Belief and Imagination

[Workman]

Whatever is rational to believe based on independend demonstrable evidence.

Facts do not tell us how to live!
Nor it says what how to avoid problems!..how can you explain how to avoid problems through facts

 

[Workman]

It’s difference with facts and beliefs in God is that God teaches how to avoid problems...

How does facts teach us to avoid problems?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So in other words your saying to believe in facts?
Something that is not alive..and your saying to worship that?

I have no idea what you are talking about and even less what you mean by "worshipping facts". Sounds just bizar....

You disagreed with my post concerning faith.
I replied by saying that the facts don't disagree. The facts agree with what I posted about "faith".

Yes, it is factually true that you can believe ANYTHING "on faith". There is nothing you can't believe on faith. Since believing on faith literally means to believe something that you can't show to be accurate, to believe something on bad or no evidence. That's literally what it is.

So evidence is out the window - it's not important.
When evidence isn't important, you can literally believe ANYTHING.
When evidence IS important, then you can not. Since at that point you can't believe things that are supported by either bad evidence or even worse: by no evidence at all
But if evidence doesn't matter, then you can believe anything.


That's one.

Secondly, such "faith" DOES have the gruesome ability of making people do the most horrible things imaginable, while them thinking that they are actually doing good.

Like islamist suicide terrorists.
They honestly believe they fight the good fight and are doing their religious moral duty.
Such insanity is something that, again, can only be believed on faith.


You can post your poorly argued one-liner saying "i disagree" all you want, but the facts are what they are.
And the facts agree with my statements.

 

[Workman]

I have no idea what you are talking about and even less what you mean by "worshipping facts". Sounds just bizar....

You disagreed with my post concerning faith.
I replied by saying that the facts don't disagree. The facts agree with what I posted about "faith".

Yes, it is factually true that you can believe ANYTHING "on faith". There is nothing you can't believe on faith. Since believing on faith literally means to believe something that you can't show to be accurate, to believe something on bad or no evidence. That's literally what it is.

So evidence is out the window - it's not important.
When evidence isn't important, you can literally believe ANYTHING.
When evidence IS important, then you can not. Since at that point you can't believe things that are supported by either bad evidence or even worse: by no evidence at all
But if evidence doesn't matter, then you can believe anything.


That's one.

Secondly, such "faith" DOES have the gruesome ability of making people do the most horrible things imaginable, while them thinking that they are actually doing good.

Like islamist suicide terrorists.
They honestly believe they fight the good fight and are doing their religious moral duty.
Such insanity is something that, again, can only be believed on faith.


You can post your poorly argued one-liner saying "i disagree" all you want, but the facts are what they are.
And the facts agree with my statements.

Are you saying believing has nothing to do with worshiping..guess again genius!!!!

 

[Shantanu]

are belief and imagination necessarily a negative thing??

or can they in fact be helpful and healthy?

They are a source of information that needs to be subjected to scrutiny to prevent one from acquiring delusions.

 

[Workman]

Taglia..you need to back to your lab and find out more how faith works..you’ve got all this wrong!!
Faith, believe, worship..they all work together...

Now back to my question..how can faith in facts teach morals..or avoiding problems in life or tell our purposes in living?

If you can’t answer this or give some proofs from facts?? About this? Then who are you to tell us to believe in facts?

 

[Workman]

This is what happens when you spend to much time in the Lab..
You forget to live like a normal human being in its nature

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Your owned by facts is your truth..which means you are a thing not a person..A THING

You're literally making no sense at all here..

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You don’t even know how you came about to being alive!

My parents had sex.
Didn't you learn about that in high school?

..and all a sudden you know everything there is

Where and when did I say anything even remotely like that?

From facts?

Facts inform you about reality, yes.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Tell me what is the truth of our purpose of being?

Is there even such a purpose?
I don't know if there is.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Facts do not tell us how to live!

Sure they do.

For example, the facts tell us that eating McDonalds everyday is detrimental to your health.
So the facts inform us that it's better to go for a more varried diet.

Nor it says what how to avoid problems!

Sure it does. Like the example above. You avoid health problems by not eating at McDonalds everyday.

..how can you explain how to avoid problems through facts

Because the facts inform us about how reality works.
How do you expect to avoid problems of any kind, if you have no understanding of how reality works?
The problems can only be understood and recognised, if you have the required information to do so.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It’s difference with facts and beliefs in God is that God teaches how to avoid problems...

Which god(s) and which teachings? Because they all teach different things - and many of them are wrong.

How does facts teach us to avoid problems?

As said already, because facts teach us about reality. And understanding reality is step one in recognising (potential) problems. And only then can you rationally go about avoiding them.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Are you saying believing has nothing to do with worshiping..guess again genius!!!!

It indeed has nothing to do with worshipping.

I believe that if I let go of my keys, they'll fall to the ground and not float off into space.
That doesn't mean or imply that I "worship" gravity.


What a weird thing to say..................................

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Taglia..you need to back to your lab and find out more how faith works..you’ve got all this wrong!!
Faith, believe, worship..they all work together...

They factually don't.
Just because you happen to equate them, doesn't mean they are the same or connected.

