"Begotten", what does it mean?

[muhammad_isa]

If you want to talk about Jesus being God, show me in the Bible where I am wrong..

I don't need a Bible to realise that if G-d has a daughter or a son .. or a mother or father .. then G-d is a family of gods .. and not One.

You might want to claim that begotten in this context, means [insert your definition here]. Whatever.

This notion of begotten was decided to be "the truth" in an ecumenical council arranged by a Roman Emperor. The same emperor who died as an Arian, I might add.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Begat
verb
LITERARY
past participle: begotten

1. (especially of a man) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
   
   
2. cause; bring about.

Reproduction being the key word.


Now the question is where God's Wife has gone to?

 

[blü 2]

I was asked by a fellow member to explain the word "Begotten" about Jesus in the Bible, because somehow it is a very bad word?

Will, I promised I will discuss this word on another thread, and here it is.

The Christian knows that Jesus is the only Begotten Son of God, and accepts this as fact, but they never question the meaning of how and what this means.

But we can not discuss this concept if we do not have the verses about Jesus being begotten and being the Son of God.
Here are a few.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

OK, so lets see. The word monogenes means "only" (mono) "kind" (genes) (also child)
It is very close to modern words where we know Mono, as one such as "Monotheism" and genes such as genes in DNA.
one, only kind child.

We find it in the OT also:
In Hebrews 11:17 Isaac is called Abraham’s "only begotten son" (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant. Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.

Now that we have the verses, and the meaning, lets get the context.

In the beginning, we see a description that God had a Mind (Word), a Spirit, and an existence living body covered with light. The Spirit of God left the existence of YHWH and hovered above the waters, which means the Spirit could enter into the creation of YHWH.
We also see that the Spirit of YHWH, or as we know Him as the Holy Spirit of God, could come onto people and make their bodies change, such as Samson that became super strong as soon as the Spirit intered his body.
The Spirit came upon Elisha when Elijah annointed him, and he could do magnificent miracles.
Therefore, the Spirit of YHWH can come into creation, and change the human body!

Now we have a description in John about the "Word of God" who was with God in the beginning, and this Word of God created everything.

And God sent His Spirit to Mary and changed her body to become pregnant without intercourse, just as this Spirit changed human attributes before, and a human body was created in Mary, with the "Word of God" in it, which is the Mind of God.
This human was born, and became known as Jesus.
This is the reason why God calls Jesus His only begotten Son.
Jesus was created in the body of Mary by the Holy Spirit of God.
and God's Word left the existence of YHWH, and entered the fetus.

Now, take into consideration:
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Conclusion.
God had to save his creation from death, because we are all just dying corpses, and to do that God Himself sent his Mind, that became a Human, to live amongst us.
This is why Christians believe Jesus is God, and why He came as a Human to die!
To be the first to attain an immortal body for us all to follow in this way to eternity.

Therefore, what would you call someone that had a human body, that was created, just as Adam's body, but had the mind of God dwelling in that Body.

One of a Kind, or
Only Begotten Son.

You need to sort out your NT authors ─ Paul and the authors of the gospels.

The Jesuses of Paul and of John pre-existed in heaven with God. It follows that they were created by God rather than begotten by God. In neither case are we told of their parentage, but since each is said to be descended from David, it seems fair to assume they were born to ordinary Jewish parents, and again not begotten by God.

The Jesus of Mark is NOT God's begotten son. He's an ordinary Jew, whose birth was not attended by portents, angels, stars, or the like. He only becomes the son of God when immediately on his baptism, God adopts him as [his] son, on the model of Psalm 2:7 where God adopts David as his son (affirmed Acts 13:33).

When we get to the Jesuses of Matthew and Luke, the story is different. In each case Jesus is the result of the divine insemination of a virgin and accordingly each has God's Y-chromosome.

So we can say that according to the NT, two of the five principal versions of Jesus were begotten by God and the other three were not.

If we approach the matter democratically, that would mean by majority that Jesus was not begotten by God.

If the churches want to say different to the NT, well, who's to stop them or cheer them on? I guess they'll continue to say what they like.

 

[SA Huguenot]

I don't need a Bible to realise that if G-d has a daughter or a son .. or a mother or father .. then G-d is a family of gods .. and not One.

You might want to claim that begotten in this context, means [insert your definition here]. Whatever.

This notion of begotten was decided to be "the truth" in an ecumenical council arranged by a Roman Emperor. The same emperor who died as an Arian, I might add.

Again,
I dont care for the Roman Emperors, they were much too late to have known the Trinity existed since creation, and the Bible described YHWH as a Trinity.
Your idea that God cant have a daughter or a son, a family, is the distorted view of Muhammad and Muslim scholars.
No where in the Bible does it say what you want it to be.

Lets see what the Bible say, no one else, and your argument falls like the walls of Jericho.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Reproduction being the key word.


Now the question is where God's Wife has gone to?

Again, a total untrue opinion without any grounds in the Bible.
Show me where in the bible does it say God has a wife where He procreated.
Nowhere!
What I see is the Spirit of God changeing mary and creating a human fetus without a male act, and the Word of Jesus entering this body.

