassed.

I always knew I had something in common with Jesus. I just didn't know what it was until today.

 

[Knight of Albion]

Jesus did not endorse or condone slavery. He came to set the captives free. If you understood real freedom you would not be asking this question. No one who truly follows the way of Jesus could possibly enslave another human being.

Excellent and well said.

It was Paul who condoned slavery. Wheter he personally condoned it or, in a classic case of the biter being bit, his teachings were corrupted in order to condone it is unclear.
Roman Catholicism was a state sponsored religion. The Roman Empire ran on slavery and they wanted and needed it to continue, hence the interpolation.

Jesus taught and advocated Christ Consciousness, which is Love Consciousness. His whole message was one of liberation - spiritual liberation, from the bondage of the lower self.

 

[psychoslice]

I would not want to be like Jesus, I want to be me, the problem is many put Jesus on a pedestal that they believe no one can ever get to. We need to be the best we ourselves can be, not trying to be anyone else, that would be a wast of life to live like another.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Other people choose to do such things because they don't know that there is anything wrong with that. Why wasn't there an 11th commandment saying "do not enslave"? Why didn't Jesus say "forget the 10 commandments, they are inadequate - we should be abolishing slavery too"? I expect this basic decency from anyone claiming to be the son of God. I don't understand why you not only give Jesus a free pass for that obscenity, but consider it to be PERFECT action. ie perfect action is to endorse slavery.

The Revelations of God are progressive. It is not possible to make the whole humanity perfect with only one revelation, but in each Age, God makes an improvement in human civilization by teaching more and more 'according to capacity of humanity' to accept and understand. So, although Jesus did not explicitly say, slavery is wrong, but Baha'u'llah revealed:

"It is forbidden you to trade in slaves, be they men or women. It is not for him who is himself a servant to buy another of God’s servants, and this hath been prohibited in His Holy Tablet. Thus, by His mercy, hath the commandment been recorded by the Pen of justice. Let no man exalt himself above another; all are but bondslaves before the Lord, and all exemplify the truth that there is none other God but Him. He, verily, is the All-Wise, Whose wisdom encompasseth all things."

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 34-49

But even though, Baha'is believe Revelation of Baha'u'llah is more advanced in comparison with previous revelations such as Islam and Christianity, yet, there is no difference between Baha'u'llah, Jesus or Muhammad.

 

[Contemplative Cat]

1. Do you think it is possible for a person today to be better than Jesus?

2. What would a person who is better than Jesus say or do that Jesus failed to say or do?

3. What is the ultimate that a person can do if we compare all the people who are objectively better than Jesus (if any)?

There are other teachers who have become as Jesus, a Christ.
I think todays Christs will reinterpret religion so as to clear up misunderstandings.
There are no people better than jesus, but many like him. Amma ma, is a female Christ. She feeds and houses thousands. She gives her blessing by hugging you. She is but one example, she makes people cry with relief as if she forgives you for eerything.

 

[Penumbra]

1. Do you think it is possible for a person today to be better than Jesus?

2. What would a person who is better than Jesus say or do that Jesus failed to say or do?

3. What is the ultimate that a person can do if we compare all the people who are objectively better than Jesus (if any)?

Well, I don't view the character of Jesus as presented in the New Testament canon as being a very good role model. So I'm going to say yeah.

The whole anti-establishment peace 'n love thing was pretty cool, but not so much the rest, imo.

His main argument for being good is about reward and punishment from his dad, he magically withered a fig tree out of angst because it wasn't bearing fruit (I'm an environmentalist, that's not cool Jesus), and in general he walked around telling people that they should sell everything and follow him, and that they must love him more than their own family or else they aren't worth of him, and that the world was going to end within their generation, and then it didn't.

 

[nazz]

Well, I don't view the character of Jesus as presented in the New Testament canon as being a very good role model. So I'm going to say yeah.

The whole anti-establishment peace 'n love thing was pretty cool, but not so much the rest, imo.

His main argument for being good is about reward and punishment from his dad, he magically withered a fig tree out of angst because it wasn't bearing fruit (I'm an environmentalist, that's not cool Jesus), and in general he walked around telling people that they should sell everything and follow him, and that they must love him more than their own family or else they aren't worth of him, and that the world was going to end within their generation, and then it didn't.

Hmm, that's not exactly the message I walk away with.

 

[Zelophehad]

1. Do you think it is possible for a person today to be better than Jesus?

2. What would a person who is better than Jesus say or do that Jesus failed to say or do?

3. What is the ultimate that a person can do if we compare all the people who are objectively better than Jesus (if any)?

Jesus enabled and empowered YHWH and Moses. Jesus is responsible for spreading the influences of terrorism, slavery, witch hunts...among other things. Jesus puts the huge weight of the Bible on everybody's shoulders and doesn't lift a finger against the doctrine of terrorism, that had him and many other innocent people condemned to death. Buddha is WAAYYY more wiser than Jesus, or anyone else in the Bible. Buddha teaches to question doctrines. Jesus was an ignorant fool for performing miracles on YHWH's and Moses's behalf, when he SHOULD have been standing against them for all the open, unrepentant evil they both commit. You don't need Jesus to deliver YHWH's eternal compassion. Any prostitute can deliver love and compassion. Jesus was not about honor. He was not about integrity. Jesus was not about morality. For all the "good" he seems to do and teach, and all the miracles he performed, it was all done on YHWH's and Moses's behalf. Like I said, any prostitute can shower you with love. Buddha> Jesus.

 

[Sunstone]

I would not want to be like Jesus, I want to be me, the problem is many put Jesus on a pedestal that they believe no one can ever get to. We need to be the best we ourselves can be, not trying to be anyone else, that would be a wast of life to live like another.

Spot on! That's exactly the point that needs to be made here.

 

[kerravon]

You must know some awesome people. I've never met anyone that even came close to being as good as Jesus.

I consider that the massive number of people today who claim that slavery is wrong, to be better than Jesus.

I expect a Messiah, on being born into a particular world, to see human rights abuses and then reacting PERFECTLY to that stimuli.

A perfect reaction would be to come up with a set of rules similar to the rules that the Australian (etc) government have today - laws that outlaw slavery, rape, etc etc. I consider Australian law to be head and shoulders above the bible, which condones slavery (Leviticus 25:44, Ephesians 6:5, Colossians 3:22).

And then go ABOVE Australian law and free people from state-slavery as well (ie people suffering under dictatorships).

And also address what was causing individuals (not governments) from doing evil, even while claiming to be Christians and believing in God.

So fix the problems with both governments and individuals.

Jesus woefully failed to do any of this, and it is so easy to be better than Jesus simply by saying "slavery is wrong, unlike what the bible said".

 

[psychoslice]

Just as the teachings of Jesus made better the old way that is within the old testament, we also must make a better way than the teachings of the new testament, after all its been over two thousand years, we must of learnt something to change that old way of thinking.