Look the 3 words up in a dictionary.

Now back to my question..how can faith in facts teach morals

1. facts don't require "faith"
2. moral reasoning requires accurate information. You can't make moral evaluations of actions, if you don't understand what the consequences of those actions are. I'll give an example....

Suppose there is a room with in the middle a push button. There is no indication what it does, there are no wires or anything, but it looks like a light switch. Is pushing the button immoral?

How about when you know that in the room next to it, there is a guy strapped to an electric chair who'll get electrocuted when you push the button. Is it now immoral to push the button?

See? How can you make moral evaluations of actions, if you don't know what the consequences of those actions are? And how can you know / understand what the consequences of actions are, unless you have access to or knowledge of the facts that inform you on what the consequences are?

I say you can't. This is literally what drives moral development.... The gathering of more information / facts. We learn more facts and by extension we understand reality better. Improving understanding of reality, makes you better comprehend the consequences of actions. In turn, what previously (in our ignorance) wasn't perceived as immoral, will be perceived as immoral after we learn about facts that inform us as such.

If you can’t answer this or give some proofs from facts?? About this? Then who are you to tell us to believe in facts?

A rational person who understands that comprehending reality is step 1.

So, are you saying you "don't believe" in facts?
Do you accept that if you have 2 apples and add 2 more apples that you'll end up with 4 apples?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This is what happens when you spend to much time in the Lab..
You forget to live like a normal human being in its nature

I'm not a scientist and the only time I've spend in a "lab" was during chemistry class in highschool.

Try again, and this time without badly hidden ad hominims.

 

[Workman]

I'm not a scientist and the only time I've spend in a "lab" was during chemistry class in highschool.

Try again, and this time without badly hidden ad hominims.

Lol...so all this time I had you owned with words of confusion to your understanding ..and your faith has turned..by giving me your respect with replying to my words I had placed in front of you with its confusion, while you had given your faith and respect with replies..all that didn’t matter at all to me.(and that’s the difference with you and me..I can control me subjective).I was having dinner with family..do you understand now how faith works..that is from your subjective reacting in anger for a confusion..and your ego builded..you gave up your moment of freedom because a thought of my words have directed your faith back towards me...that is how faith works..your to much faith on facts has lead your subjective WIDE open..and you don’t know how to control it..it’s why you’ve sacrificed your own time in anger to reply to something that is confusing..all along I did it on purpose to make you react to your subjective!..this is why I said..God will teach one how to learn to avoid these kind of agitation.

And like You say..faith can be anything(because you made it anything, was your mistake)
And like I said God teaches one how NOT to direct its faith towards something that it cannot control..and you’ve shown a good example of it..from believing what you think..this was a TEST for your arrogance. and you were my experiment!.because facts do not tell you these things..you failed. Btw!! Dinner was delicious!..

 

[Workman]

Lol...so all this time I owned you with my words..and your faith you have given me respect by replying to my words I placed in front of you with confusion...lol, while you were giving my your faith with replies..all this didn’t really matter to me..I was having dinner with family..do you understand now how faith works..that is from your subjective reacting in anger for a confusion..and your ego builded..you gave up your moment of freedom because a thought of my words have directed your faith back towards me...that is how faith works

Now go back to your lab..and work out subjective..and how it works..and I might reply back to you after my Beauty sleep

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Lol...so all this time I had you owned with words of confusion to your understanding ..and your faith has turned..by giving me your respect with replying to my words I had placed in front of you with its confusion, while you had given your faith and respect with replies..all that didn’t matter at all to me.(and that’s the difference with you and me..I can control me subjective)

Talking about confusing.... that sentence was quite confusing.
No idea what you are saying. Seems very random and nonsensical.

I was having dinner with family..do you understand now how faith works..that is from your subjective reacting in anger for a confusion..and your ego builded..you gave up your moment of freedom because a thought of my words have directed your faith back towards me...that is how faith works..your to much faith on facts has lead your subjective WIDE open..and you don’t know how to control it..it’s why you’ve sacrificed your own time in anger to reply to something that is confusing..all along I did it on purpose to make you react to your subjective!..this is why I said..God will teach one how to learn to avoid these kind of agitation.

And the confusion chaotic randomness and word salad just continues....

And like You say..faith can be anything(because you made it anything, was your mistake)
And like I said God teaches one how NOT to direct its faith towards something that it cannot control..and you’ve shown a good example of it..from believing what you think..this was a TEST for your arrogance. and you were my experiment!.because facts do not tell you these things..you failed. Btw!! Dinner was delicious!..

...

I don't even know how to respond to any of this.
Seems like gibberish.

Are you feeling okay?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Now go back to your lab..and work out subjective..and how it works..and I might reply back to you after my Beauty sleep

Try rephrasing everything you just wrote in such a way that it actually makes some sense.

Also, perhaps stop replying to yourself....
Did you know that posts have an "edit" function? I suggest you start using it.

 

[Workman]

Try rephrasing everything you just wrote in such a way that it actually makes some sense.

Also, perhaps stop replying to yourself....
Did you know that posts have an "edit" function? I suggest you start using it.

Work on your subjective buddy..
Don’t react to its agitation..live a bit