Anything else is just you imply is just not there.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Your idea that God cant have a daughter or a son, a family, is the distorted view of Muhammad and Muslim scholars.

No it isn't.
Jewish creeds say the same thing, and Jesus was a Jew.

How can there be only One Creator, while being "a family of gods" ?
Adam and Eve started a family, and look at mankind now .. lots of us.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Show me where in the bible does it say God has a wife where He procreated.

It doesn't. G-d does not procreate .. so begotten is not a good way of describing the nature of Jesus.

 

[Soapy]

I don't need a Bible to realise that if G-d has a daughter or a son .. or a mother or father .. then G-d is a family of gods .. and not One.

You might want to claim that begotten in this context, means [insert your definition here]. Whatever.

This notion of begotten was decided to be "the truth" in an ecumenical council arranged by a Roman Emperor. The same emperor who died as an Arian, I might add.

Didn’t he change to trinitarian just before he died … just in case it was true?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Again, a total untrue opinion without any grounds in the Bible.
Show me where in the bible does it say God has a wife where He procreated.
Nowhere!
What I see is the Spirit of God changeing mary and creating a human fetus without a male act, and the Word of Jesus entering this body.

Anything else is just you imply is just not there.

Then Mary is God's Wife.

Otherwise Jesus is an illegitimate child.

 

[ChristineM]

Then Mary is God's Wife.

Otherwise Jesus is an illegitimate child.

Old news ;-)

 

[SA Huguenot]

You need to sort out your NT authors ─ Paul and the authors of the gospels.

The Jesuses of Paul and of John pre-existed in heaven with God. It follows that they were created by God rather than begotten by God. In neither case are we told of their parentage, but since each is said to be descended from David, it seems fair to assume they were born to ordinary Jewish parents, and again not begotten by God.

The Jesus of Mark is NOT God's begotten son. He's an ordinary Jew, whose birth was not attended by portents, angels, stars, or the like. He only becomes the son of God when immediately on his baptism, God adopts him as [his] son, on the model of Psalm 2:7 where God adopts David as his son (affirmed Acts 13:33).

When we get to the Jesuses of Matthew and Luke, the story is different. In each case Jesus is the result of the divine insemination of a virgin and accordingly each has God's Y-chromosome.

So we can say that according to the NT, two of the five principal versions of Jesus were begotten by God and the other three were not.

If we approach the matter democratically, that would mean by majority that Jesus was not begotten by God.

If the churches want to say different to the NT, well, who's to stop them or cheer them on? I guess they'll continue to say what they like.

Ah, another analysis where comparisons were taken to show that somehow Mathew and Luke are in contrast to the origins of Jesus than Mark and also of John.

Your summary is:

• Matthew and Mark spoke of Jesus as a result of divine insemination, and not of the pre existence of Jesus.
• John speaks of the pre existence of Jesus, and say nothing about the virgin conception, but you accept that Jesus must have been a descendent of Adam, thereby the Son of God.
• Mark does not say Jesus is the only begotten son of God, but an ordinary Jew.
• You also bring Paul into the equation, to get the numerical value in opposition to the Virgin birth to 2 against 3.

OK, so you agree that:

• Matthew and Mark say Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

Here we have 2 votes for AYE!

• Jou say John does not speak about Jesus' virgin conception, and therefore Jesus must have been a son of God through normal human act, but you obviously never read the Bible! Please read John 3:16! For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

OK, so now we have 3 votes for AYE!

• You say mark perceives Jesus as a normal Jew.
  • Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; well, why would Mark say Jesus is the Son of God, and not Jesus the son of Adam?
  • And Why would Mark write that Jesus is his beloved son? Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And again in 9:7?
  • And why would Mrk write that even Deamons knew Jesus was the Holy one of God? Mar 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Mar 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
  • And Mark identify Jesus as the Son of God again? Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
    
  • and do not forget mark 14: 61 to 64 where Jesus was condemned as the Son of God, equalling himself to God for which the learned Jewish priests understood exactly what he said.

And from the above it is clear that Mark says, Jesus is the Son of God, and writes about the divinity of Jesus
Now we have 4 votes for AYE!

OK, Now we sit with paul.
You say "The Jesuses of Paul and of John pre-existed in heaven with God. It follows that they were created by God rather than begotten by God."

Funny that you would make Jesus a plural, be as it may. lets see what paul in the Bible say.

• Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
• Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
  
• Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
  

Oh Golly, they all speak about one Jesus...
who is God...
who lived in a human body.

Enjoy Jesus Christ, the Word of God that was manifested in flesh as a man.
Greetings

 

[SA Huguenot]

Then Mary is God's Wife.

Otherwise Jesus is an illegitimate child.

Yip, the illegitemate Child of John, but the only begotten son of God.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nope, you got the meaning of Begat.
You should go and search homogenis.
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship" and "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind".
From WIKI.
anyhow, it has more to do with a special relationship, uniquness etc.

"Begotten" means "made by ****ing," more or less.

