I believe in God. I do not know that I am right.
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Believing and Knowing. They are different!
- Thread starter savagewind
- Start date
PureX
Veteran Member
Some authoritarian religions teach that faith is the pretense of knowledge. That is to have "faith" is to blindly presume to know that your God is God, and no other. But that isn't faith, it's willful deception. It's dishonesty masquerading as "faith".
I know that some people interpret Psalm 14:1 as though it means that a person must accept the fact that God exists as they imagine.
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
A fool hath said in his heart, 'God is not;' They have done corruptly, They have done abominable actions, There is not a doer of good.
But what I think it means is that they do not put God in their heart.
A person can believe without reservation that God exists but if he hasn't let God dwell in him, in his heart to lead him Psalms 14:1 applies to him.
It is the difference between convincing himself that God exists in his mind and calling on God to lead him by heart.
Someone who believes "in" God but is not convinced of God's ability to lead him is a fool. In my opinion, but only because David says so.
I could go off track here. I don't think I will.
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.
A fool hath said in his heart, 'God is not;' They have done corruptly, They have done abominable actions, There is not a doer of good.
But what I think it means is that they do not put God in their heart.
A person can believe without reservation that God exists but if he hasn't let God dwell in him, in his heart to lead him Psalms 14:1 applies to him.
It is the difference between convincing himself that God exists in his mind and calling on God to lead him by heart.
Someone who believes "in" God but is not convinced of God's ability to lead him is a fool. In my opinion, but only because David says so.
I could go off track here. I don't think I will.
It seems to me that some people have to convince themselves that they know God for God to be able to help them. But belief is what is needed, imo.
........along with time and attention.
........along with time and attention.
But knowledge is also fallible.
Chuang Tzu and a Confucian scholar were walking near a pond.
Chuang Tzu remarked "The fish must derive such great joy from swimming around like they do!!"
The scholar rebuffed "You are not a fish, so you cannot know what brings joy to a fish!!"
Chuang Tzu responded "You are not me, so you cannot know that I don't know what brings joy to a fish!!"
Chuang Tzu remarked "The fish must derive such great joy from swimming around like they do!!"
The scholar rebuffed "You are not a fish, so you cannot know what brings joy to a fish!!"
Chuang Tzu responded "You are not me, so you cannot know that I don't know what brings joy to a fish!!"
Yes?
If knowledge is fallible, can the reverse of your statement "I know that I am right" be applicable to anything at all? Thus the point you are trying to make in the OP, that the difference between belief and knowledge rests on knowing that a belief is right and not knowing it is right or not does not seem to hold.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
When I first believed I didn't know I was right. But now I do because He has confirmed it to me by His spirit.
It's a very interesting question on whether or not one can truly know anything. I mean observation and evidence can only get you so far, since what if you're just dreaming right now??
There are people who say, "no, you cannot truly know anything at all." But that then begs the question... "How do you know that you cannot know anything??"
I always loved the somewhat trollish answer the Taoists gave to this question. To the effect of: "I don't know if it is possible to know anything."
There are people who say, "no, you cannot truly know anything at all." But that then begs the question... "How do you know that you cannot know anything??"
I always loved the somewhat trollish answer the Taoists gave to this question. To the effect of: "I don't know if it is possible to know anything."
Sorry then. Could you expand upon your point?
This is you admitting that you know God's Spirit. I don't believe you.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Rather, God's Spirit knows me. If you're not a Christian there is probably no way you'd believe me.
I understand that the brain is wonderful and not understood much. I think that the brain is able to imagine that God is real and even make discoveries for it.
I never know if I'm 100% right. I just test when I can. Research to the best of my ability and try to make an informed decision. This gives me some level of confidence of being right. The more testing the more research the more confidence.
From the testing I've done and the personal research I've done, I've a very low confidence in any particular God's existence.
I am. But then you are not aware of what is written about the liar.
If you do not believe what is written about it then um how can you be so sure about God?
I think you are talking about feeling right. I am talking about being right.
In fact, I trust that if God is The God that I believe in, rightness belongs only to That One.
You are convinced you are right. I think that knowing is more than feelings and being convinced.
I am also convinced of God. I still do not know that I am right.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
According to Paul I'm no liar and all Christians have the gift of the Holy Spirit:
Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
He was talking to Christians in general, not a specific few so I conclude he is saying that all Christians have the Spirit.