Bernie wants murderers, rapists, and thieves to vote for him. Among others.....

[Shadow Wolf]

Possibly?

I don't see that as a very realistic or even probable possibility. Of course it's not 100% impossible, but not very likely.

 

[Jumi]

That would apply specifically to murderers. And they didn't use a vote to take a life (though that I suppose would apply to those who vote for a candidate who wants needless war).

Murderers and rapists "chose" to ruin the lives of others, not respecting their "vote"... having them lose the right to vote should be the least in our concerns. For a lot of them, I consider them outlaws even if they were victims first.

But for victimless crimes I don't think they most of the time should even be in prison unless the prison system exists only to create more "real" criminals in the toxic environment.

 

[Revoltingest]

In Canada, the Supreme Court determined that all Canadians, even those who have committed felonies and are incarcerated, retain the right to vote. (With one exception, conviction for corrupt electoral practices can result in loss of vote for a certain period, because this punishment takes aim directly at the offense.)

And when I think about it, really, it makes sense. If part of what you are trying to do is to rehabilitate, then permitting prisoners to take an active part in this important civic duty would seem to be more helpful than harmful.

We should aim for real rehabilitation.
Voting won't do that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think letting'm vote will humanize them.
That once every two years activity won't even begin to
undo what's done to them the other the other 729 days.

It's a smaller piece of the larger puzzle. Nordic systems, for examples, are far more humane, they work with inmates to succeed after their incarceration, and they have a low recidivism rate (admittedly, I don't know specifically about voting). Really, we need to remember inmates are still first and foremost human beings, most who will have to resume the same mundane struggles and challenges of life we all do, such as obtaining income.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Murderers and rapists "chose" to ruin the lives of others, not respecting their "vote"... having them lose the right to vote should be the least in our concerns.

It is a lower concern, true (I would rate abolishing long term isolated confinement as a way higher priority), but it's what the OP is discussing.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's a smaller piece of the larger puzzle. Nordic systems, for examples, are far more humane, they work with inmates to succeed after their incarceration, and they have a low recidivism rate (admittedly, I don't know specifically about voting). Really, we need to remember inmates are still first and foremost human beings, most who will have to resume the same mundane struggles and challenges of life we all do, such as obtaining income.

They're human beings who need more productive treatment.
But they don't need to vote.
Besides....they'd overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.
Bernie wants this for the same reason other Dems
want younger teens to vote.

 

[Audie]

I detect more compassion in you than in your critic.

Perhaps it is just a misunderstanding.

 

[Revoltingest]

Perhaps it is just a misunderstanding.

You're so diplomatic.

 

[Lyndon]

I detect more compassion in you than in your critic.

Coming from you that doesn't say much!!

 

[Audie]

It is a lower concern, true (I would rate abolishing long term isolated confinement as a way higher priority), but it's what the OP is discussing.

I kind of doubt that because the way we treat inmates cost more in the long run because we are very good at dehumanizing inmates and getting them trapped in a vicious cycle of recidivism (that's how the American public as a whole votes). If it were to save money, we'd have to first make sure we are actually saving money by doing what we can to rehabilitate inmates to reduce the chances they end up back in jail/prison.

Hard to think how to write this.
But here goes.

I know what it is to be dehumanized, to see
the look in the eyes of someone
to whom I am just a piece of meat.

Those of us who know how that is will have a different
way of thinking about crime and punishment, than those
who do not.

To me, a person who is capable of that look, that
behaviour is someone to never ever let out
loose again. Ever.

If they are violent with other inmates,then, solitary.
What else could be done?

I am not for anyone receiving "inhumane" treatment,
whatever exactly that is. Just, dont let such people
out again.

Earlier, I half jokingly suggested sending people to
prison in China. Perhaps that is the "lack of
compassion" someone referred to.

Perhaps it was the (horror of) being made to
work in a factory there.

A typical factory job in China will be 16 hour days,
6 days a week, for about 60 cents per hour. Crowded
dormitory, poor food. Hazardous work conditions.

That is for people, usually women, who have
done nothing wrong, who volunteered for it,
traveled many miles for it.

They are there because it is better
than what they left at home. And so they can
send money home, while hoping to change their fate
in the city.

If some roughly equivalent OSHA approved work
is the grim fate of someone who is in an American
prison because they killed someone, or raped them,
well,sorry-ah, I guess my compassion does not quite go
that far.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Besides....they'd overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.

It's not their fault Republicans tend to vote against measures to assist the poor, misfortuned, and under privileged. And Republicans have come to be the "tough on crime" party.

 

[Audie]

You're so diplomatic.

We are hoping for rehab.