 

[SA Huguenot]

It doesn't. G-d does not procreate .. so begotten is not a good way of describing the nature of Jesus.

Your opinion does not count on what the apostles wrote 2 000 years ago.
Muhamads' opinion also does not count.
Sorry pal, only the Bible is the authority on the Trinity and God.
Not you, Islam, the Quran, the pope...No One!

 

[Etritonakin]

I was asked by a fellow member to explain the word "Begotten" about Jesus in the Bible, because somehow it is a very bad word?

Will, I promised I will discuss this word on another thread, and here it is.


Therefore, what would you call someone that had a human body, that was created, just as Adam's body, but had the mind of God dwelling in that Body.

One of a Kind, or
Only Begotten Son.

In technical terms, the Word/Christ is the Father's first self-replication (existing/developing from part of him -similar to Eve being of Adam's material, but on the spiritual level).

Christ is also called "the firstborn of many brethren" -as we are also made of part of God.

 

[Soapy]

Aren’t the holy Angels, ‘Sons of God’ (Gen 6:2)?

These are SPIRIT / Immaterial Sons of God.

God is the Father of Spirits’ (Hebrews 12:9)

A human Being is a Spirit made by God encased in flesh (‘And God made [the body of a] man and blew into his nostril the breath of life (Spirit) … and [together] the man became a LIVING Soul’ (Gen 2:7)

Wasn’t Adam also ‘Son of God’ (Luke 3:38)?

He was a Physical / Human Son of God created not by procreation from another human [Father] but directly by the Spirit of God.

Jesus, the Christ (after he was baptised), was, like Adam, created not by procreation from another human [Father] but directly by the spirit of God.
He is therefore called, ‘The Last Adam’ (1 Cor 15:45), since no other human Being will ever be created that way.

Oh, by the way, Jesus being ‘Sent’ by God to do God’s work was AFTER he was anointed at the river Jordan and tested by temptation in the wilderness. He was SENT after he passed the trial of holding to the office of ‘Son of God’.

AND… to get the true definition - a ‘Son’ is:

• ‘He who fully and reverently carries out the works of his Father’
• ‘He who follows the spirit of God’

This is a Spiritual Son. A true Son. A true ‘Son’ need not be a procreated child. Even a stranger child who carries out fully and reverently the works given to him by a senior person is a ‘Son’ of that person.

The everyday usage of the term ‘Son’ as being a procreated offspring of a Father is what holds the masses from understanding the true meaning.

Adam was Son of God because, until he fell to sin, he did strictly, reverently, and fully, follow the spirit of God and do the works of his God and Father.

The Apostle Paul, while in prison in chains is said to BEGET a son, Onesimus (Philemon 1). Note that this BEGETTING was not a procreation and Paul was not a human Father of Onesimus. Onesimus was a runaway slave who Paul took as his own son since Onesimus fully, faithfully, and reverentially carried out all the works that Paul directed him to do from his jail cell.

 

[sojourner]

You need to sort out your NT authors ─ Paul and the authors of the gospels.

The Jesuses of Paul and of John pre-existed in heaven with God. It follows that they were created by God rather than begotten by God. In neither case are we told of their parentage, but since each is said to be descended from David, it seems fair to assume they were born to ordinary Jewish parents, and again not begotten by God.

The Jesus of Mark is NOT God's begotten son. He's an ordinary Jew, whose birth was not attended by portents, angels, stars, or the like. He only becomes the son of God when immediately on his baptism, God adopts him as [his] son, on the model of Psalm 2:7 where God adopts David as his son (affirmed Acts 13:33).

When we get to the Jesuses of Matthew and Luke, the story is different. In each case Jesus is the result of the divine insemination of a virgin and accordingly each has God's Y-chromosome.

So we can say that according to the NT, two of the five principal versions of Jesus were begotten by God and the other three were not.

If we approach the matter democratically, that would mean by majority that Jesus was not begotten by God.

If the churches want to say different to the NT, well, who's to stop them or cheer them on? I guess they'll continue to say what they like.

John says that God became flesh. That comes closer to “begotten” than “created.” Additionally, church Tradition says that Christ was “begotten, not made.” Historically, doctrine is founded upon both scripture and Tradition.

 

[Soapy]

John says that God became flesh. That comes closer to “begotten” than “created.” Additionally, church Tradition says that Christ was “begotten, not made.” Historically, doctrine is founded upon both scripture and Tradition.

Please you explain how only one part of the trinity God became flesh when the trinity God is not composed of parts?

And how did Jesus empty himself of being God yet remained being God?

 

[sojourner]

Then Mary is God's Wife.

Otherwise Jesus is an illegitimate child.

Then Mary is God's Wife.

Otherwise Jesus is an illegitimate child.

Bingo! Take a close look at Matthew’s Gospel. Tamar, Rahab (prostitutes), Ruth (foreigner), all “illegitimate” in the eyes of Judaic law.

 

[sojourner]

Please you explain how only one part of the trinity God became flesh when the trinity God is not composed of parts?

And how did Jesus empty himself of being God yet remained being God?

Straw man. There are no “parts.”