 

[Jumi]

It's a smaller piece of the larger puzzle. Nordic systems, for examples, are far more humane, they work with inmates to succeed after their incarceration, and they have a low recidivism rate (admittedly, I don't know specifically about voting). Really, we need to remember inmates are still first and foremost human beings, most who will have to resume the same mundane struggles and challenges of life we all do, such as obtaining income.

Our inmates and mental hospital patients can vote if they are citizens(since 1972), which a lot of the inmates aren't... being citizens of other countries. So if they vote, they vote on their own country's elections and rules. The prison population isn't large enough group to matter so not many people care if they vote or not. I don't think many of them care about it either. I found some news that 50% of inmates voted in our presidential elections even though it's like a free activity and easy as could be.

The amount of inmates and criminals in Nordic countries is so low that even if they all voted for the same person, they wouldn't get a voice in. Back when we had larger amount of criminals they also didn't have a vote.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If they are violent with other inmates,then, solitary.
What else could be done?

Long term isolated confinement destroys a mind. It's extremely inhumane and barbarous, as humans just are not meant for more than brief periods of isolation. It's use only demonstrates we're willing to sink just as low and be terribly cruel.

To me, a person who is capable of that look, that
behaviour is someone who never ever be let out
loose again. Ever.

Giving a certain look is not a crime, nor should it be.

Hard to think how to write this. I know what it is to be
dehumanized, see the look in the eyes of someone
to whom I am just a piece of meat.

Jail and prison society and culture is not mainstream society and culture. I really wouldn't even call it a sub-culture, as it's very removed from mainstream society, and the rules, customs, and norms are very different. Being looked at like a piece of meat just is not the same as being treated as an animal, a piece of property with very little autonomy or control, and finding that now you're a number.

 

[Revoltingest]

Coming from you that doesn't say much!!

As one with little compassion, I'm better able to judge others.
You judge her on the basis of not being in your tribe.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's not their fault Republicans tend to vote against measures to assist the poor, misfortuned, and under privileged. And Republicans have come to be the "tough on crime" party.

Republicans help lesser folk in a different way....more in
economic liberty than handouts (which create dependency).
And Dems are also tough on crime, albeit selectively.
Not so tough on illegal entry to the country at the moment.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Republicans help lesser folk in a different way....more in
economic liberty than handouts (which create dependency).

Economic liberty doesn't mean much when you don't have much for economic opportunity - or, the reason Indiana loses about half of all its college grads (engineers leave the most, with 75% of those grads leaving). Sure, it's a very business friendly state, but if you don't own a business there is a very real chance you won't find work. Its tax laws benefit those who make under a certain amount per month doing their own thing, but they tax the income of the working poor more than they do in California.

 

[Revoltingest]

Economic liberty doesn't mean much when you don't have much for economic opportunity - or, the reason Indiana loses about half of all its college grads (engineers leave the most, with 75% of those grads leaving). Sure, it's a very business friendly state, but if you don't own a business there is a very real chance you won't find work. Its tax laws benefit those who make under a certain amount per month doing their own thing, but they tax the income of the working poor more than they do in California.

Economic liberty means a great deal to anyone wanting a strong economy or
to start a business. Sure, sure, it doesn't provide the immediate relief of just
giving them money. But the long term effects are better. But all that partisan
stuff aside, a combination of both offers more potential for success.

 

[Audie]

Long term isolated confinement destroys a mind. It's extremely inhumane and barbarous, as humans just are not meant for more than brief periods of isolation. It's use only demonstrates we're willing to sink just as low and be terribly cruel.

Giving a certain look is not a crime, nor should it be.

Jail and prison society and culture is not mainstream society and culture. I really wouldn't even call it a sub-culture, as it's very removed from mainstream society, and the rules, customs, and norms are very different. Being looked at like a piece of meat just is not the same as being treated as an animal, a piece of property with very little autonomy or control, and finding that now you're a number.

Well, as I said, it affects one's perspective.

The look I referred to went with the action.
Anyone who can do such things should never be
let out, whether they had this expression, or that.

Whatever sick pleasure he took hurting me,
I dont advocate revenge, eye for eye
cruelty.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Economic liberty means a great deal to anyone wanting a strong economy or
to start a business. Sure, sure, it doesn't provide the immediate relief of just
giving them money. But the long term effects are better. But all that partisan
stuff aside, a combination of both offers more potential for success.

You need the opportunities or the liberty won't get you much. Indiana provides the liberty, but it doesn't provide the opportunity and people leave the state. I can even bring up music, where despite Indiana pumping out some of the biggest names ever they end up going to Detroit, Chicago, or even LA to get discovered. Cole Porter was known for Hollywood pieces, Micheal Jackson really wasn't associated with the state, and Guns 'n Roses (Axl Rose) are Sunset Strip rock rather than Heartland rock.
Pence says there is nothing more ennobling than a job, but the jobs he did manage to bring to the state as governor where jobs that you can train a monkey to do.